[0.12.x][v0.12.10] Bob's Modules.

[bobingabout]

1. Is it intended that the "Raw Speed Module 1" can only be produced in an "Assembling Machine 3" or better while basically all the other modules can already be produced in an "Assembling Machine 2"?

2. Is it intended that the "Module main board" and the "Basic module board" can not be produced in hand?

Number 1 seems to be not intended (or rather I don't see any rhyme or reason to why this should be the case). Number 2 might be, but I still think it's strange since those are the very basic ones and you can basically produce everything else in hand...

point 1. The machine that it is produced in depends on how many ingredients, you'll find that Raw Productivity and Green modules likely have the same restriction. God modules possibly even Assembling machine 4.

Point 2. Unless I'm getting them mixed up, those two boards require ferric chloride as part of their recipe, and therefore since you can't hold a fluid, can't be produced by hand.

[pieppiep]

One thing I think is strange about the module mod is that it doesn't require the assembly mod.
Without the higher tiers assembly machines many modules aren't possible to create in bulk.

About point 2, I see a possibility for a mod to add/change the recipy to use barreled ferric chlorine so it is possible to do by hand.

[self-same-spot]

.

[hoho]

... a Single electric furnace with a few beacons uses 10kw

Beacons use a ton of power too.

Though, yes, not comparable to having thousands of furnaces.

[Peacoq]

Can anybody give me some advice as what modules to use in order to have a fun and balanced game without trivializing the gameplay.

From my understanding i should just ignore all productivity modules and beacons. Anything else?

[bobingabout]

From my understanding i should just ignore all productivity modules and beacons. Anything else?

That one is more of a base game perspective advice.

For starters, Ignore god modules, they're disabled by default.
Ignoring anything with productivity in it too isn't a bad idea, but, if you're going to do that, you might as well just ignore modules as a whole.

I personally put a "Green" module MK8 in everything, this reduces power consumption and pollution to a minimum.

The other one I use is "Raw Speed", but with no side effects, that could be trivialising too.


so, if you want to remove trivialisation, try disable all merged module options too, leaving you with productivity, speed, effectivity(power consumption), pollution cleaning, and pollution creating.

Then you have speed modules with a power consumption side effect, that you have to balance out with effectivity modules, and maybe pollution cleaning if there's room.

[TheTom]

What I do is not using modules actively.

Actively means: I never put them anywhere.

I still do have quite a pproduction going - because the endgame mod (not by bob) requries quite a lot of them for rocket starts They also are used in a lot of armor equipment. I try to make a mega factory, and producing the modules (particularly for the control circuits on the rocket) is a bottleneck at the moment.

But I never put them in any slots.

[Peacoq]

What I do is not using modules actively.
Actively means: I never put them anywhere.

Modules are quite complex to make and add an extra dimension to the game. I feel ignoring them would remove tons of fun.

so, if you want to remove trivialisation, try disable all merged module options too, leaving you with productivity, speed, effectivity(power consumption), pollution cleaning, and pollution creating.

Then you have speed modules with a power consumption side effect, that you have to balance out with effectivity modules, and maybe pollution cleaning if there's room.

Thanks for input Bob.
Still i feel like even putting green modules / speed modules would drastically simplify my base design. With 500+ speed i doubt i would need more then 1-5 for each factory / extractor.

After looking at module data, i wonder how hard would be it be for me to create a little mod for myself to play around with numbers, and balance around energy utilisation. This way all modules would have their use, but you would not simply stack them all.

As an example (T8):
Green: -60% energy reduction
Raw productivity: +40% productivity, +800% energy cost.
Productivity: +40% productivity, +240% energy cost, -50% speed, + 40% pollution.
Speed: +100% speed, +180% energy cost.

Pollution reduction: Dunno? Is there a cap to pollution reduction?

[bobingabout]

Pollution reduction: Dunno? Is there a cap to pollution reduction?

-80%, same as energy consumption.

[DRY411S]

Is there a topic for v0.14 and v0.13 for Bob's modules? Assuming not, here goes....

Do any of your mods completely remove the vanilla productivity-module?

For my Add Assembler Batteries mod, I have the lines...

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table.insert(data.raw["module"]["productivity-module"].limitation, "assembler-battery")
table.insert(data.raw["module"]["productivity-module-2"].limitation, "assembler-battery")
table.insert(data.raw["module"]["productivity-module-3"].limitation, "assembler-battery")

I've got an error report that line 1 is failing with an error

Code: Select all

Bad argument #1 to 'insert' (table expected, got nil)

The reporter is suggesting that it might be because your mod replaces the productivity-modules with different ones, including 'raw-productivity-module'. Is there a test I can do for this, and what modules should I be adding please?

[bobingabout]

Yes.

As part of uniformallity and the fact that having limitations in my mod is an option, not a requirement, the code for all 3 base game productivity modules is replaced with a version without the tag. (Because if the tag exists at all, even as nil, it seems to act as if you have limitations, but since it's nil, it's limited to nothing, meaning it can't be used.) They are added in again, with lots of extra additions (I think during the data-updates phase) if limitation is enabled.


Also, if you were to just bump that code back to the data updates phase, it wouldn't guarantee it to work with my mods, because the limitation key still might not exist if limitations aren't enabled.
And if you did add in a check to see if the key exists before adding to it, you still have the issue that it only works on those 3, and not the others that I add.

My recommended solution would be, not only to bump it to data-updates, but also check for the existence of my library's add productivity limitation function. if it exists, use it, if not, do what you wrote there. Alternatively, you could look at the function and copy what it does into your own mod.
Check how I do it in one of my mods, such as bobplates. it's easier to get it right with examples.

I'd give you the exact code, but I don't have access to my mods at my current location, but the check would have to be multi barrelled like...
if bobmods and bobmods.lib and.... then
all the way up to and including the function name.

Remember, all this is off the top of my head, so accuracy may be off!

Hope this helps.

EDIT:
I looked it up.
in data-updates.lua (or a file it includes) I have the following line

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bobmods.lib.module.add_productivity_limitations(parts)

in this case, parts is a table of things to add. if you want to do the same for single entries, the function bobmods.lib.module.add_productivity_limitation() takes a single entry.

The check code would then be as follows:

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if bobmods and bobmods.lib and bobmods.lib.module and bobmods.lib.module.add_productivity_limitations then
  bobmods.lib.module.add_productivity_limitations(parts)
else
  --your code here
end

where parts is a table including all your things to add.
My function performs the appropriate safety checks to see if tags exist before trying to add to them. it also is not limited to modules added by my own mod, it will add to any module with a limitation key, and a productivity value.

[DRY411S]

<snip>

Hope this helps.

It does indeed. I'll take a look at bobsplates, work out my code, and move it to data-final-fixes.

My own testing did not find this bug. Looking at the code at the the top of your Bobs-Modules, it looks as though it's probably because I need to do something with Bob's config. I'll take a look.

[bobingabout]

Looking at the code at the the top of your Bobs-Modules, it looks as though it's probably because I need to do something with Bob's config. I'll take a look.

You could do it that way, though, look at my edit. If modules exists, the library exists, so going through the library is my recommendation, as the function will perform all the other checks for you.

[DRY411S]

Looking at the code at the the top of your Bobs-Modules, it looks as though it's probably because I need to do something with Bob's config. I'll take a look.

You could do it that way, though, look at my edit. If modules exists, the library exists, so going through the library is my recommendation, as the function will perform all the other checks for you.

Regarding config, I meant I should look at it, assign some values, and FORCE the error in my mod so I can test the fix. So far I haven't reproduced the error.

Seen the edit thanks. I want to resist using your libraries, so that my mod is not dependent and can be used autonomously. HOWEVER, I guess I could put some logic in that checks whether your mod library is active, and call the library function you mention. I have to test for your mod after all, to get rid of this bug I have.

[bobingabout]

Indeed, that if block I mentioned, copied below, first checks if the library exists, and then uses that specific tag if it does.

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if bobmods and bobmods.lib and bobmods.lib.module and bobmods.lib.module.add_productivity_limitations then

It's a one shot, that will fail and drop out if any of the values on the list don't exist, so in most cases, if my mod doesn't exist, it will fail the first check for bobmods.

So yeah, adding this check in will add compatibility with my mod, without making it a dependency.

[orzelek]

Indeed, that if block I mentioned, copied below, first checks if the library exists, and then uses that specific tag if it does.

Code: Select all

if bobmods and bobmods.lib and bobmods.lib.module and bobmods.lib.module.add_productivity_limitations then

It's a one shot, that will fail and drop out if any of the values on the list don't exist, so in most cases, if my mod doesn't exist, it will fail the first check for bobmods.

So yeah, adding this check in will add compatibility with my mod, without making it a dependency.

It might need an optional dependency or his mod might load before library and/or modules and your mods won't be laoded then or will be after processing of previous stage.

[bobingabout]

It might need an optional dependency or his mod might load before library and/or modules and your mods won't be laoded then or will be after processing of previous stage.

Since I said to put it in the data-updates phase, that can probably be skipped. I mean, not all my other mods have modules as an optional dependency, yet it still works.

[DRY411S]

I'm having difficulty reproducing my bug report, because I cannot figure out how to stop Productivity modules 1,2,3 being produced in Bob's modules. Can you help please?

[DRY411S]

I'm having difficulty reproducing my bug report, because I cannot figure out how to stop Productivity modules 1,2,3 being produced in Bob's modules. Can you help please?

**Bump**

I still cannot force this error in my mod. data.raw["module"]["productivity-module"] seems to exist whatever combination of modules I switch on/off in your config mod. Can you help please Bob with some settings which would mean that the vanilla productivity modules are removed.

[bobingabout]

There's currently no settings that change base level modules, my mod will always edit base game speed and effectivity modules, and add extras up to MK8, and replace the productivity modules, adding to MK8. It will also add pollution cleaning/creating modules to MK8 too.

The difference is that with default configuration, the module will not have a filter set. Turning on productivity limitations will add the tags for it.