[MOD 0.14] Nucular 1.0.4 - Nuclear Reactors and Weapons

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Simdezimon
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Re: [MOD 0.13] Nucular 1.0.2 - Nuclear Reactors and Weapons

Post by Simdezimon »

I have released version 1.0.3.
It adds nuclear fuel to the reactor recipe and changes the steam boiler.
aTeLe wrote:Where can I download the old 0.12 versions of this mod?

and please stop using exclusively mods.factorio - its awful and not everyone wants to create an additional account just to download mods.
Didn't know that you need an account to download mods. I add the files.
Optera wrote:The added plumbing makes them a lot less space efficient too.
With long inserters it works fairly well :D.
Optera wrote:Is it intended for the steam turbines to work just as well with hot fluids as they do with steam, or is that a limitation of using the steam engine prototype?
It is a limitation of the prototype. I have buffed the steam boiler to 1MW in the new version.
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Optera
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Re: [MOD 0.13] Nucular 1.0.2 - Nuclear Reactors and Weapons

Post by Optera »

Simdezimon wrote:
Optera wrote:The added plumbing makes them a lot less space efficient too.
With long inserters it works fairly well :D.
Long handed inserters waste space on the belt side.
Simdezimon wrote:
Optera wrote:Is it intended for the steam turbines to work just as well with hot fluids as they do with steam, or is that a limitation of using the steam engine prototype?
It is a limitation of the prototype. I have buffed the steam boiler to 1MW in the new version.
Do you mean it'll generate 2x the steam or burn through fuel 2x as fast?
Nvm, I was kinda derping out. It produces 2x as fast meaning it burns through fuel 2x as fast.
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Re: [MOD 0.13] Nucular 1.0.3 - Nuclear Reactors and Weapons

Post by TheTom »

Just how rare is uranium?

Added the mod to my game using Bob and RSO.

Added around 500 chunks map on one edge of my explored map - and no uranium to be found (using the map label mod).
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Re: [MOD 0.13] Nucular 1.0.3 - Nuclear Reactors and Weapons

Post by siggboy »

I have a game with RSO, and Uranium is more common than Stone on my map (with a fairly large area explored by now, several thousand tiles in each direction.

Given how little Uranium you actually need with a breeder setup, it's still far too much as far as I'm concerned.

Bob's Mods adds a lot of different ores, though, maybe that's the reason that Uranium gets proportionally more rare.

One single patch with 100,000 Uranium (very small) will last you for over 8,000 Megawatthours (with a full reprocessing/breeding cycle in place). So you have plenty of time to discover more on your map :).
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Re: [MOD 0.13] Nucular 1.0.3 - Nuclear Reactors and Weapons

Post by Optera »

I used the injector from mining tools to create one batch uranium and didn't even need anywhere as much as that.
With breeders you recycle uranium and burn iron.
Now my iron consumption is more than twice of copper.
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Re: [MOD 0.13] Nucular 1.0.3 - Nuclear Reactors and Weapons

Post by siggboy »

Optera wrote:Now my iron consumption is more than twice of copper.
How many GW does your nuclear plant output??

With 1k iron/minute for the fuel rods you can already produce more than 1.2 GW.
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Re: [MOD 0.13] Nucular 1.0.3 - Nuclear Reactors and Weapons

Post by AlphaLima »

TheTom wrote:Just how rare is uranium?

Added the mod to my game using Bob and RSO.

Added around 500 chunks map on one edge of my explored map - and no uranium to be found (using the map label mod).
Same here. I even made a new map and RSO added a spot right next to me as it should but cheating in a jet and flying around for over 10 minutes and i havent found a single other block of uranium. Makes me wonder more if its just broken.

edit: nevermind, found the console command to generate the map and 5000 blocks in every direction i finally found 2 patches. Its just exceedingly rare.
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Re: [MOD 0.13] Nucular 1.0.3 - Nuclear Reactors and Weapons

Post by Optera »

siggboy wrote:
Optera wrote:Now my iron consumption is more than twice of copper.
How many GW does your nuclear plant output??

With 1k iron/minute for the fuel rods you can already produce more than 1.2 GW.
With my only consumption coming from building rockets, iron had ~1.5x of copper. Reprocessing pushed it over 2x. The map looks odd with many big coal and copper patches but nearly no iron left. ;)
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Re: [MOD 0.13] Nucular 1.0.3 - Nuclear Reactors and Weapons

Post by daemonazazel »

Hi,

thanx for this great mod. It's exactly what I have been looking for in advanced power production. :-)

One question though and sorry if this has already been written somewhere but I skimmed all 7 pages of this thread and didn't find it:

Is it intentional that steam boilers can't be set in row? I guess it is, cause they turn water into steam instead of just heating it. But is it?

Another thing: Could you somehow integrate with the AmmoBox mod to allow for boxes of uranium ammunition?

Tnx & Greetings

Azazel
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Re: [MOD 0.13] Nucular 1.0.3 - Nuclear Reactors and Weapons

Post by TheTom »

Finally a Uranium Patch ;) It is quite far away, but at the same time close to 2 groups of total 15 oil wells... close enough that a small second base is not too much work. Finally. I wondered if I would ever play with uranium ;)
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Re: [MOD 0.13] Nucular 1.0.3 - Nuclear Reactors and Weapons

Post by orzelek »

I'm getting an impression that uranium is to rare in RSO configs.. :D
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Re: [MOD 0.13] Nucular 1.0.3 - Nuclear Reactors and Weapons

Post by siggboy »

orzelek wrote:I'm getting an impression that uranium is to rare in RSO configs.. :D
It's not too rare!

In my current game I've set the frequency to "Low", and I have about 7 patches in a 1000 tile radius around my starting area. It's already way, WAY more than I'll ever need on this map. (This is an RSO game, of course, I'm not even sure if the frequency settings apply.)

I've also generated a few other test maps, and there alwas was Uranium reasonably close to the start.

Just a small, single, patch already lasts virtually forever, so please do not change the balance in RSO. It's fine as it is.
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Re: [MOD 0.13] Nucular 1.0.3 - Nuclear Reactors and Weapons

Post by TheTom »

I agree. Now that I have a small plant running with 32 reactors I am astonished by the fact that "it just works" and delivers a great power density.

I have one smallish patch quite far away (existing game, so I had to research new areas) and that will likely last my whole game. It is efficient if you use Uranium in bare form (enrich, make fuel). But once you get breeder reactors working and use recycled MOX fuels - the consumption is LOW.

If you have an existing map, though, expect to star searching. Generally start searching. Which is fine with me. Once found and set up, "it just works".
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Re: [MOD 0.13] Nucular 1.0.3 - Nuclear Reactors and Weapons

Post by BlakeMW »

siggboy wrote:
orzelek wrote:I'm getting an impression that uranium is to rare in RSO configs.. :D
It's not too rare!

In my current game I've set the frequency to "Low", and I have about 7 patches in a 1000 tile radius around my starting area. It's already way, WAY more than I'll ever need on this map. (This is an RSO game, of course, I'm not even sure if the frequency settings apply.)
Yes, my feeling is it's no more rare than say, quartz (in fact I just checked the configs and the allotment is the same, I'm not sure how the multi_resource factors in). When you have say 18 different ores, by sheer chance a few of them will be hard to find. For example in my last few games I've found galena really hard to find, but it's probably just sheer chance because the config for galena isn't much different to any other configs.
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Re: [MOD 0.13] Nucular 1.0.3 - Nuclear Reactors and Weapons

Post by siggboy »

TheTom wrote:the consumption is LOW.
If you install a full breeding cycle, that pairs each fission reactor with one breeder reactor, then you need 2 Uranium per minute per fission reactor, if it's under full load (2x U per 10 MW produced, per minute).

So it's 1 Uranium per 5 MW-minutes (300 MJ per Uranium if you do not count the iron ore).

Even just the patch that you're guaranteed to get in your starting area will probably run most bases indefinitely.

I've just checked the starting patch in my current game, and it contained about 100,000 Uranium, enough to produce 1 GW for 8 hours, and that's a sustained 1 GW and it's just the starting patch of ore! With that much energy you can launch 1 rocket per minute, so you'll have launched 400+ rockets before you even need to look at another Uranium patch.
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Re: [MOD 0.13] Nucular 1.0.3 - Nuclear Reactors and Weapons

Post by TheTom »

So I need one breeder per reactor? Damn ;) I had that so far, but because it looks nice - when I put up the reactor to full size that is going to be a little inconvenient with my current layout. Time to replan.
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Re: [MOD 0.13] Nucular 1.0.3 - Nuclear Reactors and Weapons

Post by siggboy »

TheTom wrote:So I need one breeder per reactor? Damn ;) I had that so far, but because it looks nice - when I put up the reactor to full size that is going to be a little inconvenient with my current layout. Time to replan.
Well, you don't need one breeder per fission reactor, but if you want the lowest Uranium consumption per MW then that is the correct approach (simdezimon has tuned the ratios in a way that this works out best).

I've published my reactor build a few posts earlier, maybe you want to have a look. There I also list the correct ratios for a complete reprocessing/breeding cycle.
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Re: Design for 250 MW with correct ratios and breeders

Post by iceman_1212 »

siggboy wrote:Here's a design for an end-game factory that will produce 250 MW and require 1 raw resource per MW-minute (plus some trace amounts of sulfur). Uses no robots!

Water comes from the top, each pipe requires 2 offshore pumps. The leftmost pipe requires 3 offshore pumps (it feeds 4 reactors instead of 3). The pipe lengths are limited, especially for the leftmost one, since we're already close to the liquid throughput limit.
nucular-250mw.png
The raw resource cost of the setup can be reduced by using no modules, but then the design becomes a little more clumsy. So I opted with putting a few modules in to make it a little more compact. Be aware that if you put SM3 into the machines you'll pay a huge upfront cost that will not do much for you other than making the row of assemblers a little shorter.

The net energy production is around 240 MW. Resource intake (per 10 MW produced) is ~2 uranium per minute, ~8 iron plates per minute and some sulfur (the actual numbers are slightly higher than this). The entire module draws around 55 uranium/minute and 200 plates/minute at maximum capacity; that's a little under 60 MJ per raw resource -- almost free energy :).

The inner belt will slowly fill with Nuclear Fuel rods, even at maximum load, because the chemical plant produces slightly more Uranium than needed, and there's an excess of 1 Plutonium every 6 minute for every Breeder reactor (25 Pu per 6 minutes for the entire setup). This is good because you can skim off the extras to make more reactors (the excess Plutonium is converted into fuel, since there's one extra MOX assembler).

The exact ratios for 25 pairs of fission/breeder reactors are (machines are Assembler 3, and a Chemical Plant for Uranium extraction):

1 machine for Nuclear Fuel
~5.33 machines for Reprocessing
4 machines for Uranium Enrichment
15 machines for MOX Fuel
~1.67 machines for Uranium

That will then yield 25 extra Plutonium every 6 minutes. I've put in one extra assembler for MOX fuel to convert that into Nuclear Fuel. The other option would be to let it accumulate and turn it into nuclear warheads, but you might get into trouble with the authorities for that.

Bootstrapping the setup takes a few minutes, if you need full output immediately you should prime the inner belt with about 150 Nuclear Fuel elements to kickstart production.

I've put in no death spiral protection, I consider that overengineering since the resource intake is low enough that it should be easy enough to control. Of course, nuclear plants cannot be taken out of a blackout without external energy, so at least be aware of that.
Blueprint
Nice setup, I will be stealing some parts for sure :D. Agreed re: the 1:1 relationship between fission and breeder. Though when I tested full load using binbinhfr's Electric Void mod, I found that one fission reactor could only support one turbine. With two turbines per reactor at full load, the turbines will run out of steam momentarily (and power production will drop to zero) before the next cycle of steam comes in from the reactor. Based on this, I've been doing 1 fission reactor : 1 steam turbine. Is this incorrect?
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Re: Design for 250 MW with correct ratios and breeders

Post by siggboy »

iceman_1212 wrote:Nice setup, I will be stealing some parts for sure :D.
Yes, but you should make a little change. The requester that feeds from the uranium plant on the belt should get a limiter, so that it will only replace the Uranium that goes missing in the reprocessing chain.

For every 4 depleted fuel rods that get removed from the inner belt, you need to put 1 Uranium on the outer belt. That way you won't flood the outer belt with Uranium, which is bad because it will prevent the reprocessors from doing their thing, and then the inner belt will completely fill with depleted fuel rods and you have a death spiral (because reactors will stop due to not being able to dump the empty fuel rods any longer). Only happens under full or close to full load, however.

Can be done with two combinators for the counting and subtracting.

In that setup the belt needs to be primed with fuel rods or the condition on the inserter needs to be changed so it will prime the outer belt with uranium -- in order to bootstrap the thing.

I've made an improved blueprint for the reactor module that includes this change:
Blueprint
Agreed re: the 1:1 relationship between fission and breeder. Though when I tested full load using binbinhfr's Electric Void mod, I found that one fission reactor could only support one turbine.
Use the Passive Energy Void from "Creative Mode" (HIGHLY recommended mod, by the way). That will only take the excess energy from the network, and leave everything else fully supplied.

This is how I have tested my reactor setups. (binbin's energy void is probably functionally identical, but you don't need a separate mod if you use Creative Mode, which provides this sort of thing and much more awesome stuff.)
With two turbines per reactor at full load, the turbines will run out of steam momentarily (and power production will drop to zero) before the next cycle of steam comes in from the reactor.
Yes, this happens under full load, but on average the reactor array will supply the full 10 MW per fission reactor. There will be some oscillation around the 250 MW mark.

One fission reactor can supply 2 steam turbines just fine. I also add a storage tank and a third turbine, that way you have plenty of coverage for short term spikes over the maximum capacity.
Last edited by siggboy on Thu Aug 25, 2016 8:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: [MOD 0.13] Nucular 1.0.3 - Nuclear Reactors and Weapons

Post by BlakeMW »

iceman_1212 wrote:With two turbines per reactor at full load, the turbines will run out of steam momentarily (and power production will drop to zero) before the next cycle of steam comes in from the reactor. Based on this, I've been doing 1 fission reactor : 1 steam turbine. Is this incorrect?
Some maths:

The reactor produces 400 Steam in 10 seconds.

Each steam has an energy value of 250kJ

A reactor outputs:
400 * 250kJ / 10 = 10000kW

A steam turbine produces up to 90kW * 60 = 5400kW (*)

So the proper ratio of reactors to steam turbines is 5400kW:10000kW = 27:50
A ratio of 1:2 is only very slightly underpowered, so it would be advisable to use a 1:2 ratio with a storage tank to level out the flow.

* For some reason the maximum steam engine output is 90kW * Max Fluid Per Second.
This maximum output is achieved if there is a temperature difference of at least 90C between the fluid temperature and the minimum fluid temperature. If there is a difference of greater than 90C then fluid consumption rate is reduced proportionately so that energy is not lost. I have no idea why 90C is the magic number - in vanilla the maximum temperature difference is 85C. Maybe this is a bug.

The Steam Engine consumes 6 fluid/s and the Steam Turbine consumes 60 fluid/s, giving them yields on steam of 540kW and 5.4MW respectively.
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