Development and Discussion

[Arch666Angel]

Waiting for changing in Processing mod, Refinering mod was updated as can saw
Waste water with big amount of sulfur is still big problem if i don't want to use clarifier

And question

Bob mod's have recipe for sulfuric acid:
5 sulfur + 5 oxygen = 5 sulfuric dioxide (strange - why its dioxide (!!!) not monooxide - if we want exactly dioxide we need 10 oxygen not 5 oxygen, right? )
And Petrochem mod have recipe:
1 sulfur + 5 oxygen = 5 sulfuric dioxide


Can someone explain to me which recipie is right, because recipe from Petrochem mod looks like impossible from the point of view of chemical reactions, may Arch666Angel can did mistake?

Neither recipe is right, or wrong for that matter. The game (wisely, I would say) does not include standardized units for its ingredients. If you assume they're measured by mass, that leads to different ratios than if they're measured by volume (presumably at standard temperature and pressure), which leads to different ratios than if they're measured in moles. And even if you've decided that everything should be measured in a particular way (let's say in kilograms for the sake of argument), there is still no indication that an arbitrary unit of Oxygen is the same number of kilograms as an arbitrary unit of Sulfur. So whoever makes the recipes can decide on the ratios for game balance reasons rather than realism reasons, because there is no way to measure how realistic a ratio is. Angel has simply decided that a unit of Sulfur is 5 times as much as Bob did. If it bothers you, just assume that the process in the Bob's recipe is less efficient, and wastes 80% of the Sulfur input as unwanted byproducts (released as pollution). Or if you want to expend the effort, you can just write a simple mini-mod to override one recipe to match the other (whichever way around you feel is better).

I love you.

[mexmer]

Waiting for changing in Processing mod, Refinering mod was updated as can saw
Waste water with big amount of sulfur is still big problem if i don't want to use clarifier

And question

Bob mod's have recipe for sulfuric acid:
5 sulfur + 5 oxygen = 5 sulfuric dioxide (strange - why its dioxide (!!!) not monooxide - if we want exactly dioxide we need 10 oxygen not 5 oxygen, right? )
And Petrochem mod have recipe:
1 sulfur + 5 oxygen = 5 sulfuric dioxide


Can someone explain to me which recipie is right, because recipe from Petrochem mod looks like impossible from the point of view of chemical reactions, may Arch666Angel can did mistake?

Neither recipe is right, or wrong for that matter. The game (wisely, I would say) does not include standardized units for its ingredients. If you assume they're measured by mass, that leads to different ratios than if they're measured by volume (presumably at standard temperature and pressure), which leads to different ratios than if they're measured in moles. And even if you've decided that everything should be measured in a particular way (let's say in kilograms for the sake of argument), there is still no indication that an arbitrary unit of Oxygen is the same number of kilograms as an arbitrary unit of Sulfur. So whoever makes the recipes can decide on the ratios for game balance reasons rather than realism reasons, because there is no way to measure how realistic a ratio is. Angel has simply decided that a unit of Sulfur is 5 times as much as Bob did. If it bothers you, just assume that the process in the Bob's recipe is less efficient, and wastes 80% of the Sulfur input as unwanted byproducts (released as pollution). Or if you want to expend the effort, you can just write a simple mini-mod to override one recipe to match the other (whichever way around you feel is better).

i see, didn't occur to me, those are from different mods ... thanks for explanation.

[Nexela]

If anyone is interested I have posted a pre-release of Omnibarrels expanded with BobsMods/Petrochem enhanments
for details see viewtopic.php?f=51&t=32683

[iceman_1212]

With regular resources the miner sums up the amount of ore the miner has in its area, but the miner will only mine one random tile at a time. With infinite resources the game does the same, so it sums up the yield of the tiles the miner is placed up on, but will only mine one random tile at a time, so the displayed yield is more than misleading. As far as I understand the whole mechanic when the yield drops below 100% you get a chance to produce an ore each time the miner cycles. So with 50% yield you have a 50% chance to get an ore. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Ah, okay! This is very helpful. So it sounds like way to calculate the expected ore per sec of a drill's coverage area would be to multiply each covered ore tile's rate with its yield, sum these across all covered tiles, and divide by the total number of ore tiles to arrive at the expected base rate (since we can only mine from one ore tile at a time - which is the key piece of info). We can then apply the drill's mining stats to this figure to get to the realized in-game rate. Not that I will be doing this in-game ofc but it is very useful to understand how stuff works under the hood. Suffice it to say that bob's regular mining drills are FAR superior to bob's large area mining drills when a deposit has only infinite ore tiles left

Thank you for the quick response, much appreciated

I have one other question - I feel a bit silly asking as it seems so basic - how do I get access to Ore Refinery 3? I see that such a building exists because it shows up as an item that can be filtered by the filter inserter but I have yet to see it in the tech tree. And I'm almost through the tech tree atm =/ (finishing up ion cannon research atm, after which only logistics tech left, and i don't plan to do research that for this particular run )

[mexmer]

I have one other question - I feel a bit silly asking as it seems so basic - how do I get access to Ore Refinery 3? I see that such a building exists because it shows up as an item that can be filtered by the filter inserter but I have yet to see it in the tech tree. And I'm almost through the tech tree atm =/ (finishing up ion cannon research atm, after which only logistics tech left, and i don't plan to do research that for this particular run )

not sure what you mean by "ore refinery" i don't have such building, but maybe this will answer your question.
Ore sorting facility MK3 comes from Advanced Ore Refinining 2, there is also level 3 and 4 (not researched yet). not sure if higher levels are not from dependencies on bobs tho. i use all bobs and from angels ore, processing, refining and silos in most games.

i see, i missed one category in research, it's under thermal refining and level 2 under advanced ore refining 4, no further advancements

seems already answered ... i was just puzzled what i'm missing

[Arch666Angel]

With regular resources the miner sums up the amount of ore the miner has in its area, but the miner will only mine one random tile at a time. With infinite resources the game does the same, so it sums up the yield of the tiles the miner is placed up on, but will only mine one random tile at a time, so the displayed yield is more than misleading. As far as I understand the whole mechanic when the yield drops below 100% you get a chance to produce an ore each time the miner cycles. So with 50% yield you have a 50% chance to get an ore. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Ah, okay! This is very helpful. So it sounds like way to calculate the expected ore per sec of a drill's coverage area would be to multiply each covered ore tile's rate with its yield, sum these across all covered tiles, and divide by the total number of ore tiles to arrive at the expected base rate (since we can only mine from one ore tile at a time - which is the key piece of info). We can then apply the drill's mining stats to this figure to get to the realized in-game rate. Not that I will be doing this in-game ofc but it is very useful to understand how stuff works under the hood. Suffice it to say that bob's regular mining drills are FAR superior to bob's large area mining drills when a deposit has only infinite ore tiles left

Thank you for the quick response, much appreciated

I have one other question - I feel a bit silly asking as it seems so basic - how do I get access to Ore Refinery 3? I see that such a building exists because it shows up as an item that can be filtered by the filter inserter but I have yet to see it in the tech tree. And I'm almost through the tech tree atm =/ (finishing up ion cannon research atm, after which only logistics tech left, and i don't plan to do research that for this particular run )

There is a point with bobs later miner when the dropping in infinite yield breaks, because they mine so fast that it doesn't matter if there is a chance on getting an output. I did put a bit of experimental config option into infinite ores that halves the chance on top of the chance introduced by the infinite yield, havent tested it though.

The refinery 3 was defined but I never made it avaiable ingame and did remove the definitions for it in the latest version, since I dont feel it's needed.

[Psawhn]

I had found your flowchart a little confusing because the icons are a little small and they're unlabelled. In-game it seems that a recipe with multiple products won't tell you exactly what each product is, so if you haven't memorized them all it's hard to figure everything out.

So I made a series of flowcharts for each stage of refining: viewtopic.php?f=185&t=32800. Please let me know if there are any errors or if there are things you think should be changed.

[Daxter573]

If anyone is interested I have posted a pre-release of Omnibarrels expanded with BobsMods/Petrochem enhanments
for details see viewtopic.php?f=51&t=32683

Thank you so much!!

[aklesey1]

1) Where to use Hydrofluoric Acid?
2) Where to use Ammonium Cloride Gas?
the possibility of using these elements will appear in the future?
I think this proccesing chain with nitrogen not finished now

[aklesey1]

Arch666Angel how do you feel about change Youki Industries mod
I know that your refining mod has recipie to produce contaminated water from Youki industries mod and we need vanilla water not purified water

I'm asking because Refining mod now have changes for bob mods

Changelog
---0.3.1
-replaced water in bob chemical recipes with purified water
-added some localization strings
-removed the water-pump-jack tech if enabled in bobs

Yuoki mod also has recipies which using vanilla water

[Arch666Angel]

1) Where to use Hydrofluoric Acid?
2) Where to use Ammonium Cloride Gas?
the possibility of using these elements will appear in the future?
I think this proccesing chain with nitrogen not finished now

They will be used in the smelting mod, I will add a check for them before finally putting the mod out there.

---
Petrochems

I added most of the overrides for bobs, also added new recipes or changed them where it was logical (for example for glycerol production and fertiliser).
Also added a new building, my take on the electrolyser:


And not implemented but already more or less finished model, the wind-trap/air-filter. It will provide filtered/compressed air for the nitrogen separation and I'm thinking about adding compressed air to the floatation recipes as well.


---
Refining

On request I changed the icon for jivolite ore

[hoho]

Do you keep your current development work off from Github for now?

I sure hope you have decent backups, I just had my HDD blow up on me a few days ago

[Arch666Angel]

Do you keep your current development work off from Github for now?

I sure hope you have decent backups, I just had my HDD blow up on me a few days ago

I missused Github mostly for file hosting, since I can dump almost all the stuff on the modportal now it's not that usefull for me anymore. I do have backups on a second HDD

---
PetroChem 0.1.4
https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Arch666A ... spetrochem

[marginoferror]

Hi, I'm new to the mod (and Bob's mod, and Marathon -- using all three) and have to ask a bit of an elementary question.

Is there any way to use the ore sorter before you have an electronics processing chain sufficient to create filter inserters? So far I've managed filtering by using regular inserters hooked directly up to machines that only need one of the types of inputs on the belt. For instance, crushed ore gets picked up by the ore sorter, but crushed slag does not, so I can tenuously filter them by ensuring my input to the ore sorter is fast enough to keep up with all output.

However, the ore sorter produces two types of ore on the same line, both of which are valid inputs for smelters. So my smelters immediately get jammed as the inserter takes one copper, then one iron and hangs.

Is there any way around this without filter inserters?

[Exasperation]

If you also have the processing mod installed you can use processing plants to sort the sorter output for smelting; that's what I do and it works really well. Three processing plants (two for primary ore, one for secondary) can handle all the output from two sorters, take up about the same amount of space across, and let you sort the ore onto separate belts or into furnaces without requiring blue circuits. As a bonus, extra output!

[marginoferror]

If you also have the processing mod installed you can use processing plants to sort the sorter output for smelting; that's what I do and it works really well. Three processing plants (two for primary ore, one for secondary) can handle all the output from two sorters, take up about the same amount of space across, and let you sort the ore onto separate belts or into furnaces without requiring blue circuits. As a bonus, extra output!

That's a good idea, although I think the processing mod doesn't yet support Factorio 0.14 yet (and the others do).

[mexmer]

If you also have the processing mod installed you can use processing plants to sort the sorter output for smelting; that's what I do and it works really well. Three processing plants (two for primary ore, one for secondary) can handle all the output from two sorters, take up about the same amount of space across, and let you sort the ore onto separate belts or into furnaces without requiring blue circuits. As a bonus, extra output!

That's a good idea, although I think the processing mod doesn't yet support Factorio 0.14 yet (and the others do).

i'm using it on 0.14, just open mod, edit info.json, and change factorio version from 0.13 to 0.14

as for procesing, problem with sorter comes with bobmonium and rubyriu tho, you will need tin and lead for electronics, and those don't have procesing factory until ore procesing 2, which is quite far in chain (if we talking about starting phase, that is). for rubyrium you can put furnace directly after sorter, since it sorts zinc and lead, lead will smel, and zinc will go to box

from bobmonium it sorts quartz and tin, which both go to smelter for those just wait until you have some "extra" sorted ores, after you do, place smelters, then insert stack of ore in each one, it should continue to fill with same ore later, when ore in input drops lows.

and don't forget to prepare slag box for each of them, and later you can process it. you might destroy box with slag, but i would not do that, since it comes handy later, when you start doing filtration. same goes for crushed stones. i just make back stone from them (since it occupies less space and also since you will need stone bricks for lot of buildins anyways, so you want to smelt it afterwards)

[hoho]

I missused Github mostly for file hosting, since I can dump almost all the stuff on the modportal now it's not that usefull for me anymore. I do have backups on a second HDD

Good that you have backups. Sad that I can't use prerelease versions

PetroChem 0.1.4
https://mods.factorio.com/mods/Arch666A ... spetrochem

Yay, update!

Only problem I noticed was that in your angels-petrochem-override you set

Code: Select all

data.raw["technology"]["sulfur-processing"]=nil

This causes issues with some other mods that use/depend on Bobs stuff, including his own Bob's revmap. N-Tech Chemistry probably also won't particuarly like it.

[DukeAl]

Only problem I noticed was that in your angels-petrochem-override you set

Code: Select all

data.raw["technology"]["sulfur-processing"]=nil

This causes issues with some other mods that use/depend on Bobs stuff, including his own Bob's revmap. N-Tech Chemistry probably also won't particuarly like it.

Yep, Uranium Power too refuses to load together with PetroChem.
(Error in assignID, technology with name 'sulfur-processing' does not exist.)

But the new buildings look great.

[afk2minute]

Will you change bobmonium and rubyte ore?
They are quite similar now, maybe make rubite more red in colour (both in game and icons)?