Engine unit

[slpwnd]

The new intermediate product for engine unit depends on the lubricant. This essentially makes the car and trains depend on the oil industry. This is questionable, because both the car and train are useful quite early in the game so for the 0.9.2 the engine unit will be made in regular assembling machine and use no lubricant. Instead more lubricant will be used for the electric engine unit (and eventually for the express transport belt things). Comments?

[BurnHard]

What about early and easy "Coal liquefaction" and use that resulting oil directly as early, low tech lubricant (or use just normal crude oil, you would just need one pumpjack)?

Or even better: pulverize the coal to graphite (yes not 100% correct ) use that as low tech lubricant for engine and maybe even fast (red) belt or other things. It adds one more use to coal and everything is manageable by inserters and assemblers.

[BurnHard]

Would be interested in some feedback on the graphite-lubricant thing from coal

[immibis]

I think this makes sense.

[Coolthulhu]

How about having 2-3 recipes for engine? Limitation of having only 1 recipe per product made sense when you could handcraft them, now it's rather arbitrary.
Also, now engines exist, advanced belts could use those. Lubricant hasn't got many sinks - pretty much only logistic bots.

[AlexPhoenix]

then may be do like in Terraria, the item groups?
for example is group wood, which contains raw-wood, dark-wood, etc.
for some recipes you need specific wood type, other recipes just need any wood(any item from group)

so this will be usefull for lubricant.

[ssilk]

How about making lubricant also directly from trees? Place special inserter (also useful for fishing) and he pics up anything useful.
Otherwise: yes, this sounds like a logic change, Thomas. And the afford is not too high.

[Coolthulhu]

How about making lubricant also directly from trees? Place special inserter (also useful for fishing) and he pics up anything useful.

Directly from trees? Sounds rather unorthodox and clunky. I understand the rationale, but currently trees are rather different from buildings (not bound to grid, for example) and inserters move solid materials, not fluids.
I like fishing inserter, though it would probably not be worth the effort. It would be one hell of a TECHNOLOGY moment for anyone witnessing an inserter pull out live fish out of water.

[ray4ever]

I think from a gameplay perspective this change is making a lot of sense.
Actually every change that encourages the use of trains is a good change i think personally, as I still hope that someday you will have factories scattered around the map that are connected by your railways (a little bit like transport tycoon, but only that you have built the factories yourself)

[dusho]

Whole Factorio is about starting small, getting bigger. What about having different tiers when it comes to cars and trains. As well as engines.
tier 1:
compact steam engine - requires lots of iron, gears and steel to build - any fuel to power (wood, coal, solid fuel)
- required to build:
-> steam car
-> steam locomotive
(slow, not so fuel efficient)
tier 2:
combustion engine - requires lubricant, steel, copper - solid fuel (better barreled liquid, though)
- required to build:
-> diesel car
-> diesel locomotive
(medium fast, more fuel efficient)
tier 3:
electric engine - requires combustion engine, some circuits, batteries, steel - solid fuel (better barreled liquid, though)
- required to build:
-> electric car
-> electric locomotive
(fast, even more fuel efficient)

May then also split the current 'steam engine' and just have it as partial element for electricity generation. Maybe it would blend nicely with other power alternatives. Have machine called Dynamo that can be connected to (just placed next to) steam engine ( in the future wind turbine, ... ). So one part will provide kinetic energy and dynamo transforms it to electric energy. Choice for the kinetic energy provider will then depend on player and his starting location and availability of resources.
Sorry if it was already discussed somewhere else..

[ssilk]

This idea is cool!
What also works without oil and water (= steam) is a http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stirlingmotor

[EstebanLB]

Whole Factorio is about starting small, getting bigger. What about having different tiers when it comes to cars and trains. As well as engines.
tier 1:
compact steam engine - requires lots of iron, gears and steel to build - any fuel to power (wood, coal, solid fuel)
- required to build:
-> steam car
-> steam locomotive
(slow, not so fuel efficient)
tier 2:
combustion engine - requires lubricant, steel, copper - solid fuel (better barreled liquid, though)
- required to build:
-> diesel car
-> diesel locomotive
(medium fast, more fuel efficient)
tier 3:
electric engine - requires combustion engine, some circuits, batteries, steel - solid fuel (better barreled liquid, though)
- required to build:
-> electric car
-> electric locomotive
(fast, even more fuel efficient)

May then also split the current 'steam engine' and just have it as partial element for electricity generation. Maybe it would blend nicely with other power alternatives. Have machine called Dynamo that can be connected to (just placed next to) steam engine ( in the future wind turbine, ... ). So one part will provide kinetic energy and dynamo transforms it to electric energy. Choice for the kinetic energy provider will then depend on player and his starting location and availability of resources.
Sorry if it was already discussed somewhere else..

I love this idea as well, it fits excellent with the Factories game play.
Having different tiers of engines and separating mechanical energy from electrical energy generation

[Sir Nick]

From my point of view, that should be somewhat shifted:

No need for seperate cars for each tier. One car is enough. (Assuming car = wagon)

Steam locomotive as suggested is fine. One addition that may be required here is a tender with an inserter that has a larger inventory than a train and thus is able to supply it.

Combustion aka diesel locomotive. If possible, this should run on liquid fuel that has to be piped in (or unloaded from barrels). IDK which fraction of oil makes diesel, but it's either light or heavy - thus giving them a new use.

Electrical locomotives. Should require a special type of rail (electrified track), however, would not require refueling (and is useless away from electrified track). Should, however, have a much better fuel efficiency than a diesel locomotive. Maybe instead of fuel it'd have a charge, like logobots do now, then there is just a need for recharge stations at stops.

[Zourin]

I think by cars, he means actual cars with trunks and four wheels, not train wagons.

I'd be happy with tiered vehicles, personally. Seeing trains evolve from steam trains (may as well require a steam engine) to solid fuel (diesel) to electric would be great, since they generally don't consume that much fuel anyway, and electrics can 'recharge' at any train stop.

Electric cars may not be so viable, given that there's a tendancy to leave them parked wherever, and not necessarily someplace where they'd be recieving electric charge.

[immibis]

Electric cars may not be so viable, given that there's a tendancy to leave them parked wherever, and not necessarily someplace where they'd be recieving electric charge.

They'd be okay if you scatter some substations around the outside of your base.

[Zourin]

Electric cars may not be so viable, given that there's a tendancy to leave them parked wherever, and not necessarily someplace where they'd be recieving electric charge.

They'd be okay if you scatter some substations around the outside of your base.

Either way, unless they come with tree-mowers on the front grill, I'm staying away from giving two shitz about cars with this version. if i'm not hitting trees, power lines, or trees, then i'm hitting walls, trees, inserters, trees, pipes that aren't quite underground, trees, power lines, more trees, and getting hit by trains while trying to stay away from the trees.

[Calico]

The new intermediate product for engine unit depends on the lubricant. This essentially makes the car and trains depend on the oil industry. This is questionable, because both the car and train are useful quite early in the game so for the 0.9.2 the engine unit will be made in regular assembling machine and use no lubricant. Instead more lubricant will be used for the electric engine unit (and eventually for the express transport belt things). Comments?

Sounds good, allows for earlier use of Trains/Cars. Also like the idea of Express Belts using lubricant, seems fitting for something that is as "advanced" as the fastest belts.

Can you do me a favor and increase the Car Hp a bit.... like +25-50%? Or give it some armor, i dunno. The denser forests, random stones, etc make driving around a bit of an obstacle course.

[Tardan]

Whole Factorio is about starting small, getting bigger. What about having different tiers when it comes to cars and trains. As well as engines.
tier 1:
compact steam engine - requires lots of iron, gears and steel to build - any fuel to power (wood, coal, solid fuel)
- required to build:
-> steam car
-> steam locomotive
(slow, not so fuel efficient)
tier 2:
combustion engine - requires lubricant, steel, copper - solid fuel (better barreled liquid, though)
- required to build:
-> diesel car
-> diesel locomotive
(medium fast, more fuel efficient)
tier 3:
electric engine - requires combustion engine, some circuits, batteries, steel - solid fuel (better barreled liquid, though)
- required to build:
-> electric car
-> electric locomotive
(fast, even more fuel efficient)

May then also split the current 'steam engine' and just have it as partial element for electricity generation. Maybe it would blend nicely with other power alternatives. Have machine called Dynamo that can be connected to (just placed next to) steam engine ( in the future wind turbine, ... ). So one part will provide kinetic energy and dynamo transforms it to electric energy. Choice for the kinetic energy provider will then depend on player and his starting location and availability of resources.
Sorry if it was already discussed somewhere else..

i like this idea all games with cars need more cars

[Coolthulhu]

While we're at it, car should be able to equip modules for armor and generate energy for them from fuel.

[ssilk]

Like.