Development and Discussion

[aklesey1]

And again about petrochem - my thoughts about hydrofluoric acid

Little reference information
Range of application of hydrofluoric acid:

Fluorhydric acid is used in various fields of the industry: oil, metallurgical, structural, etc. It is applied to disolution of silicates, metals, rocks. In organic chemistry it is used for receiving fluorine and fluorinated acids, as reagent for receiving hladon and fluoroplastics; in the glass industry for etching of glass and polishing of porcelain.

Here's question - where we can use this hydrofluoric acid? May be we can use it in smelting mod? In bio processing mod?
I need to ventilate this acid now because it is accumulated in big amounts if i want to crack acid gas or if i want to get calcium sulfate

[mexmer]

Been playing with the smelting mod for a bit now. My foundry is getting big! Well, it was until the Bulldozer mod hosed my save.

One thing I noticed is that the advanced smelting recipes make some of the recipes less complex. Take Silicon Plates for example. The original Bob's recipe for a silicon plate is Calcium Chloride, Carbon and Quartz where as the advanced smelting recipe is simply Quartz and Coal. In fact, I can't seem to find any use for Calcium Chloride any more.

Another is Cobalt. The original recipe is a two step with Cobalt Ore, Stone and Sulfirc acid with the option of generating cobalt via Advanced Copper processing. Meanwhile the advanced Smelting recipe is just Cobalt ore and carbon.

I'd encourage you to add these complexities back into the smelting mod, perhaps as part of the processed ore or pellet versions. That way early on you can use the more basic recipes for directly creating plates and add the more complex vesions to gain the additional efficiencies from the processed and pellet lines.

cobalt from copper is still possible.

[gheift]

Hi Angel,

when do you plan to enable alloy crafting in your smelting mod?
If you do, may I suggest some adjustments?
Here are some ideas:

• in the blast-furnace-1 recipe replace the basic-electronic-board with a basic-circuit-board
• mode tin- & lead-smelting tech to the same level as iron- & copper-smelting and let them only require red science packs
• make solder-1-smelting tech depending on tin- & lead-smelting only requiring red science packs
• make steel-smelting tech depending on iron-smelting (currently it is unlocked with advanced metallurgy 1)
• make ore processing-1 depending on solder-1-smelting
• make advanced-metallurgy-1 depending on steel-processing
• make bio-processing-1 depending on basic-chemistry

Thanks for your great mods,
Gerhard

My problem at the moment is more that I'm working on several different things and mods, so to get things done I should concentrate on finishing one mod, but I also have to take breaks from working on petrochem for example because getting new ideas and go over all the stuff again takes time. So I cant give you an ETA for when alloying will be avaiable, there is also still the strand casting machine model to be done, where I'm not sure on how to progress further with it.

I adjusted the mod for me myself, pherhaps you could use it. I attached my modified mod (excluding graphics & sound). The patches are also included.

[StormTAG]

cobalt from copper is still possible.

All of the original Bob's Recipes are still available, no doubt. However it'd be neat to see a Angel's Refining equivalent as the current recipe is fairly generic.

[aklesey1]

Guys i'm playing with all angel mods and I came to the conclusion - do we need electric furnaces from bob mods and vanilla if we can create angel casting machine which don't need fuel and working on electricity and 2 machines which also using only electric energy
If Arch666Angel wants to create overhaul i think the electric furnaces from vanilla and bob mods can be deleted from this great mod system, chemical furnaces will suffer the same fate - we already have angel air filters and angel electrolysers

And yes New Warehouses looks awesome

[Light]

Guys i'm playing with all angel mods and I came to the conclusion - do we need electric furnaces from bob mods and vanilla if we can create angel casting machine which don't need fuel and working on electricity and 2 machines which also using only electric energy
If Arch666Angel wants to create overhaul i think the electric furnaces from vanilla and bob mods can be deleted from this great mod system, chemical furnaces will suffer the same fate - we already have angel air filters and angel electrolysers

Yes, we do.

While you're talking about this looking at the smelting mod perspective, there are still recipes that require furnaces to cook stone bricks and coke products required in many critical recipes, including the creation of smelting structures themselves and their ingots. (Which you somehow forgot?)

That aside, one of the great things about Factorio is the variety of options at your disposal to get the job done. Taking away options that aren't inherently redundant only hurts the experience, as not everyone prefers to stick to one singular method of getting things done. While I love the smelting mod, I still use electric furnaces in distant areas as the key source of refining iron/copper. Ingots aren't exactly the fastest method in my situation right now, despite the additional yield it creates, the process still takes more time than direct smelting.

[aklesey1]

I like to get more resources from fewer ore, usually I don't care how fast is the process
I don't like to harry in factorio, sometimes its annoys me - when i'm on the war with bitters, yes there definitely need to hurry
I really like the variability in production chains, but i need to calculate many variants of resource consumption - most often it is happens on with liquids and gases

Sometimes I remember the Cartmen Industries mod mod and i want these many many intermediates for machines - it was really serious heavy mod viewtopic.php?f=32&t=5925 - it contained a lot of details

But yes its really crazy - trying to do a lot of tiny details, and someday something will break for sure

[Arch666Angel]

That aside, one of the great things about Factorio is the variety of options at your disposal to get the job done. Taking away options that aren't inherently redundant only hurts the experience, as not everyone prefers to stick to one singular method of getting things done. While I love the smelting mod, I still use electric furnaces in distant areas as the key source of refining iron/copper. Ingots aren't exactly the fastest method in my situation right now, despite the additional yield it creates, the process still takes more time than direct smelting.

That is only true if you look at the individual item that is going through the whole chain. If you have a constant throughput then the time it takes for an item to go through a chain doesn't really matter, what matters is that the chain is "smooth" enough that you get the same output you put in. But of course you are right in the field that setting up a huge processing chain in the field isn't really feasible and that's the field the simple smelting methods will fill in.

[aklesey1]

I find that new chain for producing carbon is convenient, I just need more wood for the production

[Royal_Shooter]

Thanks for the great mod you make,for Angel's Refining,can you make all the machine are able to process all ore(like furnace)but not only one type.It make all late game process horrible large and hard to setup.(I need to set up for 6 line for each ore.)I am already test it in cheat mode,and it took me 4-5 hours to build those line ..........And also for the other resource that other mods need like Yuoki/Bob resource,it is not providing so small amount,and I can't keep up with it.

[Ratzap]

Thanks for the great mod you make,for Angel's Refining,can you make all the machine are able to process all ore(like furnace)but not only one type.It make all late game process horrible large and hard to setup.(I need to set up for 6 line for each ore.)I am already test it in cheat mode,and it took me 4-5 hours to build those line ..........And also for the other resource that other mods need like Yuoki/Bob resource,it is not providing so small amount,and I can't keep up with it.

You may be using the wrong mods then. Once again, Angels processes take up a ton of space, eat power and will generally produce less plates than a line of 20 furnaces in stock. They are about complexity and some realism, not throughput optimization. I have nearly 3 days played in a bobs/angels save and I produce plates for less than 40% of the metals. Factorissimo can help you keep it all tidy but it is still huge and takes a great deal of time to build.

If you picked up that bob+angel+YI pack from the mod portal and thought you'd just bang out a factory, boy have you made a mistake

[Breith]

The only way you can have enough iron/copper/tin/thelastone plates is to smelt the corresponding crushed mineral in addition to the ore melting.
Using Angel's Smelting can improve the plate output from ore, but it won't prevent the usage of the default crushed mineral completely (and yes, it will take a lot of space / power to do that, you need to have an automatic way to produce robots (MK2 is better) and solar panel (MK2 is better) before you start the advanced smelting area).


By the way, anyone found a good solution for Crushed Stone? After 48h played, I have something like 15 silos full of it. I started to destroy my full silo to get rid of it. It's really depressing. Useless biasproduct is fine, but the quantity of crushed stone we get is definitevelly waaaayyyy to big.

[steinio]

I like the crushed/floated/chunked ore combination recipes to get vanilla ore.

You need to make stone from crushed stone aren't you?
I let make bricks and concrete from it in a huge amount.

Maybe the cellulose recipes are also interesting for you?

Greetings steinio

[mexmer]

The only way you can have enough iron/copper/tin/thelastone plates is to smelt the corresponding crushed mineral in addition to the ore melting.
Using Angel's Smelting can improve the plate output from ore, but it won't prevent the usage of the default crushed mineral completely (and yes, it will take a lot of space / power to do that, you need to have an automatic way to produce robots (MK2 is better) and solar panel (MK2 is better) before you start the advanced smelting area).


By the way, anyone found a good solution for Crushed Stone? After 48h played, I have something like 15 silos full of it. I started to destroy my full silo to get rid of it. It's really depressing. Useless biasproduct is fine, but the quantity of crushed stone we get is definitevelly waaaayyyy to big.

how can you have too much crushed stone? before i got into advanced processing, i had like maybe 3 silos of slag and 4 silos of crushed stone?
then i started making slag slury and mineral slury, and everything was gone in short time.

other option is to make bricks from crushed stone, and pave ground, which will give you 30% move bonus, or maybe it's 20 not sure.

[Breith]

I also have 4 silo full of stone, 2 full of stone brick, 1 of water filling... Seriously, with about 50 crushers MK3 the crushed stone production is way too high in regard of your factory stone usage.
The cellulose recipes will be a additional drain, but clearly it won't really fix the issue... especially now that I have even more crushed stone produce from my gem shorting line.

[mexmer]

I also have 4 silo full of stone, 2 full of stone brick, 1 of water filling... Seriously, with about 50 crushers MK3 the crushed stone production is way too high in regard of your factory stone usage.
The cellulose recipes will be a additional drain, but clearly it won't really fix the issue... especially now that I have even more crushed stone produce from my gem shorting line.

but you can turn stone back to ores using filtering, so there is no such thing as too much stone ... you just need to setup processing chain.

[jbtw]

Thanks very much for making your mods; they're a great challenge .

I've been playing a game with Bob's mods, Angels ores and petrochem, no biters, and alternate alien science.

The alternate alien science requires 21 sulfur per alien science pack (required by three explosive rockets). As a result, once I started churning out those science packs I went through my backlog of sulfur very quickly and have ever since been suffering a chronic sulfur shortage. This requirement is not too bad in vanilla where all oil can be converted to sulfur, but with Angel's Petrochem it's much more difficult.

I only see three sources of sulfur:

• Oil separation and natural gas separations, which provide 1 sulfur per 100 raw input (via yellow waste water). (You can also get a small amount through a many-step process which ultimately yields a little hydrogen sulfide)
• Slag / stone processing, which provides slightly more sulfur than it consumes in sulfuric acid (again, via the yellow waste water).
• Putting coal through Fischer Tropsch and converting hydrogen sulfide to sulfur, which provides 1 sulfur per 15 coal.

So far I've been relying on the first two, and they are not working out well. I am having to store a vast plastic backlog (>100k right now) in order to process enough oil to get even a trickle of sulfur (about 1 sulfur per second compared to about 10 plastic per second). I could set up the third, which looks better but only slightly so. I'd like to get to about 20 sulfur per second, which means 300 coal per second, and burning off the vast quantities of synthesis gas this would also produce.

Did I miss something? Is there an easier way to generate sulfur? Did you consider this potential issue in your recipe design? How would you feel about adding an ore sorting recipe to generate raw sulfur directly? I think that's reasonable from a realism and gameplay balance perspective, since sulfur is mined in the real world.

[Arch666Angel]

Thanks very much for making your mods; they're a great challenge .

I've been playing a game with Bob's mods, Angels ores and petrochem, no biters, and alternate alien science.

The alternate alien science requires 21 sulfur per alien science pack (required by three explosive rockets). As a result, once I started churning out those science packs I went through my backlog of sulfur very quickly and have ever since been suffering a chronic sulfur shortage. This requirement is not too bad in vanilla where all oil can be converted to sulfur, but with Angel's Petrochem it's much more difficult.

I only see three sources of sulfur:

• Oil separation and natural gas separations, which provide 1 sulfur per 100 raw input (via yellow waste water). (You can also get a small amount through a many-step process which ultimately yields a little hydrogen sulfide)
• Slag / stone processing, which provides slightly more sulfur than it consumes in sulfuric acid (again, via the yellow waste water).
• Putting coal through Fischer Tropsch and converting hydrogen sulfide to sulfur, which provides 1 sulfur per 15 coal.

So far I've been relying on the first two, and they are not working out well. I am having to store a vast plastic backlog (>100k right now) in order to process enough oil to get even a trickle of sulfur (about 1 sulfur per second compared to about 10 plastic per second). I could set up the third, which looks better but only slightly so. I'd like to get to about 20 sulfur per second, which means 300 coal per second, and burning off the vast quantities of synthesis gas this would also produce.

Did I miss something? Is there an easier way to generate sulfur? Did you consider this potential issue in your recipe design? How would you feel about adding an ore sorting recipe to generate raw sulfur directly? I think that's reasonable from a realism and gameplay balance perspective, since sulfur is mined in the real world.

That's really more of a balancing problem between the two mods, the main sources for sulfur are the waste water and the hydrogen sulfide, the hydrogen sulfide one is a bit weak at the moment so I can increase that a bit. Else I was thinking about an earlier version of the coal cracking to get some sulfur from coal. Else I would suggest to drop a line in the alternate science pack, maybe using some of the other chemicals in the mod.

Edit: I'm also re-adding the chain to make alien artefacts to the bio-processing at the moment.

[aklesey1]

Your Bio Processing mod now looks really useful
Waiting for any news about new elements in Smelting mod - manganese ore, chrome ore and platinum ore
New elements - sheet and wire coils - for what it's necessary

All this was found in the constant combinator menu

[Breith]

I also have 4 silo full of stone, 2 full of stone brick, 1 of water filling... Seriously, with about 50 crushers MK3 the crushed stone production is way too high in regard of your factory stone usage.
The cellulose recipes will be a additional drain, but clearly it won't really fix the issue... especially now that I have even more crushed stone produce from my gem shorting line.

but you can turn stone back to ores using filtering, so there is no such thing as too much stone ... you just need to setup processing chain.

I should have miss that recipes... I'll check that tonight. It's really weird.