Thoughts on 0.13 Terrain Generation

[torham]

have been doing some experiments with world gen.

This is LOW segmentation, all standard, game seed 5999.


This is HIGH segmentation, again game seed 5999


The land is actually less fragmented with the very high fragmentation option... something is not right here.

[Yehn]

Is this being fixed..?

[Kelderek]

@torham, @SQLek:

The images you guys are showing are really just the starting area and a small amount around it. I'm not sure that is a fair representation of what the world generator is giving you for segmentation unless you are able to see a much larger region.

[ssilk]

My thoughts after walking over this: The player needs the trust/believe, that the generator is really working.
How can they trust it, if everything they see is just a tiny, tiny bit of land around them?
It's stupid to compare it, but the biggest maps of other games I know can be compared with about 1/50 of Factorio maps.

If you don't find a good place, you cannot be sure, that it doesn't exist!

Indeed you can be very sure, that in each map such a place exists, but it is not the starting place.

In this sense: there is no problem with the map generator in general, but with the transparency/reliability of the map generator...

[Qon]

My thoughts after walking over this: The player needs the trust/believe, that the generator is really working.
How can they trust it, if everything they see is just a tiny, tiny bit of land around them?
It's stupid to compare it, but the biggest maps of other games I know can be compared with about 1/50 of Factorio maps.

If you don't find a good place, you cannot be sure, that it doesn't exist!

Indeed you can be very sure, that in each map such a place exists, but it is not the starting place.

In this sense: there is no problem with the map generator in general, but with the transparency/reliability of the map generator...

People have shown big revealed maps also here. And if you have natives around your starting area then that is the only place you can set up shop. And no you can't be sure that the perfect place exists anywhere on the map, even if it would be infinite. You can definitly have an infinitly bad map. The map generator uses the same flawed algorithm and settings everywhere.

[MrGrim]

Not to discount complaints about resource spawning, but I do want to re-iterate that my intention opening this thread was to demonstrate the problems with the visual quality of the generated maps. Specifically, that terrain segmentation seems to always be very high.

[Align]

In this sense: there is no problem with the map generator in general, but with the transparency/reliability of the map generator...

If the starting area has problems, the map generator has problems.

[Kewlhotrod]

My thoughts after walking over this: The player needs the trust/believe, that the generator is really working.
How can they trust it, if everything they see is just a tiny, tiny bit of land around them?
It's stupid to compare it, but the biggest maps of other games I know can be compared with about 1/50 of Factorio maps.

If you don't find a good place, you cannot be sure, that it doesn't exist!

Indeed you can be very sure, that in each map such a place exists, but it is not the starting place.

In this sense: there is no problem with the map generator in general, but with the transparency/reliability of the map generator...

I don't know how you can say this when the hole thread is about how dissatisfied they are on the generator rather if it works or not.

[ssilk]

I'm sorry. I think that was a stupid post yesterday after 3 beer. If I could I would delete it.

[nuhll]

I just get dumb maps

- low starting resources

OR

- NO OIL???

OR

- useless, dumb water everywhere

or all together... if i set starting area none its like it was before patch, but ofc, you have 90218378912978318293789017891789398123 biters direct in your face.

[Neotix]

Yes, in v.0.13 map generation was changed and right now it's not working as it should. Devs know about it and will improve it but now then fixing the crucial bugs. Install RSO mod to change generation method.

[Koub]

[Koub] Merged into general topic about 0.13 map gen.

[Xeteth]

Would any of the devs be able to post an update on how things are going with this? I have chosen to wait until it is fixed to start my new megabase and don't want to risk running into issues with the terrain generation. No rush, I understand there are probably more pressing bugs to be squished at the moment and you have already done an amazing job of patching since the 0.13 release

[Align]

Install RSO mod to change generation method.

RSO doesn't touch terrain generation, only resources

[nuhll]

Any fix for it if we want to start from scratch?

[Joefesok]

Any fix for it if we want to start from scratch?

I'd suggest you start a new map in .12, give yourself god mode, then wander around for a very large area.

[VDOgamez]

One thing which I'm particularly frustrated with is that terrain segmentation now affects water differently. In 0.12 and earlier, when you set terrain segmentation to very high, and water to very high, it would create a sort of archipelago map, with lots of little islands everywhere, which was something I really enjoyed. Now, no matter what you set terrain segmentation to, the bodies of water tend to be more or less the same size, and I haven't found any combination of map settings that is good for creating islands.

[TheTom]

I think it is not so much that it changed algo wise as it seems there is a simple error that some of the parameters either are not handled in the UI or otherwise get bothered. I.e. a simple programming bug which makes sure that the actual code doing map generation never sees the parameters.

At least that would explain why some of the settings seem to change nothing. And I have a problem assuming that was totally untested.

[Align]

Seems like it should be fixed in the next release!

I've made some tweaks to our map generator, a bug or two related to map segmentation and completely replaced how starting areas are generated. Let's see if it will make you happy Moving to fixed for next version.

viewtopic.php?f=30&t=27521&start=20#p185959

[Furan]

Ok, let's rewind:
1) Why is there no map in the map editor?
2) What good are the options for zero size of ore patches? Custom map pre-generation? Ok.
3) But most importantly, why is there no longer the "no safe area" option?

(Shipwrecking) on the only one clear patch of land with all the resources within arms length? How lucky is that?

This is what was so awesome about this game! The staggering contrast between the pour soul castaway fighting to survive, trying to conceal the fragile seeds of intelligence and technology - and the planet dominating terraformer he'll become at the end!

Please, add the "Tiny/Run, Forrest, run" safe area (with a little bit of iron). Thank you.