Whats the stance on griefing ?

[Kewlhotrod]

I am not saying this going to happen, but if someone is using our service, namely the matching server, to troll and harass our players, to bully people, or to demean them or any other abusive or illegal acts, then it is our duty to the players to protect them from such players. While we do not own and operate any of the servers, we are acting as a way for players to connect and interact with each other, and for any service this comes with this responsibility.

The last thing i want to do is to revoke matching server access to players, and there will be fair warning if anybody comes close to this, but it will be an option for us if we have to do it.

so for arugment sake my ISP should perm ban me from the [Moderated by Koub] internet because i'm anti social? where do you draw the line.

[ChurchOrganist]

an accidental hold on the "c" key with auto-shotty

I play with a game controller set up for factorio. Unfortunately I have the <SHIFT> and C buttons set up next to each other. Several times lately I have tried to use my pocket bots to place an item only to find I have placed it myself and then blown it to bits immediately with the combat shotgun

I'm guessing therefore that such accidents are all too common.

[Klonan]

I am not saying this going to happen, but if someone is using our service, namely the matching server, to troll and harass our players, to bully people, or to demean them or any other abusive or illegal acts, then it is our duty to the players to protect them from such players. While we do not own and operate any of the servers, we are acting as a way for players to connect and interact with each other, and for any service this comes with this responsibility.

The last thing i want to do is to revoke matching server access to players, and there will be fair warning if anybody comes close to this, but it will be an option for us if we have to do it.

so for arugment sake my ISP should perm ban me from the [Moderated by Koub] internet because i'm anti social? where do you draw the line.

This is a false argument, we are providing a direct means of communicating with other people, and in any communication service if you are malicious or disruptive to our players and our community it is our right to remove you from the service.

[Kewlhotrod]

This is a false argument, we are providing a direct means of communicating with other people, and in any communication service if you are malicious or disruptive to our players and our community it is our right to remove you from the service.

how is that not an argument?

[Moderated by Koub]

also I wouldn't go spouting that nonsence yet, tos saids you cant do that yet, nor does the game doesn't even have the capability to lock people out of it.

[aka13]

It sounds like real madness, rewoking game access for anything. Since when is dev = law? I completely agree with forum policing for example, but trying to intervene in any way with private servers? On a game which proudly states "no drm"? Sounds like a bad joke to me.

[Klonan]

This is a false argument, we are providing a direct means of communicating with other people, and in any communication service if you are malicious or disruptive to our players and our community it is our right to remove you from the service.

how is that not an argument?

[Moderated by Koub]

also I wouldn't go spouting that nonsence yet, tos saids you cant do that yet, nor does the game doesn't even have the capability to lock people out of it.

I am not saying we own the server, but we operate the authentication and matching server, and it would be irresponsible for us to let a user continue using these services when he is harassing people.

Terms of service is due for an update, and it is our right to revoke access to our services if you are breaking our terms of service:

We reserve the right to suspend accounts of users that will clearly violate the terms of service or our privacy policy. In such a case we will first try to resolve the situation by communicating with the user. Suspending the account is the last resort.

[Kewlhotrod]

I am not saying we own the server, but we operate the authentication and matching server, and it would be irresponsible for us to let a user continue using these services when he is harassing people.

[Moderated by Koub]

[Klonan]

I am not saying we own the server, but we operate the authentication and matching server, and it would be irresponsible for us to let a user continue using these services when he is harassing people.

[Moderated by Koub].

Servers and players are free to connect without using our authentication or matching server

[Killavirus]

This is a false argument, we are providing a direct means of communicating with other people, and in any communication service if you are malicious or disruptive to our players and our community it is our right to remove you from the service.

how is that not an argument?

[Moderated by Koub]

also I wouldn't go spouting that nonsence yet, tos saids you cant do that yet, nor does the game doesn't even have the capability to lock people out of it.

First off chill out? there is no need for aggression here, You sound atm like you get banned from stuff alot ????
Secondly, why do you assume you "own" the server on your computer, This is software you have a license to run: YOU in no way "OWN" the code. If the terms and conditions state that "you must behave in a responsible manner amongst the community otherwise we revoke your right to run our code" where is the issue in that ? This is perfectly legal standard behaviour. And yes if you are abusive on the internet, your ISP can be ordered / or decide to no longer provide you service. (Why do you assume you have the "right" to these things ???)
You talk about the community policing itself, where is this option what are your ideas on this? You going to be leader of that list ? What happens if you get bored / or die? What if its your mate that gets reported? This is much better in the hands of an unbiased party e.g. the Dev's (although on that note, personally I would prefer to see a transparent system in place)

Allowing Trolls and griefers full free unpunished reign over the server browser is a quicker form of suicide for any game.

[Kewlhotrod]

Servers and players are free to connect without using our authentication or matching server

so players which you have deemed bad will have a gimped, multiplayer experience using the old (current) code, or you'll just revoke there game entirely and make it so you have to logon even for singleplayer? (DRM) [Moderated by Koub]

First off chill out? there is no need for aggression here, You sound atm like you get banned from stuff alot ????
Secondly, why do you assume you "own" the server on your computer, This is software you have a license to run: YOU in no way "OWN" the code. If the terms and conditions state that "you must behave in a responsible manner amongst the community otherwise we revoke your right to run our code" where is the issue in that ? This is perfectly legal standard behaviour. And yes if you are abusive on the internet, your ISP can be ordered / or decide to no longer provide you service. (Why do you assume you have the "right" to these things ???)
You talk about the community policing itself, where is this option what are your ideas on this? You going to be leader of that list ? What happens if you get bored / or die? What if its your mate that gets reported? This is much better in the hands of an unbiased party e.g. the Dev's (although on that note, personally I would prefer to see a transparent system in place)

Allowing Trolls and griefers full free unpunished reign over the server browser is a quicker form of suicide for any game.

oh like minecraft, garrys mod, rust, civ5, csgo, terraria, arma3 all games which police itself. I'm not advocating trolls go unpunished [Moderated by Koub] , quite the opposite but not via developers, BY SERVER OWNERS, and yes I understand the code is proprietary software which is not something I generally agree with[Moderated by Koub].

[Moderated by Koub]

[Koub]

There has been excessiely aggressive and disrespectful posting on this topic. I'll let things go - for now, as the subject of the topic can lead to passionate reactions.
Should there be one single post with personnal attacks, or whatever I find not suitably respectful posting, I'd have to slide'n'dice through the topic to remove whatever I find excessive - and I dont like any kind of censorship, so please people, keep moderate and constructive.

[Klonan]

Servers and players are free to connect without using our authentication or matching server

so players which you have deemed bad will have a gimped, multiplayer experience using the old (current) code, or you'll just revoke there game entirely and make it so you have to logon even for singleplayer? (DRM) [Moderated by Koub].

In short, yes. Players access to our multiplayer is not an irrevocable right. Access to the single player will remain DRM free as always, and this point is off topic.

For now, there have been no issues serious enough to warrant a ban from the matching server, and it is not something we would do lightly, as we do respect our community and do like to treat everyone as reasonable adult people (even when they aren't acting in that way). However serious issues warrant a serious response, and abusive or harassing behavior (ie Illegal behaviour) will result in suspension of access to the matching service.

We as a company are open to reasonable discussion on any part of our work, and it is best if you try to present your argument in the most rational and clear way, without using inappropriate comparisons or a foul attitude towards me or the other members of the community.

[Xeteth]

I for one am all for the banning of griefers. It's quite simple - don't be a tool in people's games and you won't ever have to worry about this issue. In fact, unless you are worried about such a ban on yourself you should be thanking the devs for this stance as it keeps the community safe.

This type of thing isn't new in the gaming industry, in fact I've seen keys removed/bans applied for much more trivial matters.

There's no need to get up in arms about who is right, where, what, how, etc. Simply don't grief and forget the issue exists as it doesn't apply to you.

[Killavirus]

I wont bother responding any further, some comments have been offensive antagonising and badly thought out.

@mods feel free to lock this thread as I don't see any further need for it as my questions were answered. Now it just seems to be causing grief and as stated in my original post, I would like to avoid that.

Many thanks all for your input.

[Kewlhotrod]

snip

well thank you for enlightening me on your future policy, also heh I would like to point out

I for one am all for the banning of griefers. It's quite simple - don't be a tool in people's games and you won't ever have to worry about this issue. In fact, unless you are worried about such a ban on yourself you should be thanking the devs for this stance as it keeps the community safe.

This type of thing isn't new in the gaming industry, in fact I've seen keys removed/bans applied for much more trivial matters.

There's no need to get up in arms about who is right, where, what, how, etc. Simply don't grief and forget the issue exists as it doesn't apply to you.

why even have an opinion and criticize developers/publishers?[Moderated by Koub]

I failed as op trying to get my griefer perm banned from mutiplayer, dont wanna draw to much attention to myself pls close, ty

[CMH]

I understand the problem of overpolicing, but maybe CSGo's way might be something to look forward to.

A first infringement is a quick and painless warning, and it gets worse from there.(30 mins - 2 hours - 24 hours - 48 hours. No reason why it can't be as high as 1 month with Factorio). Each period is one rung up with "infringement ladder", going up with each infringement.
You drop in the "infringement ladder" after a certain period of time if you do not continue to cause trouble (1 week with CSGo)

This way, even if you stuffed up badly multiple times it will take a fair amount of time before your record clears.

If we made it say 1day - 3 days - 1 week - 1 month - 3 months, and it takes 1 month to go down (and make this timer start AFTER you've served your time), someone with a 3 month suspension will be out for 3 months before they can come back, and if they grief immediately, its another 3 month suspension, and they can grief once every 3 months. Not really that much fun tbh.

Or a smarter griefer can grief every month. Still not much fun.

Whereas a dumb player can make 2 mistakes and only be out for 4 days. If they can't learn their lesson after that....

[Koub]

My almighty scissors with godly powers have been throughout all the topic, moderating, used because too much personal attacks.
And I don't want to lock the topic because some people - most in fact - at least try to be constructive and not offensive. Just chill and be respectful in your statements.

[scithen]

I understand the problem of overpolicing, but maybe CSGo's way might be something to look forward to.

A first infringement is a quick and painless warning, and it gets worse from there.(30 mins - 2 hours - 24 hours - 48 hours. No reason why it can't be as high as 1 month with Factorio). Each period is one rung up with "infringement ladder", going up with each infringement.
You drop in the "infringement ladder" after a certain period of time if you do not continue to cause trouble (1 week with CSGo)

This way, even if you stuffed up badly multiple times it will take a fair amount of time before your record clears.

If we made it say 1day - 3 days - 1 week - 1 month - 3 months, and it takes 1 month to go down (and make this timer start AFTER you've served your time), someone with a 3 month suspension will be out for 3 months before they can come back, and if they grief immediately, its another 3 month suspension, and they can grief once every 3 months. Not really that much fun tbh.

Or a smarter griefer can grief every month. Still not much fun.

Whereas a dumb player can make 2 mistakes and only be out for 4 days. If they can't learn their lesson after that....

Of all the things I've read in this thread, this is the one I agree with, though I see no issue with warning the community of a griefer. But honestly, after so much time playing a popular MMO (not naming it, but not hard to guess which one) I don't really even read the claims of "Soandso is a ninja, don't invite him!!!" anymore.

As for the mistakes, it'd take a smarter mind than mine to decide what's an accident and what's intentional. I've accidentally blown up inserters, assembling machines, belts, and everything else now that I actually use grenades and the flamethrower. Sometimes I lag or I misclick, and 15+ things get blown up/set on fire. Is that a mistake worth locking someone out for a day? Personally, I don't think so.

Lastly, regarding the use of the deconstruction planner - pay attention to what you see, and correct the issue before you call them out in game. Use it, shift + left click to cancel deconstruction orders. Doesn't solve the issue, I know, and everything will probably get requeued, but for those that issue the order and then bail, little damage is done if you catch it early. Thank god for bots having to clear belts before they can remove them. Shouldn't be too hard to remember how to set up assembling machines, most people use the same designs in their games.

[CMH]

I like the friendly fire thing activating something.... an auto-kick would be nice.

But the damage has to be moderately severe: an accidental hold on the "c" key with auto-shotty shouldn't activate it.

Maybe allow a certain amount of damage to be done, then a full minute of their weapons being disabled, and if it happens again within a certain time (1 hour?) then a kick/ban on that player.

What I wrote earlier. Should help alleviate your fears a bit.

[OdinYggd]

I have been wrongly put on a community-curated ban list before, and I would be interested to see what sort of measures you would put in place to make sure it will not be misused.

In my case it was because some kid decided that my username was too close to his, and called me out for attempting to impersonate him (even though I had the older account by 2 years).

But it could be as simple as building layouts that doesn't agree with others (solar:accumulator ratio?) or a perceived reaction towards biters (as in not attacking them together)? Or just a noob that accidentally built and aggro-ed a huge biter base.

In any of those cases a group might lodge a report against this individual and get them on a ban-list. There wouldn't be any way to get out of it, and even if there was it would be a huge hassle.

But yes, a way to deal with grievers will be nice, but has to be properly curated.

My strategy for approaching it would be to treat it like the DroneBL IP blacklist. I'm pretty sure we could store account IDs as a TXT record, making it possible to use DNS servers to handle high query volumes from participating servers checking if someone is listed or not.

You then provide a website where you can check if your name is blacklisted, and request removal from that list if you think it was a misunderstanding. Of course, if you get back on it too many times you might not be able to come off anymore.

Minecraft has username blacklists too that I participated in for some time when managing a server, but ultimately I stopped supporting that project- turns out their service was more often than not being used to grief people by wrongful blacklisting, and the staff there had basically given up trying to counteract this.

Unfortunately griefing is just a fact of life when it comes to online games. The best countermeasure you can deploy is to cultivate a healthy and close community that will point out and shut down any griefers as quickly as practical.