Train is too vulnerable versus green alien(Big problem!)

[Hagaret]

My experience is 150 hours, and, of course, aliens become big problem in searching of resources. To be precise, I mean green alien with 5000hp, even train with 2 locomotives can't kill this elephant. They spawn their bases on my railway very often in unexpected places. I was try to destroy them and others nearest bases, but they will return. This problem need too many attention from player to keep train in safe, It is very annoying. The creation of giant wall is very irrationally for such game. Please, increase damage caused by the train to the level of one lethal strike. I hope developers will hear me.

[mooklepticon]

Do you mean the behemoth?

[Hagaret]

Do you mean the behemoth?

Yes, Behemoth Biter

[bobingabout]

Building the wall itself isn't such a huge problem, simply get in a train, move slowly, and hold the button down as you drive.

A better solution is a blueprint to build laser turrets along the wall.


An even better solution... use a mod that adds equipment grids to vehicles in 0.14, then your trains can defend themselves!

[Hagaret]

Building the wall itself isn't such a huge problem, simply get in a train, move slowly, and hold the button down as you drive.

A better solution is a blueprint to build laser turrets along the wall.


An even better solution... use a mod that adds equipment grids to vehicles in 0.14, then your trains can defend themselves!

I know, giant wall is obviously solution, but I can't even find so many rocks to build this "Great Wall of China". It is crazy! And no one can't guarantee that they will never spawn on railways. Need thousands of turrets and hundreds of drons. I don't want to use mods in such situation, cuz it is obviously problem of original game. Dvelopers need fix this problem in balance, seriously. Change few numbers in the code of game or spend 50-100 hours to build this "Great Wall of China". It is looks like mockery.

[dragontamer5788]

I built my great wall in just 4 hours, including killing off all of the aliens within. It really isn't that bad. (The vast majority of that time was killing aliens). Shotgun + Flamethrower basically erradicates everything, 2 shields for HP and 6 exoskeletons outrun everything. I don't even use destroyer capsules (although it might be a lot faster if I started using those...)

Something you should do outside of the great wall, is build laser turret "outposts" to regularly to Aggro the biters.

can't even find so many rocks to build this "Great Wall of China".

I see at least 20 mines in your picture, all around your train route. To build a 3000x3000 wall (enclosing 9 million tiles), you only need 12,000 walls, which is 60,000 bricks, which is 120,000 ore. No more than three stone mines or so for all of the stone you need.

If you build the wall strategically using natural barriers (ex: use those big lakes as part of your wall), you can accomplish the task with far fewer walls. My 120,000 ore estimate is an absolute worst case scenario.

And no one can't guarantee that they will never spawn on railways.

Sure you can. Spawners are created only when biters create a spawning block. Kill the biters before the settle, and there will never be a spawner. The solution is simple: build a wall. If you don't want to build a wall... well.... I dunno what to say. Biters don't teleport in this game. A wall will keep you safe.

And it really doesn't take much time to build. Create blueprints with a roboport and have robots build the wall for you. I spend far more time "in combat" than actually building walls. Heck, you can stay on the train and plop-down blueprints if you like. Leave construction jobs to robots.

[Hagaret]

Ah, thanks for count, but seriously, it is very very dubious pleasure, all game based on rationality and automation of everything. And I have evident question to developers:"How increasing of damage caused by the train can broke balance of the game?" It is not single problem of the game for now, but this problem can be fixed very easy.

[dragontamer5788]

Ah, thanks for count, but seriously, it is very very dubious pleasure, all game based on rationality and automation of everything. And I have evident question to developers:"How increasing of damage caused by the train can broke balance of the game?" It is not single problem of the game for now, but this problem can be fixed very easy.

The point of the game is so that players can have the tools needed to fix any problems.

Players have the ability to automatically build walls using automatic construction bots. Players have the ability to automatically repair trains using construction bots. Players have the ability to automatically load guns using logistic bots. There are plenty of tools in this game that can solve your problem already.

In any case, building out the wall using blueprints and construction bots really won't take very long. You're at a super-late stage of the game with 140 hours allegedly, you surely have access to construction bots by now, right? Build it out while riding on a train. Don't even get off the train as you place the blueprints. Blueprint your wall design, with lasers (or guns if you prefer) defending it

[Hagaret]

Ah, thanks for count, but seriously, it is very very dubious pleasure, all game based on rationality and automation of everything. And I have evident question to developers:"How increasing of damage caused by the train can broke balance of the game?" It is not single problem of the game for now, but this problem can be fixed very easy.

The point of the game is so that players can have the tools needed to fix any problems.

Players have the ability to automatically build walls using automatic construction bots. Players have the ability to automatically repair trains using construction bots. Players have the ability to automatically load guns using logistic bots. There are plenty of tools in this game that can solve your problem already.

In any case, building out the wall using blueprints and construction bots really won't take very long. You're at a super-late stage of the game with 140 hours allegedly, you surely have access to construction bots by now, right? Build it out while riding on a train. Don't even get off the train as you place the blueprints. Blueprint your wall design, with lasers (or guns if you prefer) defending it

Okay, your point of view clear. Each entertains itself in this game. I love this game. If you can just build giant wall with turrets - I'm happy for you. But this little aspect broke MY pleasure from game. Developers don't ask us what we want, thats why I raise this important question for me and for OTHER PLAYERS. I can't enjoy anymore becouse of this. Wall is not solution!

[British_Petroleum]

Behemoth's only appear once you hit 100% evolution right? I've always gotten bored of my games before i get to 100% so i've never seen them. If you make a wall blueprint you can cover some huge areas really quickly. Would you even need walls? I haven't used walls my last few games, just walls of turrets I play with iron on high as well because it got tedious having to keep building new railways whenever an iron patch ran out

[Martc]

I agree this is very frustrating problem. On my map I was replacing destroyed loco every 10-30 minutes. Worst thing is that train with destroyed loco is not visible in train list, so if you miss the alert, you must first find out that some train is missing and then find where the rest of the train is standing. Atleast schedule is remained so you just need to place new loco.

So I think train should be able to run over Behemoth with no problem, because this way outpost "in the wild" is simply not posible. Walls around the track is too time and resource consuming. And mods are no answer, because vanilla game needs to be balanced and playable withoud mods.

[bobingabout]

...using automatic construction bots....using construction bots....using logistic bots. There are plenty of tools in this game that can solve your problem already.

...using blueprints and construction bots...

Sounds like you only really have 1 tool, Construction bots! well, Bots... you did say Logistic once.

[dragontamer5788]

...using automatic construction bots....using construction bots....using logistic bots. There are plenty of tools in this game that can solve your problem already.

...using blueprints and construction bots...

Sounds like you only really have 1 tool, Construction bots! well, Bots... you did say Logistic once.

Nah, it also takes Roboports and trains!

But yeah, bots are very powerful in this game.

[Adil]

It seems to me that you have generation setting not coherent to the style of your play.
There's sprawling rail network for transportation resources from far away, yet the map is pestered with ignored ore patches. Same goes for the natives. Probably you should have used more scarce generation settings.
As a reference, I have this longplay with rso from 0.12 version.

Screenshot

Screenshot-Factorio 0.12.33.png (245.01 KiB) Viewed 9704 times

Resources are a bit overabundant as well, but aliens concentration is just about right.

So it's more of generation tweaking problem, as it seems to me.

[Ntek]

I having about the same problem.

I play my games in Marathon mode. That means that everything is extremely expensive and it takes lot of resources to evolve the factory.

The pictures is showing my current game.

One main base
15 self sustained Exp with automated replacement of spare-towers, ammo and stuff.

The BIGGEST problem now is how the bug is spawned.

If you clean out an area. The bug will replace the area with new bugs almost immediately and they tend to spawn over the rail or very close into it. I have tried to counter that with lot of laser tower because of that it was almost impossible to use train else in a large factory. But the bugs will soon destroy the tower without that they are being repaired or replaced.

One attack wave from the bug is strong enough to take out a couple of towers and damage some more. OR they spawn just out of range of the tower but close enough to think that I'm in their base so they create a never ending line of bugs that attacking the structures.

[Blaster]

That's like Starship Troopers level of bugs there

[hitzu]

I having about the same problem.

I play my games in Marathon mode. That means that everything is extremely expensive and it takes lot of resources to evolve the factory.

The pictures is showing my current game.

One main base
15 self sustained Exp with automated replacement of spare-towers, ammo and stuff.

The BIGGEST problem now is how the bug is spawned.

If you clean out an area. The bug will replace the area with new bugs almost immediately and they tend to spawn over the rail or very close into it. I have tried to counter that with lot of laser tower because of that it was almost impossible to use train else in a large factory. But the bugs will soon destroy the tower without that they are being repaired or replaced.

One attack wave from the bug is strong enough to take out a couple of towers and damage some more. OR they spawn just out of range of the tower but close enough to think that I'm in their base so they create a never ending line of bugs that attacking the structures.

I find Robot Army mod great for clearing the area around the base in an automatic mode. It also brings the constant endless resource sink giving the base the life like feeling when everything works and moves constantly with no rest.

[Deadly-Bagel]

Hmm, maybe if a train collides with a non-fixed entity (player, biter, vehicle, etc) it should do damage as normal but if neither is destroyed it moves that entity to the side of the track, train only suffers minor loss of speed. IRL when a train hits something, it doesn't come to a sudden halt.

That way if it hits a few biters it'll only drop to something like 50% speed, it'll get attacked a few times but that's reasons to ensure it is automatically repaired, and maybe later you have shields on all your trains (assuming they add vanilla equipment grids to vehicles). You'll have problems if there's a huge force congregating on your rails but I would put that down to rail maintenance as it would only happen if a huge nest was near or on the rail which you shouldn't let happen.

[Sephrat]

On my map I was replacing destroyed loco every 10-30 minutes. Worst thing is that train with destroyed loco is not visible in train list, so if you miss the alert, you must first find out that some train is missing and then find where the rest of the train is standing.

I had exactly the same problem last night, it almost made me ragequit. I don't want to spend half my time replacing locos / cleaning out alien bases / walling up railways.
I know it wouldn't make sense that aliens shouldn't attack railways nor trains, but there currently is no fun way to automate the manual activity it involves. Even building a second Great Wall of China (which isn't fun IMO) would be such a pain in regards to supplying roboports.

Let's hope equipment grids on trains will come to vanilla before final release and help the player address this matter.

[Hannu]

I am interested in this topic too, because I have considered to make separate factories in my next game. It would need so long tracks (tens of kilometers) and also limits production to somewhat low values (because train throughput limitations). It is very impractical to defense all the tracks with walls and turrets or enclose the whole area. If enemies make their nests on tracks and behemoths can stop and destroy trains, I am forced to choose the peaceful game. However, I would like to get the extra challenge from defending my factories.

But maybe there are personal solution to this problem. You can find properties of the locomotive in the file "data/base/prototypes/entity/entities.lua". It is easy to change impact damage caused to locomotive to zero or negligible. But what value increases impact of the locomotive to be lethal for behemoth biters? Is it "energy_per_hit_point" and what does it exactly means?