Development and Discussion

[Arch666Angel]

Oho theorycrafting

You always have to keep in mind that there is no "real" increase in yield with the refining, for the sorted ores it is always a 1 to 1 ratio, only exception is the early smelting of the raw ores, everything else is the "loss" by having the slag as byproduct, but as BlakeMW pointed out slag is just another method/way of conversion with is slightly less efficient.
I haven't calculated all ways and steps you could take, but I don't need to if I stick to the rule of the 1 to 1 ratio. So your decision which refining steps to take and which not, or how to mix the steps in between and which way to produce a certain ore is up to your preference and probably playstyle.
Take away: You don't have to do all the refining steps just because you can do them, only upgrade your refining if you are able to handle the outputs and byproducts and think about which other ways are in the mod to get what you want.

...If you're genuinely interested in large quantities of the advanced ores then each more advanced step is better than the previous (although flotation is particularly weak). Otoh if you only want small quantities of specific advanced ores, then you're much better served sticking with sorting to maximize slag.

If you look solely at the ores you might be right, but you have to consider that you will also get the waste water -> sulfur and the geodes -> gems from the floatation step, so there is more than just gems to get from it.

Edit:
Angels Infinite Ores
---0.3.2
-added support for Dark Matter Replicator mod
-added option to enable a loweryield mode in the config: loweryield will add a probability to the ore output of the infinite ores, so that they will produce less ore overall and even less with lower yields
-added modifier for loweryield to the config, changes the probability with which ores are produced

[SoulForge]

Hello Angel!

I posted it on the mods page but the dark matter mod causes an error with the new version of infinite ores.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3R7mf ... sp=sharing

[Arch666Angel]

Hello Angel!

I posted it on the mods page but the dark matter mod causes an error with the new version of infinite ores.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/0B3R7mf ... sp=sharing

Thanks for the report, missed a "," there and also discovered another issue. New version will be up in 10 minutes.

Edit: Should be fixed.

Forgot that the infinite tenemut needs to load for each of the 3 cases I have (base, bob, angels)

[orzelek]

You sneakishly changed the refining to require sulfuric acid and produce even more waste water. And we didn't get more efficiency - only even more processing
Is there a plan for lvl 2 hydro plant?

And what we can do with liquified geodes?
I upgraded mod in running game and I'm thinking I might be missing something. Geode processing 2 allows liquifying but nothing to do with liquid that we get. It seems that new recipes weren't unlocked for already researched techs?

[Arch666Angel]

You sneakishly changed the refining to require sulfuric acid and produce even more waste water. And we didn't get more efficiency - only even more processing

That is kind of in preparation for the petrochems mod, to have use for all the extra chemicals and of course for the new liquifier.

Is there a plan for lvl 2 hydro plant?

Added (see below)

And what we can do with liquified geodes?
I upgraded mod in running game and I'm thinking I might be missing something. Geode processing 2 allows liquifying but nothing to do with liquid that we get. It seems that new recipes weren't unlocked for already researched techs?

I'm always too fast/stupid to make the migration script right, I should take notes while changing things to remember what I need to include -_-

------
Refining
---0.2.7
-Fixed migration (hopefully)
-Added recipe to turn crystal slurry into mineral sludge
-Added Hydro Plant Mk2
-Added recipe to turn crushed stone into mineralized water

[kinnom]

That is kind of in preparation for the petrochems mod, to have use for all the extra chemicals and of course for the new liquifier.

so, does mean that petrochem will be out soon?
(seriously though, I really want it. I don't even care about the missing animations and flamestack)

[lord_Venom]

After last update i can't run factorio.
During loading game, error message pop out: error in assignID, recipe with name 'slag-processing-dissolution-2' does not exist
and then game crash

[BlakeMW]

Oho theorycrafting

It's only theorycrafting if the results are impractical .

A question like "How can I maximize the yield of a certain metal or metals" is very important. Incidentally, I find your mod generally well balanced. Some modders seem to just use numbers at random, but you're very mathematical.

On the other hand some of the results are not very intuitive. It is unintuitive that you get less iron out of more refined processing, the only way we can attempt to rationalize this is that the less refined process produces a larger quantity of lower quality metal. IRL we would expect that when say, processing copper ore, a more advanced refining method would extract more copper, and more associated metals, more of everything. Altough in Angel's Processing the ores are more like feedstocks for alchemy, which is fine in the context of a game, it's just we can't apply our intuition to figure out the rules.

...If you're genuinely interested in large quantities of the advanced ores then each more advanced step is better than the previous (although flotation is particularly weak). Otoh if you only want small quantities of specific advanced ores, then you're much better served sticking with sorting to maximize slag.

If you look solely at the ores you might be right, but you have to consider that you will also get the waste water -> sulfur and the geodes -> gems from the floatation step, so there is more than just gems to get from it.

True, though they are often just more waste products to get rid of. When playing bobs lead oxide can provide all the sulfuric acid you really need, so the sulfur from flotation is only really needed if using it in the leaching step too.

In my latest game I've been grinding and sorting Saphirite to get all my Iron and most my Copper, and also large quantities of slag to "subsidize" other processing.
I've been processing Bobmonium up to flotation to get Tin, Quartz, Cobalt, Zinc
I'm also using flotation on Rubyete to get Lead, Nickel, Aluminium and Gold - later I'll extend up to refining to get Titanium and Tungsten too (until then I'm extracting it from slag)
The flotation water is mostly being evaporated (I love the clarifier, much less cheesy than steam engines), though I do use some saline and mineralized water.

I'm using the combining recipes to get more Tin, Lead and Copper - I could probably also be using flotation on Crotinnium to get Copper, Iron, Tin and Lead, although the combining recipes are nice because there is no need to match consumption, the chains have no waste products besides stone, and besides which I've got to do something with my tanks of mineral slurry and now I know that using it as brown catalyst in combining recipes is a very efficient way to get more ores of a particular kind.

By the way: A request.

It'd be nice to have a way to turn Algae into Oil. The hydrothermal liquefaction process could be used to make crude oil. Another plausible process would be to make light oil which might be better in terms of balance, as the output could be cracked to petroleum gas but you wouldn't be freed from a dependency on heavy oil.

[Arch666Angel]

After last update i can't run factorio.
During loading game, error message pop out: error in assignID, recipe with name 'slag-processing-dissolution-2' does not exist
and then game crash

Forgot to also change the recipe in the vanilla technology. Should be fixed
---0.2.8
-Fixed error with vanilla

[lord_Venom]

Well, one error fixed, but i have another one: error in assignID, recipe with name 'water-mineralized' does not exis

[orzelek]

How do you use mineralized water?
Only use I found was to get it into clarifiers - I have small farm of them now.
I'm using saline water to make ferric chloride - works quite well but needed small overflow valve since I make more of it then needed.

[Nexela]

Not sure with the current release but I think the only thing I found that uses mineral water was the algae ponds

[Arch666Angel]

Mineral water is going into the recipe to basically turn goedes into more mineral sludge, so you can choose to either have the geodes go into gem crystallizing or into ore crystallizing, I consider the gem-slurry higher quality because it is more rare than the slag.

The bio processing will have recipes with different algaes (green, blue, red) which require different water types to grow (thermal, mineral, waste), but thats for later

[orzelek]

Ahh I didn't try the algae - greenhouses are much simplier to use
Would need to see if they are worth the effort efficiency wise. Especially if they would do that as side effect and use up mineralized water.

[Arch666Angel]

Well, one error fixed, but i have another one: error in assignID, recipe with name 'water-mineralized' does not exis

Sry for the trouble, should be fixed

[Arch666Angel]

Ahh I didn't try the algae - greenhouses are much simplier to use
Would need to see if they are worth the effort efficiency wise. Especially if they would do that as side effect and use up mineralized water.

The bio processing will basically be the split from the current processing mod and should act as a kind of "do something with the byproducts and turn them into another feedstock" thing. So bio fuel is an option and harvesting rare chemicals from the algae another, beside the current use as a wood feedstock. But I'm not working on that currently.

[lord_Venom]

Well, one error fixed, but i have another one: error in assignID, recipe with name 'water-mineralized' does not exis

Sry for the trouble, should be fixed

Everything works. Thank you very much

[steinio]

Hello,

are there any plans to enhance the steel production?

The processed iron ore give a good amount of iron plates, but steel processing falls back to vanilla and takes forever.
Maybe something like iron plate and carbon with 3 instead of 7 ticks or directly using processed iron ore for it.

Greetings steinio

[orzelek]

Ahh I didn't try the algae - greenhouses are much simplier to use
Would need to see if they are worth the effort efficiency wise. Especially if they would do that as side effect and use up mineralized water.

The bio processing will basically be the split from the current processing mod and should act as a kind of "do something with the byproducts and turn them into another feedstock" thing. So bio fuel is an option and harvesting rare chemicals from the algae another, beside the current use as a wood feedstock. But I'm not working on that currently.

Main issue I have with it that it makes synthetic wood in quite complex way. And it needs resin - so you'd need to pipe some heavy oil there still to make resin out of it then use it to make synthetic wood. Might be worth playing around with it in very low oil circumstances.
And then that oil cost can be used to fuel bob's greenhouse with fertilizer recipe which is quite effective at making wood. And it will use much less of it in greenhouse also.

I'd find it much more useful if one could press algae into wood

[makapse]

5 synth wood needing 3 resin is plain insane unless the resin is drived from oil as the raw wood needed for those 3 resin would give 6 wood. So only the paste recipies make sense ,from what i think. Also, what is supposed to be the output from the infinite ores? I am asking as i am shown around 60/s when hovering over the mine and 0.2/s after clicking it but the ore yeild is listed from 40 to 70%.