Trains numbers for circuit network in v0.13

[Neotix]

As we know, in 0.13 we will get smart train stop that can be turned on/off by circuit network.
I know that that idea will be developed and i want to suggest to add feature to set number for train (in real life each train have number and name).
When train arrive, that number would be send into circuit network and can be used to determine which strain arrive.
Then it could be used to set signal and send that train to specific station.

[ArderBlackard]

As far as I understand, the circuit network stores not simple abstract numbers. It works on the counts of some real items or virtual signals. Having this in mind it's not so obvious how the train number can be represented.

[ssilk]

As far as I understand, the circuit network stores not simple abstract numbers. It works on the counts of some real items or virtual signals. Having this in mind it's not so obvious how the train number can be represented.

The train has of course some number, and from development standpoint it's the same than item count (an integer) but I don't like the idea to program with such numbers around, cause the train gets a new number, when anything changes...
For example you add a new wagon to the end: Train gets a new number. Or the train crashes into a biter and loses it's loco.

Instead I want to have routes, cause routes don't crash into a biter. Routes are stable over time. Trains can have any route. Thinking in special cases for one train is not the right way.

See also this thread, where I said about the same: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=25944 Train station skipping conditions

[DaveMcW]

The circuit network can read cargo wagon contents, so just fill a slot with a unique number of items.

[Neotix]

cause the train gets a new number, when anything changes...
For example you add a new wagon to the end: Train gets a new number. Or the train crashes into a biter and loses it's loco.

Train schedule is changing like you describe? Why you assume that train number would be different?
Train number is addition to the schedule that help to control train and change next station if needed (in fact I should name that not train number but schedule number). Basen on the condition we could send train where it's needed and skip stations where it's not.

I know that in v0.13 we will able to turn on/off the stations but it's too extreme for me because if one station need something and don't need something else, we can't order some trains to go there and some to skip that station. We have to build one station for each item and turn them on/off. If section need 20 different items then we have to build 20 stations.

[ssilk]

No, the schedule doesn't change. But the "old train" is deleted, and internally copied into a "new train". And that train has then a new number of course.

A route (something, which doesn't exists yet in Factorio) doesn't need to be copied like that.

[Neotix]

You're speaking about train number as entity ID (or something similar) that is generated automatically by game itself. I'm speaking about number that can be set by player like name and placed in schedule. So when schedule is coped from old train to new one it also copy number.
In that way when train with specific schedule will generate signal witch amount equal to set number.
Using that signal we could choose to which station is schedule train should go. Like go back for resource until buffer if full and then go further.

[ssilk]

You're speaking about train number as entity ID (or something similar) that is generated automatically by game itself. I'm speaking about number that can be set by player like name and placed in schedule. So when schedule is coped from old train to new one it also copy number.

So you mean you re-name the trains like numbers? Huuu... that is quite ugly... And you cannot have two trains with the same name. Doesn't make sense. So if you name the first train "14", then the copied train have the name "14 (copy)".

Ok, I see there are basic lack of knowledge. I explain the definition of the route a bit more.
If you copy a schedule to another train, the first schedule is not just equal, it's a real copy. Both schedules should not be equal to the other, cause it is individual per train - you can change them at every moment.
What you mean is a "route". That is my current term of explaining what you mean. It doesn't currently exist in Factorio, but should.
A route can be created from a schedule. And then - instead of having individual schedules - you assign the route to more than one train.
The route doesn't belong any longer to an individual train, it can belong to many. If you change the route you change the schedule of all trains with that route!

In that way when train with specific schedule will generate signal witch amount equal to set number.
Using that signal we could choose to which station is schedule train should go. Like go back for resource until buffer if full and then go further.

Well, again, please don't see that for individual trains only. That is just thinking too small.
I played a lot with stuff like that and it isn't worth the hassle. It just makes sense if you have in minimum two (better 3) trains, that access the same station/schedule.

Setting them both the same route will enable to change the route depending on the resource buffers. This is the way it works also in many similar games. Otherwise it will become soon a difficult micromanagement.

A route is also some kind of "virtual": It is no entity on map. It exists globally, so you can access them at every time.
That enables you to "program" a route. If you do that per train (change the schedule of a train), the sight changes with every station and over time. That gets very soon quite complex and unmaintainable for bigger maps.

Finally this enables to use a route as a (virtual) thing, that can be altered depending on circuit states in your Factory. Which is what you want.

[Neotix]

I'm playing with smart trains and it only lack train identification (we have only signal that train is no station but we don't know which train).
Train stops and entire train system development will probably set course similar to that mod and that's why I propose to add feature to identify trains on station.
Additionally we will have smart inserters that filter can be controlled by circuit network. Train identification will allow to use that feature and for example on one station load different items on different trains.

You accuse my to think too small buy I think that you think too big and just over complicate simple feature.

[ssilk]

I'm playing with smart trains and it only lack train identification (we have only signal that train is no station but we don't know which train).
Train stops and entire train system development will probably set course similar to that mod and that's why I propose to add feature to identify trains on station.

O.K. So I would say, that "identification of trains" depends in my eyes on
- train configuration
- route/schedule

In other words: If a train has the same stations and is similar configured (same length, with same wagon filters), then they are the same train.
The logic is equal to those of train-stops: If two stops have the same name they are handled identically. (*)

My term for that equality is "route".

I really don't want, that two equal trains, which drive to the same stations and are exactly similar configured can do different things. That breaks game-emergence in many different ways.

You accuse my to think too small buy I think that you think too big and just over complicate simple feature.

I think we talk nearly about the same thing, but with different words and different depth of understanding the dependencies.


PS: If you use the smart train mod then try to use the routes, maybe then you understand, what I mean.


(*) For a train it is no difference. Only the way to that train-stop differs. But if the train reaches the train-stop, it doesn't matter, which of the train-stops.

[Xgkkp]

I'm not sure why it has to be that complicated. Just have the train act like a constant combinator.

Trains can already have unique property e.g. color assigned. Just have an extra property for e.g. "Constant" - just like the constant combinator. When a train is pulled into a station (or, whatever the same condition that causes the station to send the network data to the train), have the train send the "Constant" to the station's network. You could as well as "Send to train" on the network options for the station, have "Read Train".

I really don't want, that two equal trains, which drive to the same stations and are exactly similar configured can do different things. That breaks game-emergence in many different ways.

You already have this. Youcan already have trains with different colours that do the same things.

And trains with different fuel sources that e.g. do the same thing. As far as emergence, you could have one train with 1 coal and another with 150 and the in-game properties would otherwise be perfectly identical except one train wouldn't reach the destination. Or, logic that causes trains loads to differ according to wagon loads, traffic lights to depend on network conditions etc.

[xylaant@gmail.com]

Personally, I'd love to see them add functionality where we can set a signal on each locomotive, which we can read at the train stop while it's there.

In 0.14 I'm using SmartTrains to do this by assigning trains to lines, and reading the line # from the stop, but I'm not using much else from train stops.

I've used this to implement a system where each remote base can order items from a central logistics repository, and the requests from reach remote base is handled by reading which train is at the loading area.

[Tekky]

Very good news. According to this post by a Factorio developer, the original poster's suggestion will be implemented, at least the part about sending a unique Train-ID to the circuit network. However, the part of the suggestion regarding sending the train to a specific station will still not be possible, unless you disable stations using the circuit network.