Development and Discussion

[mexmer]

Can you please add recipes that uses processed ore to petrochem?

for example feric chlorid needs iron ore, but since i put ore from sorter directly to procesing plant, i don't have such thing in my logistic network.

[Breith]

Errr... add a chest in the middle?
It's kind of weird to use proceeded ore instead of ore.

[Arch666Angel]

Yeah I think I will change the global override of lubricant back to what it was, so you have to produce lubricant from base mineral oil and residual gas.

is there any way to get sulfur than from floatation waste?
seems i'm quite lacking sulfur (or rather dioxide and acid) ... well i know about different processes that produce floation waste, but income of sulfur from waste is rather low, and since sulfur is not minable, and cannot be obtained directly from oil cracking anymore, seems to be issue when it comes to advanced electronic.

You can get sulfur from cracking the acid gas you get from the gas refinery. Like I said I'm thinking about adding another process from coal, but havent thought that through.

Can you please add recipes that uses processed ore to petrochem?

for example feric chlorid needs iron ore, but since i put ore from sorter directly to procesing plant, i don't have such thing in my logistic network.

I will do with the smelting mod eventually, the powdered ores will be in there and they will go into the chemical recipes.

also one question, what's exactly residual gas used for?

there is recipe to make lubricant from residual gas and mineral oil, but since all recipes that used lubricant use now mineral oil, i don't see any use for residual gas.

Residual gas is what's left back in the machines after a process finished, you actually have a lot of this stuff in the oil and gas industry. There are recipes to use it directly like the lubricant and petroleum jelly otherwise you can feed it back to steamcracking and convert it to synthesis gas and then again to other hydrocarbons from there. It's similar to the waste water recycling cycle.

[mexmer]

Errr... add a chest in the middle?
It's kind of weird to use proceeded ore instead of ore.

well, did you though about logicstic for such thing?

of course, you need later ores for making filters anyways, so ultimately you need to do that, or use for examples ores from slury, which was solution i opted for.

[mexmer]

Yeah I think I will change the global override of lubricant back to what it was, so you have to produce lubricant from base mineral oil and residual gas.

is there any way to get sulfur than from floatation waste?
seems i'm quite lacking sulfur (or rather dioxide and acid) ... well i know about different processes that produce floation waste, but income of sulfur from waste is rather low, and since sulfur is not minable, and cannot be obtained directly from oil cracking anymore, seems to be issue when it comes to advanced electronic.

You can get sulfur from cracking the acid gas you get from the gas refinery. Like I said I'm thinking about adding another process from coal, but havent thought that through.

Can you please add recipes that uses processed ore to petrochem?

for example feric chlorid needs iron ore, but since i put ore from sorter directly to procesing plant, i don't have such thing in my logistic network.

I will do with the smelting mod eventually, the powdered ores will be in there and they will go into the chemical recipes.

that will be nice, they could be also used for filters, will maybe make more sense, than using raw ore in filter.

Yeah I think I will change the global override of lubricant back to what it was, so you have to produce lubricant from base mineral oil and residual gas.

also one question, what's exactly residual gas used for?

there is recipe to make lubricant from residual gas and mineral oil, but since all recipes that used lubricant use now mineral oil, i don't see any use for residual gas.

Residual gas is what's left back in the machines after a process finished, you actually have a lot of this stuff in the oil and gas industry. There are recipes to use it directly like the lubricant and petroleum jelly otherwise you can feed it back to steamcracking and convert it to synthesis gas and then again to other hydrocarbons from there. It's similar to the waste water recycling cycle.

yes i was missing research for that, found them now. thanks

[Nilaus]

is there any way to get sulfur than from floatation waste?
seems i'm quite lacking sulfur (or rather dioxide and acid) ... well i know about different processes that produce floation waste, but income of sulfur from waste is rather low, and since sulfur is not minable, and cannot be obtained directly from oil cracking anymore, seems to be issue when it comes to advanced electronic.

I found that I had more than enough Sulphur throughout the game unlike a regular game where i need to sacrifice Oil to get it.

The Floatation Waste will provide a lot of it and when you use the sulphur it results in more waste hence it only actually uses about ½ of the needed sulphur due to the Waste water.
In the beginning I was concerned about using my precious Sulphuric acid for anything but batteries, but it is so abundant that I currently have 200k stockpiled an more than I need floating around in tanks here and there.

[zekthemad]

In petrochem, is there any way to use/crack acid gas without using the green metal catalyst? I can't find any other recipe that uses it and I didn't want to use silver and aluminum on it until later in my playthrough (since I don't have either yet) Guess I just void it?

[Arch666Angel]

In petrochem, is there any way to use/crack acid gas without using the green metal catalyst? I can't find any other recipe that uses it and I didn't want to use silver and aluminum on it until later in my playthrough (since I don't have either yet) Guess I just void it?

Void/Flare or store for later cracking, in the real world oil industry acid gas would be flared most of the times.

[Breith]

In petrochem, is there any way to use/crack acid gas without using the green metal catalyst? I can't find any other recipe that uses it and I didn't want to use silver and aluminum on it until later in my playthrough (since I don't have either yet) Guess I just void it?

My option is one storage tank + overflow valve + flare. It works really well.

[Wildejackson]

Why can't we reliably get different coloured geodes from different ore refining recipes like we used to? I never found it to be difficult and rather found it quite enjoyable.

[Ratzap]

I managed to salvage a save from 0.13.19 that had processing in it. 4 console commands and 2 hours of cleanup is better than flushing 28 hours of play.

[Arch666Angel]

[orzelek]

I started playing with smelting beta and have a question.
There are 2 early techs for advanced copper and iron smelting. And currently I don't see whats the purpose behind them.
Iron one takes 5 iron/2 coke to make 5 ingots then you can melt them 1:1 and smelt melterd iron 1:1 to plates. It's 3 recipes that net 1:1 ore to iron conversion. Simlarly advanced copper recipe is also 1:1 ore to plates going through 3 recipes.

And with whole set of angel's mods you'll need to sort the saphirite and/or stiratite to get the actual ores while direct smelting of crushed ores nets plates in 3:2 ratio.

Are those recipes not meant for actual use and only to produce ingots that you can process further in next steps?

Edit:
That picture looks neat. What is it?

[Arch666Angel]

I started playing with smelting beta and have a question.
There are 2 early techs for advanced copper and iron smelting. And currently I don't see whats the purpose behind them.
Iron one takes 5 iron/2 coke to make 5 ingots then you can melt them 1:1 and smelt melterd iron 1:1 to plates. It's 3 recipes that net 1:1 ore to iron conversion. Simlarly advanced copper recipe is also 1:1 ore to plates going through 3 recipes.

And with whole set of angel's mods you'll need to sort the saphirite and/or stiratite to get the actual ores while direct smelting of crushed ores nets plates in 3:2 ratio.

Are those recipes not meant for actual use and only to produce ingots that you can process further in next steps?

Edit:
That picture looks neat. What is it?

The smelting steps are faster if going at full throughput, vanilla plates recipes are 1 per 3,5 seconds, casting machines will pump out 2 per 4 seconds. Also yes it's to expand later to make alloys from ingots, so there will be different steel mixtures, another things is you can get interesting setups because of the fact that the metal can go into pipes (casting machines and smelter will cooling water sometime in the future too).

That hopefully will be a cargo robot when I figure out how to put together the sprite sheet for it

[mexmer]

The smelting steps are faster if going at full throughput, vanilla plates recipes are 1 per 3,5 seconds, casting machines will pump out 2 per 4 seconds. Also yes it's to expand later to make alloys from ingots, so there will be different steel mixtures, another things is you can get interesting setups because of the fact that the metal can go into pipes (casting machines and smelter will cooling water sometime in the future too).

That hopefully will be a cargo robot when I figure out how to put together the sprite sheet for it

unfortunately that difference is barely noticeable. mind people even now just stacking lot of smelters in line for basic ores (like 10-14 smelters dual line). - not critizing, just saying ... unless there is other purpose for that, it will not be used

liquification of metal sounds good tho', except current fluid system mechanic (and i mean factorio), seems still wonky to me. with proper pumping engine and bombs 20 unit tubes, might work tho'

[orzelek]

It's not only that difference is not tha big.
At the stage of game you get this tech it would be difficult to get full throughput on those recipes since you have only basic inserters
And required material investment compared to crusher+smelters is really big.
Building big complex to gain few plates per second of throughput (and lose the ore to plates efficiency) is really not useful.

[Arch666Angel]

It's not only that difference is not tha big.
At the stage of game you get this tech it would be difficult to get full throughput on those recipes since you have only basic inserters
And required material investment compared to crusher+smelters is really big.
Building big complex to gain few plates per second of throughput (and lose the ore to plates efficiency) is really not useful.

You wont get the 50% yield increase with the regular smelting

[Ratzap]

The smelting steps are faster if going at full throughput, vanilla plates recipes are 1 per 3,5 seconds, casting machines will pump out 2 per 4 seconds. Also yes it's to expand later to make alloys from ingots, so there will be different steel mixtures, another things is you can get interesting setups because of the fact that the metal can go into pipes (casting machines and smelter will cooling water sometime in the future too).

That hopefully will be a cargo robot when I figure out how to put together the sprite sheet for it

unfortunately that difference is barely noticeable. mind people even now just stacking lot of smelters in line for basic ores (like 10-14 smelters dual line). - not critizing, just saying ... unless there is other purpose for that, it will not be used

liquification of metal sounds good tho', except current fluid system mechanic (and i mean factorio), seems still wonky to me. with proper pumping engine and bombs 20 unit tubes, might work tho'

The 20 unit pipes aren't inherently faster but they do store more per pipe chunk. The casting units use 2 liquid every 4 seconds, you'd need 120 of them to saturate the throughput of 1 normal iron pipe without pumps. If you use small pumps you half that because they are garbage but even then you'd be producing 30 plates a second +/- crafting speed from mk of unit. The size of the gear needed to process, pellet, ingot and cast that would be pretty bloody enourmous - in short, the pipes are not the problem.

I've got a setup at the moment making 280 plates a minute. Not much compared to a 'standard' setup of say 22 steel furnaces getting ore stuffed into them but then you don't add mods like this if you want faster than stock with similar or smaller footprint.

[Arch666Angel]

The smelting steps are faster if going at full throughput, vanilla plates recipes are 1 per 3,5 seconds, casting machines will pump out 2 per 4 seconds. Also yes it's to expand later to make alloys from ingots, so there will be different steel mixtures, another things is you can get interesting setups because of the fact that the metal can go into pipes (casting machines and smelter will cooling water sometime in the future too).

That hopefully will be a cargo robot when I figure out how to put together the sprite sheet for it

unfortunately that difference is barely noticeable. mind people even now just stacking lot of smelters in line for basic ores (like 10-14 smelters dual line). - not critizing, just saying ... unless there is other purpose for that, it will not be used

liquification of metal sounds good tho', except current fluid system mechanic (and i mean factorio), seems still wonky to me. with proper pumping engine and bombs 20 unit tubes, might work tho'

The 20 unit pipes aren't inherently faster but they do store more per pipe chunk. The casting units use 2 liquid every 4 seconds, you'd need 120 of them to saturate the throughput of 1 normal iron pipe without pumps. If you use small pumps you half that because they are garbage but even then you'd be producing 30 plates a second +/- crafting speed from mk of unit. The size of the gear needed to process, pellet, ingot and cast that would be pretty bloody enourmous - in short, the pipes are not the problem.

I've got a setup at the moment making 280 plates a minute. Not much compared to a 'standard' setup of say 22 steel furnaces getting ore stuffed into them but then you don't add mods like this if you want faster than stock with similar or smaller footprint.

Space will never be an issue in factorio, except you make it an issue or use mods like factorissimo What I do find interesting and intriguing about it is the possibility to for example cast plates locally and just bus the fluid for example (which in the extreme might be unrealistic, but a fun mechanic after all). Also smelting is not done yet, my end goal is to diversify it more, so you have an intermediate step inbetween casting and plates, where the yet to do strand casting machine comes into play, so you can produce coils either sheet or cable and bus that which you then can turn into a larger number of metal sheet/cable. Like a compressed form of these materials.

Edit: And the ingot system allows for easy addition of any alloy made from the elements present as ingots.

[orzelek]

With current fluid mechanics here noone will try to bus fluid unless necessary. It's simply to tricky.
And I don't expect 50% increase from first step.. but I think it's called advanced smelting so there should be some benefit. And speed is not really a benefit in this case since speed to area ratio is still worse and ore to plates efficiency is also worse then basic crushed ore smelting.

At the start of game you are not looking for speed especially if it results in much higher area requirements. If it gave 10-15% gain then it would be worthwile to use - for now it's a novelty until you can get into next stage that will give actual benefits.

From previous longer game it was still much more convenient to run main iron and copper from crushed ore directly. It might be the fact that sorting is currently done in a way thats non viable for mass production. It's required for ore variety and there it will be used but for mass iron/copper ore smelting it's useless due to amount of work and ore required to produce a lot of iron/copper ores. Additional slag can be made into ores so thats a bonus when you are in position that one of materials is hard to obtain.
I did not use the merged crushed ores sorting (like saphirite and jivolite to iron ore) so maybe thats a better way for mass iron/copper production.