Trash, Garbage, Refuse

[n7m6e7]

It's something rather small. but i'm sure we've all been there. In the late game, you load up a chest with your first gun, some furnaces, mining drills, and everything else that's useless and taking up space, and blow up the chest to get rid of it forever. I suggest a small alternative. Garbage and or Recycling centers.

Recycle centers would let you put items in it, and recover some of its base material

Garbage could be a bit more complex... I would propose 3 types of garbage. Iron, Copper, mix. One could convert all unneeded items into garbage to conserve inventory space, and put it into the recycling plant later.

Garbage could also be used as a nuisance side affect of biter attacks, in order to convince players to build the recycle plant. Destroyed structures would leave behind garbage proportional to their construction cost (divided by 2 or somethin, balancing needed) and construction or logistics bots would have to clear it out before re-building.

[ssilk]

Added to viewtopic.php?f=80&t=21278 Recycling/Disassembling of Waste / Scrap / Trash

[Deadly-Bagel]

The argument for recycling centres is they would cost more to build and to power than you'd get from the resources returned.

I mean what do you actually need to recycle? A dozen burner inserters? Some stone furnaces (assuming you haven't crafted them into boilers)? Probably the biggest recycle that would happen is steel furnaces if you built a bunch of them, 50 of them needs 400 steel and 500 bricks to make. If you returned 80% of that you'd get 320 steel and 400 bricks. Is it even worth it? True it would feel like less of a waste when you're crafting them but I think I'd rather they were used as components of the new science packs or something rather than implement a machine for recycling trash that quickly becomes trash itself.

Then implement a bit of an awkward way to delete stuff, just grab it with the cursor and press Delete on the keyboard or something. It's far enough out of the way you shouldn't hit it by accident but allows you to easily destroy a dozen burner drills and a stack of regular ammo.

[vanatteveldt]

I made a simple little mod for the most common use case: burner inserters/miners and steel furnaces (https://mods.factorio.com/mods/vanatteveldt/recycling). This allows these obsolete entities to be melted down to iron/steel in a regular furnace.

[n7m6e7]

I mean what do you actually need to recycle? A dozen burner inserters? Some stone furnaces (assuming you haven't crafted them into boilers)? Probably the biggest recycle that would happen is steel furnaces if you built a bunch of them, 50 of them needs 400 steel and 500 bricks to make. If you returned 80% of that you'd get 320 steel and 400 bricks. Is it even worth it?

As I was writing that, I too thought"what would be worth recycling? do i really want a structure that would only return a couple hundred steel/copper/iron in it's life?" which is why I added the "buildings drop garbage" thing. allowing you to regain some of what is lost to the inevitable biter attacks.

Not only that, But should players challenge themselves with smaller mineral deposits, the need to cannibalize your base for ammo/ vehicles may arise.

[n7m6e7]

I made a simple little mod for the most common use case: burner inserters/miners and steel furnaces (https://mods.factorio.com/mods/vanatteveldt/recycling). This allows these obsolete entities to be melted down to iron/steel in a regular furnace.

thanks, but.....

viewtopic.php?f=87&t=3612

is closer to my ideal system.

[Deadly-Bagel]

A garbage system would effectively double the complexity of every aspect of the game. It's already pretty complicated for newcomers.

I could sit here and say something like machines could accumulate x% of a unit of garbage per craft and stack it in a Garbage slot that you clean out manually to start with then use construction bots to do so later, but I'm quite confident in my abilities of the base game. Again, for a newcomer who is still trying to come to terms with trains would it be simple to understand why all their assemblers have suddenly stopped working?

Not to mention this would make any sort of modular base or outpost manufacturing a real pain.

[ssilk]

The problem I see with this trash is:
- It's so often suggested (over 40 suggestions, not counted the merged topics!)
- it is unlike the so often called belt-suggestion a valid subject for game-play, cause 90% of players are used (even forced) to never waste anything before they play Factorio.

I changed my opinion pretty much about this the last years.
And currently I think this is just enough:


Just a litter: You put stuff in (even with a belt or inserter) and it disapperars. Simply as in https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Mooncat/creative-mode

And that simple trashcan has a very high game-value! It should also be a player ability, cause it can solve all problems, when your inventory is jammed.

[n7m6e7]

A garbage system would effectively double the complexity of every aspect of the game. It's already pretty complicated for newcomers.

I could sit here and say something like machines could accumulate x% of a unit of garbage per craft and stack it in a Garbage slot that you clean out manually to start with then use construction bots to do so later, but I'm quite confident in my abilities of the base game. Again, for a newcomer who is still trying to come to terms with trains would it be simple to understand why all their assemblers have suddenly stopped working?

Not to mention this would make any sort of modular base or outpost manufacturing a real pain.

umm.... what? I didnt mention anywhere stuff accumulating trash. simply:

Ability to throw stuff into a recycler, and get a portion of their raw material back
Destroyed structures drop X% of their building cost as respective "trash" variants that must be recycled into plates, bars, ect in order to be used in anything.

that trash management wouldn't come into play until later in the game. when your buildings are getting destroyed, your old systems are obsolete, and you gotta decide whether to accept the material loss, or try to recover all you can.

Just a litter: You put stuff in (even with a belt or inserter) and it disapperars. Simply as in https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Mooncat/creative-mode

And that simple trashcan has a very high game-value! It should also be a player ability, cause it can solve all problems, when your inventory is jammed.

I feel if its just a way to get rid of stuff, Its rather pointless. If i have too many assemblers, why would i just throw it away? if I keep it in a chest, it'll be available for replacement should biters attack. it'll be ready for use in my next planned system. If im hell-bent on just trashing something, i'll do the old fill-a-chest-and-kill-it thing. If i can convert un-needed assemblers into base material, NOW i have a reason to scrap that assembler to get some material back. a opposed to deleting it, and wasting all the time and material to make it in the first place.

Also, I do suggest being able to scrap stuff into trash variants (iron scrap, copper scrap) from your inventory, to save some space.

[Deadly-Bagel]

Oh, misread. Typically I only lose a turret now and then, and in the mid game I might lose a few belts and a mining drill at worst so I still don't see any value to that suggestion.

Recycling would never be 100% return, so I'd still drop any excess in a chest rather than scrapping it. The main reason for wanting this is to delete burner miners, burner inserters and old furnaces. The only real amount of resources out of any of those is Steel Furnaces for a few hundred steel and bricks, not a lot in the grand scheme of things. I'd still prefer they were built into something, otherwise you end up with the same problem as power armour where using the early tiers just feels like a waste of resources.

[vanatteveldt]

Recycling would never be 100% return, so I'd still drop any excess in a chest rather than scrapping it. The main reason for wanting this is to delete burner miners, burner inserters and old furnaces. The only real amount of resources out of any of those is Steel Furnaces for a few hundred steel and bricks, not a lot in the grand scheme of things. I'd still prefer they were built into something, otherwise you end up with the same problem as power armour where using the early tiers just feels like a waste of resources.

That's why I figured that what is needed is simply a recipe for smelting down burner inserters/miners (yielding iron) and steel furnaces (yielding steel). Stone furnaces can be used in boilers, which are currently still endgame technology, but I can imagine adding recipes for "smelting" boilers (yielding brick) and steam engines (yielding iron) for people moving to solar. Currently yields are all 1, increasing that to 4-6 for steel furnaces and burner miners would make sense as well. Adding a 'recycling center' or even a litter box is overkill, imho.

[Rseding91]

Every time someone brings this up my response is the same: The piddly amount of resources you'd get back mean nothing in the grand scheme of launching a rocket.

Lets say you have 200 burner inserters (you don't), 100 mining drills (you don't), 100 steel furnaces (you don't) that's only going to give you back:

200 burner inserters: 600 iron ore
100 burner drills: 900 iron ore + 500 stone
100 steel furnaces: 4000 iron ore + 2000 stone

That's roughly the amount of ore you get from 4 resource piles at the starting ore deposits. And keep in mind that this is at 100% return which it would never be.

It's not worth the development time to make anything like that.

[vanatteveldt]

Every time someone brings this up my response is the same: The piddly amount of resources you'd get back mean nothing in the grand scheme of launching a rocket.

Lets say you have 200 burner inserters (you don't), 100 mining drills (you don't), 100 steel furnaces (you don't) that's only going to give you back:

200 burner inserters: 600 iron ore
100 burner drills: 900 iron ore + 500 stone
100 steel furnaces: 4000 iron ore + 2000 stone

That's roughly the amount of ore you get from 4 resource piles at the starting ore deposits. And keep in mind that this is at 100% return which it would never be.

It's not worth the development time to make anything like that.

Thanks for chiming in

It's not really about the resources, it's about making things tidy. Making a neatly working machine is part of the appeal of factorio, and 'wasting' resources in the early bootstrapping process feels like a loose end. Removing inventory by shooting containers is very meh.

You don't really need to invest dev time, just copy the recipes from my mod (1 burner* -> 1 iron plate, 1 steel furnace -> 1 steel plate) and you're done . No new entities, no clutter, no artwork needed.

[ssilk]

I jump again in.

Rseding: All that is needed to get this "issue" away is a simple trashcan. The implementation can be copied and enhanced (should have an inventory) from creative-mode. All what's needed from developers is a nice icon, eventually sound.

Game-play-value is extremely high, cause it satisfies those players, that want to play a "clean" game (they don't like wooden-chest destruction) and it helps a lot when your inventory is crowded with unusable stuff.

[n7m6e7]

Every time someone brings this up my response is the same: The piddly amount of resources you'd get back mean nothing in the grand scheme of launching a rocket.

Lets say you have 200 burner inserters (you don't), 100 mining drills (you don't), 100 steel furnaces (you don't) that's only going to give you back:

200 burner inserters: 600 iron ore
100 burner drills: 900 iron ore + 500 stone
100 steel furnaces: 4000 iron ore + 2000 stone

That's roughly the amount of ore you get from 4 resource piles at the starting ore deposits. And keep in mind that this is at 100% return which it would never be.

It's not worth the development time to make anything like that.

And all of that is within the current game. what if its decided that ore is too plentiful in its normal setting? what if the game was based on more scarce resources, than massive cost inflation? what if Its decided that buildings cant be plopped down, and picked up easily anymore? (which side note. I had to get used to the whole "yea, feel free to set it wherever you want, you can pick it up easy, and rearrange at will" coming from games like minecraft, C&C, prison architect, and space engineers where you best build with purpose and a plan, otherwise its hell to reconfigure the system)

Or even currently, many players pump their resources directly into science or rockets. then if struck by a massive biter attack, they will have to divert the flow of resources to fix the damage. It'd be nice to recover all that time lost.

It's obviously not my place to say where factorio goes, but recycling is suggested so much (along with lane splitters/blockers ect) because It's an expected feature. you can craft something, how do you take it apart?

[Deadly-Bagel]

Also trash can would be useful for pumping excess wood into in forest-heavy maps which I always seem to end up in. Seriously when you've got 15,000 wood in your logistic system there's basically no way you're going to get through it all no matter what you do. Something I can set up to pull excess wood and dump it into a trash can would be useful, and something to void liquids without resorting to the Steam Engine (that feels a bit hacky to me and the footprint is huge).

[vanatteveldt]

Wood+water can be converted into pollution

(boiler -> steam engine -> assembler pair (un)barreling crude)

More seriously, a stack size of 500 for wood would be quite nice. Then, a single storage chest can hold 50*500=25k wood, and you can simply feed it into your boilers slowly (assuming you use steam power like a real man)

(edit: and you can build a fully autonous wood destruction machine: have a requester chest requesting 1000 wood, and make a loop with burner inserters back to the chest. The wood will disappear by itself )

[Deadly-Bagel]

I'd need a hundred of those setups to process the amount of wood I seem to accumulate =/

[ssilk]

Yes. And there are "special" players, which would use such a devnull-chest (if in vanilla), for "endless" games (besides all the other possibilities).