[0.13] Make inserter stack bonus individually configurable

[MindChanger]

Like that it can work too I think, but not so nicely (can block inserter if for example creating iron plates ends).
But I don't see any builds that wouldn't be possible compared to current version. Current version allows only picking max inserter's capcity anyway, so maybe max what had to be changed is amount of signals for item types to be more than inserter's capacity.
As of algorithm compare I can't think of examples that couldn't work with my setup, but with MeduSalem's setup yes.

[Tinyboss]

How about something like this?



The stack size limit could be a constant or a circuit network signal, and would be clamped between zero and the inserter's maximum stack size. This would be completely flexible but still easy to use, and for example would make moving N items with a stack inserter behave in the optimal way (feed the amount needed into the stack size signal).

[MindChanger]

The stack size limit could be a constant or a circuit network signal, and would be clamped between zero and the inserter's maximum stack size. This would be completely flexible but still easy to use, and for example would make moving N items with a stack inserter behave in the optimal way (feed the amount needed into the stack size signal).

Yes, this is what I proposed (setting it using circuit network signal). I think it is more flexible than other proposal on last page.

[Cabanur]

Just registered to talk about this.

I have a requester chest which feeds into a train wagon with all slots filtered. It requests over 10 different items. It happens too often that the inserter will try to insert 5 iron, but only 4 fit. The inserter will get stuck with one iron on the hand while there's a bunch of different items on the requester chest (engines, chips, whatever) that could be transfered to the train wagon but won't because the inserter is stuck. I can provide pictures if i'm not clear about this.

One of the features hyped (can't post url to fff-140 because first post) for the .13 release whas the ability to use a single chest/inserter to supply (import to) a base's needs. I love this feature and I'm so grateful they impleemented this. It seems only reasonable to make it possible to export multiple things with a single inserter, too. This cannot be done reliably as of now.

This will hardly work with belts I think, as it can be sometimes hard to get 3 irons at once to be picked up

There's already a system in place where if the inserter can't pick up more items for a set amount of time from the belt (to complete the stack size) it'll proceed to insert whatever it has in the hand, so it wouldn't be an issue.

Another solution could be that after taking from the chest, if the inserter can't put the item down for x time (half second?), it could try to put it back in the chest. This is in my opinion less elegant than using the circuit network to tell filter inserters how much to filter, but it seems to me as more newbie-friendly.

[siggboy]

It seems only reasonable to make it possible to export multiple things with a single inserter, too. This cannot be done reliably as of now.

It can be done but it requires combinator finesse and contraptions (e.g. at least one other inserter that removes items from the target container to unlock the loading inserter, and other shenanigans). A flexible inserter bonus would simplify these solutions (or you could set it to "1" and then you'd have a slow, but extremely simple, loading solution).

It would also help with making smart furnaces.

[ssilk]

Very nice, but as the others already stated with using the filters for that we could change the stack size via circuits, while it is working.
I can think a number of things that could be done with that and I think when you reduce the number to 1 while filling a train it solves also the problem with the one item left.

@Cabanur: See viewtopic.php?f=8&t=28268 Smart supply-train loader + other solutions

[MindChanger]

I can think a number of things that could be done with that and I think when you reduce the number to 1 while filling a train it solves also the problem with the one item left.

Using 1 capacity filling could last really long. If you implement signal based inserter's capticity it could be done faster reading amount of items in stuck inserter and just taking it away from train, I gor already idea how to do it if this will be implemented

also Cabanur: viewtopic.php?f=8&t=28268
Don't know if you saw this, but I and some other guys are creating solutions for filling trains. And it is as you said - unloading the train, etc. But this doesn't work as good as it could with idea from this thread

[ssilk]

No. You fill it with full capacity and switching to lower stack sizes when you come near to the filling limits. So first it fills as fast as possible and short before you reach the limit you switch the stack limit to 1 and fill in the remaining items carefully one by one.

BTW/Off-Topic: For that you really need to know the content of each wagon.

[Cabanur]

BTW/Off-Topic: For that you really need to know the content of each wagon.

I wish there was a way to read train's contents...

[MindChanger]

No. You fill it with full capacity and switching to lower stack sizes when you come near to the filling limits. So first it fills as fast as possible and short before you reach the limit you switch the stack limit to 1 and fill in the remaining items carefully one by one.

BTW/Off-Topic: For that you really need to know the content of each wagon.

You can check my link, we got there working examples. When you take out exact amount of items (like number and item type in blocked inserter) then blocked inserter will put all items into the train and those items will be at full avaible capacity
Why is that? Inserter puts all avaible items and all items that inserter holds is "overflow".

[siggboy]

BTW/Off-Topic: For that you really need to know the content of each wagon.

I wish there was a way to read train's contents...

There is a way. The SmartTrains mod.

[Tinyboss]

Very nice, but as the others already stated with using the filters for that we could change the stack size via circuits, while it is working.
I can think a number of things that could be done with that and I think when you reduce the number to 1 while filling a train it solves also the problem with the one item left.

@Cabanur: See viewtopic.php?f=8&t=28268 Smart supply-train loader + other solutions

Oh wow, I forgot that stack filter inserters exist. Now I am in favor of doing it that way.

[MeduSalem]

Filter Stack Inserter could have ability to control amount of holding items.

... and each filter signal specifies its own amount of holding items. So it could look like that for example:
Filter Signal 1: Iron Ore = 3
Filter Signal 2: Copper Ore = 1

Yes, that's a very reasonable approach. It should probably behind an option, though (checkbox such as "limit stack bonus to signal values").

Of course it should be an option that can be activated. I'm not for forcing something on people unless they know what they are doing.

How about something like this?



The stack size limit could be a constant or a circuit network signal, and would be clamped between zero and the inserter's maximum stack size. This would be completely flexible but still easy to use, and for example would make moving N items with a stack inserter behave in the optimal way (feed the amount needed into the stack size signal).

Would be fine for regular inserters except filter inserters.

With filter inserters you may have problems then... because how would one apply varying stacksizes depending on each individual filter?

For example one might want to have a different stacksize for Iron Ore than for Stone Plates. Like "move 13 Iron Ore" but "move 10 Iron Plates"

With having only one stacksize input the inserter wouldn't know what filter to map the stacksize to so it would have to map the same stacksize to ALL filters... which then becomes really problematic.


So my approach of using the filter signals themselves as stack sizes would cover all possibilities, including yours.

[Tinyboss]

So my approach of using the filter signals themselves as stack sizes would cover all possibilities, including yours.

I agree, using the quantities as a stack size limit when setting the filter from the circuit network is the perfect solution. I didn't like that only filter inserters could be used that way, but I was forgetting about the existence of stack filter inserters. I think your method is optimal.

[Cabanur]

I agree, using the quantities as a stack size limit when setting the filter from the circuit network is the perfect solution.

I think we can all agree. Devs pls giff.

[Jengles]

I too registered just to chime in on this thread!

I just wanted to echo what many have stated this far:

One of the biggest joys of the circuit network is to precisely calculate item quantities, dependencies, requirements, etc. There's all this new hotness in .13 that allows us to read items from more places and have finer control, great! But we actually lost precise control with the new inserter stack bonus applying to non-stack inserters, and working on belts. There's no easy to precisely deliver quantities of items to destinations due to this stack bonus. People have recommended many great solutions here, another one would just be to apply the stack bonus to ONLY the stack inserters (regular ones always only pick up one).

My current biggest pain point is that I want to use the same furnaces for iron, copper, stone, and steel. This is extremely difficult in .13 because there is no easy way to guarantee precisely 5 (or a multiple of 5) iron plate arrive at a furnace when my inserter is picking up 3 each time. Because of this, production can get stuck when I want to switch from steel production to iron production. I'm sure there are many more situations such as this.

While I am adamant that there needs to be some solution, obviously I trust the devs to find the right one. Thanks for listening.

[Zeblote]

another one would just be to apply the stack bonus to ONLY the stack inserters (regular ones always only pick up one).

Nope. Many people like that feature and removing it just so very few others can move precise numbers of items isn't the way to go.

[Jengles]

Just curious, in what cases would you really want a inserter limited at 3 stack size when 12 is available?

[MindChanger]

Just curious, in what cases would you really want a inserter limited at 3 stack size when 12 is available?

To pick up items from the train when blocked inserter got in hand 3 items (so everything will unlock).

[Zeblote]

Just curious, in what cases would you really want a inserter limited at 3 stack size when 12 is available?

The stack inserter takes too long to pick up items from the belt, so by the time it dumps them into a level 3 assembler it has already stopped working. The fast inserter needs to move more often but you don't get pauses.

I'm not sure if this should be reported as a bug (stack inserter waking up too late when used with fast assemblers) or it's supposed to be that way.