Uranium Power

[Speadge]

could u please alter ur "fastpumps" to have a base-area of 20 to support bobs pipes with 20 units/tile?

[Fatmice]

Explain? Why do I need to change the base area of the pumping entity for it to work with 20units-pipe? It should just connect with the pipe no?

Also, I just watched a bunch of videos from Nilaus. Two things of note, actually three, but the first two:
1/ I might need to add a way to make water without the need for off-shore pumps...It appears that people are having a lot of issues with water throughput in pipes...
2/ I need to write a better description for some of the entities as well as a disclaimer for the ones that can not be blueprinted.

[slaxer]

[Fatmice]

I see you already exploited the mod. That's some impossibly high specific heat.

[Nilaus]

Explain? Why do I need to change the base area of the pumping entity for it to work with 20units-pipe? It should just connect with the pipe no?

Also, I just watched a bunch of videos from Nilaus. Two things of note, actually three, but the first two:
1/ I might need to add a way to make water without the need for off-shore pumps...It appears that people are having a lot of issues with water throughput in pipes...
2/ I need to write a better description for some of the entities as well as a disclaimer for the ones that can not be blueprinted.

Is that a friendly way of saying that I don't get it That being said I did struggle a lot with feeding enough water. In Bob's Mods the ground water pump is gone so it needs to be piped from a lake. This (as you know) is my nemesis; worse than biters and trees: water mechanics in Factorio

[Light]

I personally use this as the replacement for the convenience of ground water pumps, since water patches aren't available anymore.
https://mods.factorio.com/mods/binbinhfr/WaterWell

Provides a constant strong flow of water at the cost of electricity and pollution, but saves a lot of headache of trying to transport water over long distances with underground pipes.

[Fatmice]

Is that a friendly way of saying that I don't get it That being said I did struggle a lot with feeding enough water. In Bob's Mods the ground water pump is gone so it needs to be piped from a lake. This (as you know) is my nemesis; worse than biters and trees: water mechanics in Factorio

Getting it or not is hardly the issue, though I had a good laugh when you were bumbling through.

Regardless, the water issue should not be a hindrance for the mod. It already has a reputation of being complex and hard to learn, which is hardly false. However, I think it shouldn't be that way. If anything it should be easy to learn and hard to master, which is a difficult thing to do right. Thus, if there are things that I can do to make it easier to learn then I should. Some better descriptions and disclaimers are low hanging fruits that I can do immediately. The next thing is making ghosts on the ground when the mod detects that you are randomly trying to place things, which is when people are frustrated and need some help. The last thing is a GUI for the reactor with some helpful information and maybe a "Hint" button if people are still scratching their heads.

I personally use this as the replacement for the convenience of ground water pumps, since water patches aren't available anymore.
https://mods.factorio.com/mods/binbinhfr/WaterWell

Provides a constant strong flow of water at the cost of electricity and pollution, but saves a lot of headache of trying to transport water over long distances with underground pipes.

Yes, water options. It's simple really but I don't feel like just adding an assembler and a recipe to make water. How boring.
I think I will add two options, a passive and an active.

Passive option: It is a storage tank with a inventory. You will fill the inventory with some item(s) that will allow you to make water. It works better at night, less so during the dawn and dusk period, and hardly during the day. As it makes water, the item will slowly, *very slowly*, wears out. If the chunk where you are making water is even slightly polluted, it will negatively impact the amount of water that you make; the impact is small at first but grows exponentially with the pollution value of the chunk ( this means I will make sure that you place the storage tank and its inventory in the same chunk). In addition, the item(s) that allowed you to make water will wear out proportionally faster. The ratio between pollution's impact on water production and item wear is TBD. Once the item wears out completely, it will stop making water and you must regenerate the item. The technology for this is early game so it won't be something too exotic and onerous.

Active option: Same behavior and requirements as the passive option but needs energy input, a healthy amount. It will make water regardless of game time and lots of it. You shouldn't need more than a few...maybe one is all that you'll need for four 3x3 reactors and their subordinates.

Finally, a utility option to barrel water and bypass the pipe-throughput issues. This way you can centrally make water in a pollution free area and ship the water to where you need!

[Fatmice]

could u please alter ur "fastpumps" to have a base-area of 20 to support bobs pipes with 20 units/tile?

What were you on about?
http://imgur.com/a/COVQN

Bob's pipes do not have the throughput of my fast pump so there is no reason to alter the base-area of the pump. All that does is make it stores more liquid before it will pump.

[slaxer]

fatmice, i wish you'd quit/finish your education and develop assembly machines / chemical plants with more than 2 inputs&outputs and recreate all reprocessing techniques available INSTEAD

[Fatmice]

Calling Angel's and Bob's mod player.

I need the minimum list of these two mods so that I can test them. Apparently mineral sludge is giving absurd amounts of fluorite and uraninite. I can not test because either one of them do not play nice. I guess Angel's is the culprit....

[afk2minute]

What do you mean by "minimal list"?

I just began playing with these 2 mods and yours mod.
It can be a long time before i get to uranium power, but once i do, ill make a report.

[Light]

Calling Angel's and Bob's mod player.

I need the minimum list of these two mods so that I can test them. Apparently mineral sludge is giving absurd amounts of fluorite and uraninite. I can not test because either one of them do not play nice. I guess Angel's is the culprit....

Just to note, mineral sludge creates any ore you want at a rather slow pace, but with a sizable Angel's sorting setup these ores can stack up quite rapidly over a period of time.
I've found that fluorite is generally burned extremely slowly compared to uraninite, so this method is often clogged up with fluorite and quite inefficient after a couple hours to begin with.

All you require is angels refining to obtain the slag required to make mineral sludge.

Edit: Testing my own setup, the ore sorting creates 90 of each ore per minute + 114/m of each ore from the mineral slurry line.
This isn't with any optimization either, as creation of the ore en masse is entirely possible but often unnecessary.

[Fatmice]

What do you mean by "minimal list"?

I just began playing with these 2 mods and yours mod.
It can be a long time before i get to uranium power, but once i do, ill make a report.

By minimal, I meant working list. These mods are so call "modular" but by all means they are not. Especially the Angel's ones...
Currently, I have this as the minimal list for testing
Angel's:
Infinite Ores, Petrol Chemical Processing (this one is especially pesky since it requires Bob's Assembling Machines, Electronics, and Metal's+Chemicals+Intermediates ) , Refining
Bob's:
Assembling Machines, Config, Electronics, Function library mod, Metal's+Chemicals and Intermediates (aka bobplates, a dubious name that has no association with its long name ), Mining, and finally Ores.

Just to note, mineral sludge creates any ore you want at a rather slow pace, but with a sizable Angel's sorting setup these ores can stack up quite rapidly over a period of time.
I've found that fluorite is generally burned extremely slowly compared to uraninite, so this method is often clogged up with fluorite and quite inefficient after a couple hours to begin with.

All you require is angels refining to obtain the slag required to make mineral sludge.

Edit: Testing my own setup, the ore sorting creates 90 of each ore per minute + 114/m of each ore from the mineral slurry line.
This isn't with any optimization either, as creation of the ore en masse is entirely possible but often unnecessary.

I will introduce fluorite recycling recipes in 0.6.7 to minimize fluorite usage. This will allow recycling of the fluorine gas...This was a requested feature, quite awhile ago actually, that I've neglected or forgotten . The side effects of this new feature will aggravate the production of fluorite ore through Angel's setups. I've always intended for mining the ore deposits on the map to be the primary means of producing uraninite or fluorite. A secondary means is to scavenge uranium from coal-ash, which is to encourage the use of coal, which is left unused after oil is found (to this end I will further reduce the polluting effect of burning coal from my furnace in 0.6.7)

Also, Light, you forgot about water electrolysis to make slag...which I find to be highly dubious

Thus I will be nerfing the so call slag -> slag_sludge -> mineral_sluge -> urninite+fluorite route. Effectively the salvage rate will be ~ 0.04%. I will test this new ratios for 0.6.7

As I've said before, my intention is that once you're snagged into uranium as a means of producing power then you must be committed to go all the way to sustain it. The ratios of uraninite to uraninum slurry will be reduced once I've introduce the breeder reactor (MSFR) in 0.6.8. Your primary means to produce fuel is to breed it from depleted uranium and finally from thorium (scavenge from stone). Once in a blue moon, you will find some extra uraninite ore or coal patch on the map, through exploration, that you can supplement your reserves.

[Fatmice]

So, I've built a map to look into this issue with Angel's + Bob's

Bob-Angels-02.zip

(1.52 MiB) Downloaded 151 times

Base

After letting it run for a bit, it is immediately clear what is going on.
1/ The 2+2+2 ores -> 6 of my ore is OP. This is definitely compounded when the ore patch is infinite like oil.
2/ The slag -> my ore is not a large contributor in the short term, but can be quite significant in the long term.

So I will adjust both in data-updates.lua to be more in line with what I think is right. It will be clearly documented so you can revert if you wish.

New values
1/ 2+2+2 ores -> 1 of uraninite/fluorite
2/ mineral_sludge -> 1 uraninite + 1 fluorite at probability = 0.002 (0.2% chance of success)

[Light]

I will introduce fluorite recycling recipes in 0.6.7 to minimize fluorite usage. This will allow recycling of the fluorine gas...This was a requested feature, quite awhile ago actually, that I've neglected or forgotten . The side effects of this new feature will aggravate the production of fluorite ore through Angel's setups. I've always intended for mining the ore deposits on the map to be the primary means of producing uraninite or fluorite. A secondary means is to scavenge uranium from coal-ash, which is to encourage the use of coal, which is left unused after oil is found (to this end I will further reduce the polluting effect of burning coal from my furnace in 0.6.7)

Also, Light, you forgot about water electrolysis to make slag...which I find to be highly dubious

Thus I will be nerfing the so call slag -> slag_sludge -> mineral_sluge -> urninite+fluorite route. Effectively the salvage rate will be ~ 0.04%. I will test this new ratios for 0.6.7

As I've said before, my intention is that once you're snagged into uranium as a means of producing power then you must be committed to go all the way to sustain it. The ratios of uraninite to uraninum slurry will be reduced once I've introduce the breeder reactor (MSFR) in 0.6.8. Your primary means to produce fuel is to breed it from depleted uranium and finally from thorium (scavenge from stone). Once in a blue moon, you will find some extra uraninite ore or coal patch on the map, through exploration, that you can supplement your reserves.

I did forget about the dirt water electrolysis, mainly because Angel still hasn't made the migration for it, thus I still don't have it for my main factory save.

My main factory has been running for over 5 days and disregarding mineral sludge which I didn't use for uranium, over 400 rods were created and several tens of thousands of fluorite ores were destroyed to keep the system flowing. So it's good to hear you're playing around with Angels to balance all of this out, as I also felt it was way too overpowered and renders fuel recycling entirely pointless.

Using the pure ore method would have been the most efficient way, but you already saw how OP that is.

So I will adjust both in data-updates.lua to be more in line with what I think is right. It will be clearly documented so you can revert if you wish.

New values
1/ 2+2+2 ores -> 1 of uraninite/fluorite
2/ mineral_sludge -> 1 uraninite + 1 fluorite at probability = 0.002 (0.2% chance of success)

This actually encourages me to use uranium as a good mineral sludge and crystal slurry sink.

I'm not sure if you know, but the geodes become crystal slurry which converts into even more mineral slurry, which can fill up tanks rather quickly depending on the setup. Uranium would now be a great way to deal with overflow of those tanks.

The recent use of sulfuric acid also assists Angel's players, given the large amount of sulfur generated by ore sorting as well.

[Fatmice]

Here's the 4th round of testing.

Bob-Angels-04.zip

(1.5 MiB) Downloaded 164 times

4th

• From upper right down: sulfur, uraninite, and fluorite produced
• From left: All six ores mined.

After trying different numbers. I think this will be what I'll use for 0.6.7
Here are the codes in data-final-fixes.lua

Code: Select all

-- The prolonged ore processings and water electrolysis from Angel's mods have unintended side-effects of producing prodigious amounts of slag.
-- In turn, this produces an absurd amounts of uraninite + fluorite through the so call slag -> slag_slurry -> mineral_slurry -> uraninite + fluorite ore conversion over time.
-- The new ratio is effectively 200 slag to 1 uraninite + 1 fluorite.
-- The 2+2+2 -> uraninite/fluorite exchange is also too good.  Changed to 6 -> 1
local slag_tweak = true
local ore_exchange_tweak = true
--log( serpent.block( data.raw.recipe, {comment = false, numformat = '%1.8g' } ))
if data.raw.recipe["slag-processing-up"] and slag_tweak then
	log("slag-processing-up is valid")
	data.raw.recipe["slag-processing-up"].results = {
		{type = "item", name = "uraninite", amount_min = 1, amount_max = 5, probability = 0.05},
		{type = "item", name = "fluorite", amount_min = 1, amount_max = 1, probability = 0.05}
	}
else 
	log("slag-processing-up is invalid")
end
if data.raw.recipe["angelsore-crystal-mix-up1-processing"] and data.raw.recipe["angelsore-crystal-mix-up2-processing"] and ore_exchange_tweak then
	log("angelsore-crystal-mix-up1-processing and angelsore-crystal-mix-up2-processing are valid")
	data.raw.recipe["angelsore-crystal-mix-up1-processing"].results = {
		{type = "item", name = "uraninite", amount_min = 1, amount_max = 1, probability = 0.46}
	}
	data.raw.recipe["angelsore-crystal-mix-up2-processing"].results = {
		{type = "item", name = "fluorite", amount_min = 1, amount_max = 1, probability = 0.1}
	}
else
	log("angelsore-crystal-mix-up1-processing and angelsore-crystal-mix-up2-processing are invalid")
end

As you can see, it is very easy to toggle the change on and off as well as make your own change if you do not like my tweaks. I've also informed Angel about this and he agreed. He will probably incorporate my tweak when he has time to work on his mod.

The new ratio is effectively ~34 -> 1 uraninite and ~60 -> 1 fluorite. This assumes you make other ore and consumes all mineral_sludge by transforming as much slag and stone into mineral_sludge as possible.

[Rue99]

It'll be good to see UP and Angels playing nicely, I enjoy both mods enormously. As you mentioned the next version, I wondered if there's a publically available roadmap as to what we might expect, when? Of course, I do appreciate that this is a hobby, not a job, so I understand that you might be loathe to commit to timescales and features. As ever, I'm looking for my next uplift in non-solar power; laying down another GW of solar is becoming more tedious by the day!

[Fatmice]

This is the current roadmap.
viewtopic.php?f=64&t=9502&start=180#p227505

As for timeline, I'm hoping to get 0.6.7 out soon. Soon as in before x-mas. I'm working on adding a new feature in 0.6.7 to generate water. Another thing is to fix the steam-generator sprite...there is a part of it that irks me when you rotate the cold-leg. And finally, the main thing is to render new scale-up sprites to allow the 5x5 to connect to steam-generator and turbine-generator so you can generate power without having to use heat-exchangers when using that reactor.

GW scale power is after I add the MSFR (breeder/burner/converter) in 0.6.8...or I may just allow the MSFR to be GW capable. It's a major undertaking as it will have a central unit and a breeding unit. The central one is static but the breeding one will be however you build it. Thus the code to allow this to work is not easy, but do able. It will also generate power through chemical cycle or open air cycle, i.e. Brayton cycle (air -> compressed-air -> heated-compressed-air -> turbine). Thus another major feature, so a total of two new major features.

[Rue99]

Thanks for the speedy reply! The 500MW should deliver ~180MW or thereabouts, very useful in such a compact package. I'll have to do some sums to figure out how many processing/reprocessing lines I'll need to support a hefty nuclear policy, particularly in the light of your proposed changes to the yields in Angel's.

I found the roadmap very useful, so thank you for that. I shall look forward to seeing your ideas reach fruition.

[Fatmice]

Fluorine recycling, done for 0.6.7

Fluorine recycling

Recovery is 90%. You will need to make two small adjustments to your enrichment chain.