Ideas to Avoid Turret Creeping

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ssilk
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Ideas to Avoid Turret Creeping

Post by ssilk » Sat Sep 17, 2016 8:50 pm

Turret Creep (also Tower Creep) is, when a player places turrets more and more near to a biter nest until he is able to kill the nest by himself (or with turrets only).

There are Pros and Cons to this.

Pros:
- This is sometimes the only strategy, that works.
- It's super easy, if doing it right, the danger to be killed is low.
- It is affordable.

Cons:
- This is an unfair strategy, cause the natives are too dumb to recognize that.
- Too easy and after a while boring. (Build turrets, wait, build more turrets, wait...).
- It's too cheap.
- This is near to cheating.

This has been discussed many times. Not all discussion threads have been found, I'm sorry.

Current state of discussion: As the game currently is (September 2016), this is needed. For beginners and in some situations you need this to survive/continue the game. It doesn't make the game more interesting to forbid this in general.

(Remember: This is just a game, not inquisition. :))


Suggestions and Discussions Around this Subject
(searched also on other boards than Suggestions!)

viewtopic.php?f=16&t=21705&hilit=turret+creep Overpowered strategies
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=2501 If you thought tower creeping was dull...
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=2508 In-game AI changes
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3514&hilit=turret+creep Multiple turret types/general turret rebalance
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4200&hilit=turret+creep%2A Comprehensive overview of how artillery could be implemented
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=5757 Reinventing Worms
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=6090 Turret creeping - I feel SOOOO stupid.
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10032&hilit=turret+creep Post-Place Deployment delay for placed buildings (& Turrets)
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=10334 Turret Warmup After Placement
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=12570&hilit=turret+creep%2A Hostile plants
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=15999&hilit=turret+creep Target prioritising of turrets
viewtopic.php?f=5&t=20322&hilit=tower+creep Question for the devs regarding late game plans
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=21705&hilit=turret+creep Overpowered strategies
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=23378&hilit=turret+creep Balancing Combat Drones vs Roboport Laser Turrets
viewtopic.php?f=33&t=23467 No-Build Zones
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23653 11 Combat Improvement Ideas
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=26529 Enemy buildings should spread creep to avoid placing turrets
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=29129 Biters: make them easier to maze, slower, tougher.
viewtopic.php?f=16&t=29844&hilit=turret+creep Laser turret suggestion
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=32834 Not to be able to build near alien spawns

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https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Nexela/StrictEngagements

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Supercheese
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Re: Ideas to Avoid Turret Creeping

Post by Supercheese » Sun Sep 18, 2016 8:54 pm

I'd like to point out that my EMP Biters mod makes turret creep much more challenging when facing Big Worms, since they have a very high chance to disable your turrets with their EMP spit. ;)

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Re: Ideas to Avoid Turret Creeping

Post by steinio » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:01 am

Turret creep is so yesteryear.

Take Autofill and Long Reach and mass place the turrets like there is no tomorrow.
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Re: Ideas to Avoid Turret Creeping

Post by Deadly-Bagel » Mon Sep 19, 2016 10:38 am

Rather than directly preventing this strategy would it not be wiser to address the underlying problems with combat - the biggest "problem" with turret creeping is that before the combat shotgun it is the most cost effective, fastest and safest means of clearing nests.

For example dramatically increasing spawners' resistance to laser and regular damage but giving them a large weakness to explosives should actually make clearing nests easier in the early stages of the game even without turret creeping. You could set up a defensive line of turrets to deal with biters while you bomb the nests but that's not exactly an "unhealthy" option.

Anything else you try to do, there are ways around it. Setup times? No problem, start far enough back that they don't aggro you, wait for setup, creep forward as each row is ready. Slower but if it's the only viable option it will be used, only now the player resents having to do it and so resents the game itself.
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Re: Ideas to Avoid Turret Creeping

Post by hitzu » Mon Sep 19, 2016 12:58 pm

In WoW there is concept of "battle state". When you're in battle, you can't make some actions like teleporting or resurrecting others. This could be implemented in Factorio to prevent building. But I don't know what to do with bots then.

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Re: Ideas to Avoid Turret Creeping

Post by Deadly-Bagel » Mon Sep 19, 2016 3:44 pm

If you are turret creeping you typically aren't in combat anyway as you are allowing your turrets to do the work for you. You can't disable building just because there are biters around because you should be able to replace broken walls and turrets in your own base during a biter attack. While this could be disabled it would feel somewhat artificial.
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Re: Ideas to Avoid Turret Creeping

Post by hitzu » Mon Sep 19, 2016 4:31 pm

There was a suggestion of "Zerg slime" around spawners which prevents from building there.

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Re: Ideas to Avoid Turret Creeping

Post by ssilk » Mon Sep 19, 2016 5:00 pm

Cool suggestion: Eatable MOUSE-pointers.
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Re: Ideas to Avoid Turret Creeping

Post by hitzu » Mon Sep 19, 2016 7:07 pm

ssilk wrote:You mean that: viewtopic.php?f=16&t=29844&p=194112&hil ... me#p194112 ?
See above!
It was suggested many times in different topics and on Reddit. I don't know why devs ignore this problem so long.

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Re: Ideas to Avoid Turret Creeping

Post by steinio » Mon Sep 19, 2016 8:17 pm

Because there is no problem.

It only seems you feel that the game is to easy but this depends on play style.
You can't change the game to only please you.

If you like it harder, set the biter base frequency higher.
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Re: Ideas to Avoid Turret Creeping

Post by hitzu » Tue Sep 20, 2016 12:34 pm

steinio wrote:Because there is no problem.
Was the "victory pole" a problem? It was and now it is fixed. But some would argue it was just a playstyle.

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Re: Ideas to Avoid Turret Creeping

Post by thereaverofdarkness » Mon Jan 09, 2017 12:10 am

I think there should be time after placing buildings before they come online, even if it's only a few seconds. Such time constraints are a major component of RTS games which feel rather similar to Factorio in terms of building.

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