Toggle from crafting to one-time logistic requests

[Lilly]

TL;DR: Add one-time requests and an overview of the logistics network as new functionality to the crafting panel and simplify the character logistics GUI.

This is yet another suggestion for the already long list of Additions to the Character Logistic Slots ideas and simultaneously also for the list of Detach Logistic Item Listing From Right Pane ideas. It adds a switch to the crafting GUI to toggle between crafting and one-time requesting from the logistics network. Furthermore, it presents a simplified and (hopefully) more intuitive redesign of the Character Logistics user interface. Note: the provided details are for illustrative purposes (mostly).

Why?
While trying to get the no-hand-crafting achievement, I open my inventory. While looking to the crafting panel on the right, I see all this dialog space wasted on item crafting and realize that I will never use for the remainder of this game. If only I could toggle a switch and instead of crafting, it would request the item from the logistics network? Once the logistics network is set-up, I might even stop hand crafting in regular games. I want to build 10 new Chemical plants? Click, click and they are immediately shipped and ready to build. As a bonus, I get all this free inventory space that I don't need for all those crafting ingredients, which I used to carry around. After building the chemical plants, because it was a one-time request, I don't need to wait for another 10 that are being shipped to me, just so I can send them back again.

But what if there are only 8 Chemical plants available in the logistics network?
Well, remember in the crafting menu, there is a number telling how many items you could craft? That would now show the number of items available in the logistics network you're currently in. So even before I start requesting the items that I need for building, I will be able to see whether they are actually available. No longer would I have to search for a logistics chest, only to find out that the item I wanted to look for fell off the screen. I just open my inventory and it will all be presented to me in a very readable layout that I'm already familiar with.

Yeah, great idea, but wouldn't this make the inventory dialog even more complicated than it already is?
No. The filter selection pop-up can be removed and after rearranging and merging some stuff and changing some behaviour, we actually get something that is simpler than the current interface. While we're at it, why not fix some bugs and implement some often requested features:

• Bug: Requesting 200 Electronic circuits, but receive 201, such that they take up 2 slots in the inventory: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=4469
• Bug: Not being able to view all the contents of the logistics network: viewtopic.php?f=41&t=2632
• Bug: Items flickering in the list of logistics network contents: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=1222
• Feature: One-time/temporary logistics network request: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=3868 , viewtopic.php?f=6&t=13435 , viewtopic.php?f=6&t=15274
• Feature: Sufficient request slots for end-game: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=9212

What would it look like?

Simplified logistics GUI

logistics-gui.png (406.62 KiB) Viewed 10697 times

How would it work?
The "Requests" panel in the above picture shows that I have requested the logistics network to come pick up 1 Assembling machine and 7 inserters, while also bringing 15 Storage tanks. A logistics robot carrying 3 storage tanks is on its way to me. When it reaches me it drops all the storage tanks into my inventory, upon which the requested number goes down by 3 and will now display 12. If I had requested only 1 storage tank, then the robot would have dropped off only 1 and have carried the remaining 2 off to a nearby storage chest. In our case however, the logistics robot is no longer carrying anything and therefore immediately picks up the assembling machine. It removes the 1 assembling machine from my inventory in the left panel and simultaneously increments the number in the requests panel by 1. As the number of requested assembling machines is now 0, it is removed from the requests list. After the logistics robots have performed all my requests, the requests list is empty. Furthermore I will have exactly 50 inserters, 15 storage tanks and no assembling machines in my inventory. Note: another option would be to change this panel into a logistics request queue, similar to the hand-crafting queue. The benefit/drawback is that character logistics activity is immediately visible in the HUD.

The right panel used to be the crafting panel. At the top there is a now a switch that sets the behaviour of the panel. Currently it is set to "logistics" meaning that clicking items in the panel will cause them to be obtained from the logistics network, rather than from hand crafting. Instead of showing the maximum amount I can craft, each item shows the maximum amount that I can obtain from the logistics network. So this will show me the contents of the logistics network that I'm currently in. Currently the network contains 157 copper wire, 199 advanced circuits, 52 processing units and approximately 21000 copper ore. It also shows that there are no copper plates available. I want to know the exact amount of copper ore? The tool-tip will tell me. I want to know the number of inserters in the logistics network? I switch to the transportation tab. For the inserter the tool-tip (shown below) tells me that there are 3 bots on their way to me carrying 0 inserters total. It also tells me that a total of 52 inserters need to be moved to satisfy the demands of the requester chests in the network.

Logistics tool-tip for the inserter

tooltip.png (2.25 KiB) Viewed 10697 times

Where did the original logistics request slots/auto trash go?
So, I want to keep 30 inserters in my inventory, but never more than 50. I switch the right panel to "logistics" mode, go to the transportation tab and shift-/right-click on the inserter. A dialog will pop-up telling me how many inserters I have in my inventory, how many there are in the logistics network. It also contains 2 sliders for configuring the minimum and maximum bounds for the amount of inserters that I want to have in my inventory. There is also a slider with which I can set the amount of inserters that are currently requested. For the picture above it will point to -7. Those sliders are longer than the tiny slider in the original logistics/auto trash panel and therefore are easier to use. For the number of requested items, there is a switch to toggle between positive (deliver) and negative (trash) values. Periodically, the requested amount is updated & clamped, such that minimum <= inventory + requested <= maximum.

Logistics dialog for the inserter

dialog.png (29.79 KiB) Viewed 10697 times

Where did the trash slots go?
I don't know yet. One option is to be able to drop stacks in the requests panel slots, but as those don't contain stacks, it won't clear your hand when 'dropping' the stack. So it would behave differently than the trash slots that we have now. Another option is to put them back at the bottom of the requests panel, where they used to be. Though, I'm unsure what their behaviour should be. Of course, if the requests panel is replaced by a logistics request queue, then there is no panel to put the trash slots back into. Please drop a comment if you have an idea.

Why not use tabs instead of the crafting/logistics-switch?
The switch changes the behaviour of the panel. The GUI layout remains (mostly) the same. Furthermore, the category tab won't change when switching between crafting and logistics. If tabs where used, this would be inconsistent with how tabs work in real life. The switch also provides clear naming, so we won't confuse category tabs with behaviour modes.

[Engimage]

I find this a great idea. It would definitely simplify logistic network monitoring and requests. While automated logistic slots are cool for maintaining stuff that you use often like belts, really often you need to just request a one time delivery of a certain item which forces you into creating a temporary logistic request slot.

This idea is also a nice solution for logistic network item listing that will bring it in a nice categorized fashion like your handcraft.
While implementation may vary the general idea is cool.

To add to it I might offer to display a "delivery queue" like hand production queue that we see that will display current goods requested from the logistic network by both automated and manual requests.

Edit:

As an alternative I would offer using "Shift" key as a modifier to make requests from logistic network (and possibly toggle quantity display as well) so that:
Click = craft one
Rightclick = craft 5
Ctrl+Click = craft all
Ctrl-Rightclick = craft half
Shift+Click = order one from LN
Shift+Rightclick = order 5 from LN
Shift+Ctrl+Click = order all from LN
Shift+Ctrl+Rightclick = order half from LN

This will bring Shift modifier as a standard for bot-automated stuff like ghost building etc.

[Lilly]

To add to it I might offer to display a "delivery queue" like hand production queue that we see that will display current goods requested from the logistic network by both automated and manual requests.

Yesterday, I noticed how useful such a queue might be. I had ordered 50 copper ore from the network and a few bots came along and delivered 38. This made me wonder, is this all that was available in the network? Or will some other bots come and deliver the remaining 12? Currently, there is no way to answer this question, other than waiting. A delivery queue could definitely help here. Maybe show the items that are not available and cannot be delivered in red? For example:

Logistics Queue example

logistics-queue.png (37.1 KiB) Viewed 10672 times

[ssilk]

Hm. I like some of the aspects of this suggestion, the devs should definitely read it.
I think in general it is too complex. It introduces and mixes too many different things together. Such changes can be made only in small steps and because of that the result will look quite different to this.

[bk5115545]

I also really like the shift+click (and shift+right click) as a hotkey for requesting an item from the network.

[Deadly-Bagel]

This is a fantastic idea, lose track of how many times I just want ONE roboport or refinery or something, so I set up a logistic request and 5 get delivered before I can fix it.

+1 for just using the same screen and having a separate key binding to request instead of craft, Lazy Bastard players can then remap left click to request and ctrl left click to craft. Requested items could be shown in the empty space under the character logistic slots and be scrollable.

The numbers for each item in the Crafting window could then be changed to something like "37 (200)" meaning you can craft 37 of the item and there are 200 in the logistic network, obviously the latter only appears when you research logistics.

[Lilly]

Hm. I like some of the aspects of this suggestion, the devs should definitely read it.
I think in general it is too complex. It introduces and mixes too many different things together. Such changes can be made only in small steps and because of that the result will look quite different to this.

What the result will be is up to the developers, of course. I'd already be very, very happy if they implemented one-time logistics network requests that work similar to hand crafting and combined this with an overview of the network's contents. Anything else, such as the number of incoming bots, would just be a bonus. Hopefully, my idea provides a starting point for the developers that they can think about, change, improve upon and maybe someday implement. I don't think that the path towards implementation would be a big issue. The devs have made big changes in the past, for example: circuit network, multiplayer. Of course, if the end-result is too complex, then that would be a problem. Especially as I hoped that my suggestion would help to reduce the complexity.

As an alternative I would offer using "Shift" key as a modifier to make requests from logistic network (and possibly toggle quantity display as well) [...] This will bring Shift modifier as a standard for bot-automated stuff like ghost building etc.

I'd rather not use a modifier key (e.g. shift) to choose between hand-crafting or one-time request. It doubles the number of key combinations, resulting in a total of 8, which have to be listed in the crafting menu's tool-tip. It is also more prone to errors, for example holding shift instead of ctrl. I still agree that a hot-key for switching between the two modes would be useful. Maybe use 'r', which is used for rotating and therefore has little use in the inventory screen?

[Deadly-Bagel]

I'd rather not use a modifier key (e.g. shift) to choose between hand-crafting or one-time request. It doubles the number of key combinations, resulting in a total of 8, which have to be listed in the crafting menu's tool-tip. It is also more prone to errors, for example holding shift instead of ctrl. I still agree that a hot-key for switching between the two modes would be useful. Maybe use 'r', which is used for rotating and therefore has little use in the inventory screen?

Hmmm, this is a good point. To me the idea of a second tab is too clunky so I don't really like that either. Maybe a tickbox "Request before crafting" that can be easily toggled and so when you click an item, it first requests any available units in the logistic system. When there isn't any it adds to the crafting queue instead.

Now the only problem is that's made it easy to accidentally craft something in a Lazy Bastard run...

[bk5115545]

Hmmm, this is a good point. To me the idea of a second tab is too clunky so I don't really like that either. Maybe a tickbox "Request before crafting" that can be easily toggled and so when you click an item, it first requests any available units in the logistic system. When there isn't any it adds to the crafting queue instead.

Now the only problem is that's made it easy to accidentally craft something in a Lazy Bastard run...

There's also the issue of an item being available in the network but you're at an outpost (out of network range or on a different network).

[Deadly-Bagel]

That's not a problem as the interface would only show for and interact with the logistic network the player is standing in. If it's not available there it doesn't let you request it.

[bk5115545]

That's not a problem as the interface would only show for and interact with the logistic network the player is standing in. If it's not available there it doesn't let you request it.

Then what does the game do when you leave that network and go to another before the item arrives.
Does the game move the request to the new network if it can provide it? Does the game cancel the request (and does it notify you)?
Hard Question: What does the game do if you are standing in multiple logistic networks (maybe via a mod since I'm not sure clever overlap of roboports can even do this)?

I don't want to sound pessimistic as I would REALLY love this feature but the more edge-cases that are ironed out before the devs (maybe) attack this the better.

[Deadly-Bagel]

I'm not sure multiple logistic networks can be a thing, once you overlap them they merge. Don't know if even mods can get around that without manually creating a new type of network which would ignore logistic requests by default anyway.

When you leave the network the request would be cancelled. Don't see why this would be a problem or why you would want an alternative. If requested items show in the crafting queue, maybe with a different background or something, it could flash a red cross for a few moments and maybe play the error noise before disappearing.

[Lilly]

My opinion is that you should be able to request more of an item than is currently available in the network. For example, if there are only 15 cargo wagons in your network, but you need 20, then you can request 20. The first 15 will be delivered as soon as possible, while the remaining 5 cargo wagons will be delivered once they're produced and available in the logistics network. In this case the logistics network could list the number of available cargo wagons as -5 and the 'logistics network request queue' (i.e. the logistics network equivalent to the hand-crafting queue) would show a cargo wagon with green background and the number 15 and a cargo wagon with red background and the number 5. So there is a backorder of 5 cargo wagons. With this behaviour, it should also be possible to request items that are not currently available in the network. If those backorders are propagated to the circuit network, then you can even have production-on-demand.

Moving out of the logistics network range has a similar effect as when the logistics network suddenly did not contain any items any more. As you can request more items than available, no requests need to be cancelled (though the deliveries that were in progress are cancelled) and any pending requests are simply shown in the request queue as backorder. This also works as a visual cue to notify the player that he moved outside the network range. To make this work more seamlessly, moving into a logistics network, should check the bots with requested items and an active 'store item in active provider chest' job and change their job to 'deliver to player'.

Afaik, logistic networks cannot overlap, at least not currently in vanilla (i.e. without mods). However, there have been feature requests for overlapping logistics networks, so it makes sense to think about how it might work. If I follow the same reasoning as with being out of range, then being in multiple networks simultaneously will cause the gui to show the sum/total contents of all those logistics networks (it is shown as-if the networks were merged). Requests will then be delivered by any of the networks.

[Deadly-Bagel]

That makes sense. I might only have 200 laser towers in storage but I want to take 400 to build a massive wall, so I request 400 and the network passively supplies me as production allows. I will concede that point =)

[ssilk]

In this case the logistics network could list the number of available cargo wagons as -5 and the 'logistics network request queue' (i.e. the logistics network equivalent to the hand-crafting queue) would show a cargo wagon with green background and the number 15 and a cargo wagon with red background and the number 5. So there is a backorder of 5 cargo wagons. With this behaviour, it should also be possible to request items that are not currently available in the network. If those backorders are propagated to the circuit network, then you can even have production-on-demand.

I like this idea. It makes much sense!

[Deadly-Bagel]

To bring the rest of the game in line with it, would it make sense for the logistic network to behave the same? If you have a requester chest asking for 100 items and there are only 30 in the network, should the network not show -70 items? This would allow for very powerful and efficient logistic base design.

Although sometimes I just set a chest to ask for 20,000 of something because that chest will always be the only requester of that item (such as research asking for alien artefacts if I'm not using modules), and there are things like oil stations that have requests for barrels that you don't necessarily need to fulfil. Not sure if it would really be necessary to have a toggle on this feature as it would just mean it's hiding the display of that item, but perhaps the new GUI will make that redundant. At least I'm hoping it will better display logistic inventory.

[ssilk]

To bring the rest of the game in line with it, would it make sense for the logistic network to behave the same? If you have a requester chest asking for 100 items and there are only 30 in the network, should the network not show -70 items? This would allow for very powerful and efficient logistic base design.

My opinion: Yes. But I need to play with it, to see, if it is really true.

[Engimage]

To add to it I might offer to display a "delivery queue" like hand production queue that we see that will display current goods requested from the logistic network by both automated and manual requests.

Yesterday, I noticed how useful such a queue might be. I had ordered 50 copper ore from the network and a few bots came along and delivered 38. This made me wonder, is this all that was available in the network? Or will some other bots come and deliver the remaining 12? Currently, there is no way to answer this question, other than waiting. A delivery queue could definitely help here. Maybe show the items that are not available and cannot be delivered in red? For example:

logistics-queue.png

This is what I meant when talking about queue. It should display in green items that are currently delivered by bots, yellow for items that are ordered but there are not enough bots for them but they are available in the network, and red for items that are requested by player but they are not available. This will be the ideal tool imo

And displaying current logistic network contents in the build window is also a great thing to have as items are listed in a familiar way as opposed to a mixed list it currently offers. Personally I see no use in listing logistic network contents on mouse over, only the number of bots

[bk5115545]

Oh here's an idea.
The build queue is on the left correct? so put the one-time-request queue on the right between the armor/weapons and the toolbelt.

This makes a very explicit visual separation and should prevent one queue's resizing from affecting the other's position (the same problem as the left-gui being part of the top-gui in a recent patch).