Development and Discussion

[hoho]

Is there an early game way to automate the plate production? I couldn't figure out how to seperate the ore from the stone outputs in the crusher without going to sorters, which with bob's mods is quite a ways off?

Before I get smart/filter inserters I just use chests as intermediate stone/ore storage between crushers and sorters/smelters. Basically, just belt the crushed ores and stone from crushers to near sorter, use inserters to put it into chests and use another row of inserters to pull the ores from chest directly into the sorter while leaving stone behind.

Something like this attached screenshot but just use sorter in place of the furnace (I didn't have angel's stuff installed at the moment as it doesn't work that well with marathon).

427520_screenshots_20160706194614_1.jpg (626.62 KiB) Viewed 8465 times

[Phantum]

There are several ways you can handle this, the one is use most of the time is to put the mixed crushed stone + ore belt through the furnace column and if you made the column long enough there is only the excess stone at the end which can go to an assembler line crafting stone from crushed. Thats for the direct smelting of saphirite etc.

If you sort the raw ores and have a mixed belt of copper, iron and slag you can do something similar with the ore processing plat at the moment, one belt, on one side you have processing plants taking copper ore to make processed copper on the other you have processing plants making processed iron whats left at the end of the line is the slag.

oh nice, thanks

[drayath]

If you don't mind the occasional manual emptying of chests



add one stack of coal to the 3 inner smelter chests and will run to 30ish minutes before you need to empty the crushed stone/slag/plates

[Arch666Angel]

[Carch]

There are several ways you can handle this, the one is use most of the time is to put the mixed crushed stone + ore belt through the furnace column and if you made the column long enough there is only the excess stone at the end which can go to an assembler line crafting stone from crushed. Thats for the direct smelting of saphirite etc.

If you sort the raw ores and have a mixed belt of copper, iron and slag you can do something similar with the ore processing plat at the moment, one belt, on one side you have processing plants taking copper ore to make processed copper on the other you have processing plants making processed iron whats left at the end of the line is the slag.

oh nice, thanks

what I tend to do is run 2 electric mines straight into a burner ore crusher, and have either burner (really early) or normal insterters pull the crushed ore directly into furnaces. can run 4 stone furnaces almost continuously of saphirite into iron plates, and 2 stone furnaces almost continuously of the copper source I've forgotten the name of. this is before any ore sorting. just have to empty out the crushed stone manually for a while.
OR, even. with the right arranging of the electric miners, you can pull the crushed stone into an assembler to turn into regular stone and then stone bricks almost as soon as you research the assemblers

[Phantum]

do we know when the petrochem will come about?

[orzelek]

Did you change how disabling of catalysts works or I missed something?
I think previously disabling them removed all catalysts now it removed artifact based ones. Basic one is still around.
My belt spaghetti might not survive this

Small question - is there a specialized recipe for uranium for nucular or only 4 ore sorting one?

[Arch666Angel]

do we know when the petrochem will come about?

When it's done It will be out in union with the smelting mod I think, but there is still much to do to have it really playable.

Did you change how disabling of catalysts works or I missed something?
I think previously disabling them removed all catalysts now it removed artifact based ones. Basic one is still around.
My belt spaghetti might not survive this

Small question - is there a specialized recipe for uranium for nucular or only 4 ore sorting one?

The brown catalyst is standard for the advanced recipes and is very easy to craft, it is "hardcoded" in the refining recipes. The artefact based are part of the processing mod (will move them to the new bio processing later on) and override the brown ones in the refining.

If you use the newest version there should be advanced recipes for the individual mod ores, look into the advanced refining technologies for them.

[Phantum]

do we know when the petrochem will come about?

When it's done It will be out in union with the smelting mod I think, but there is still much to do to have it really playable.

Did you change how disabling of catalysts works or I missed something?
I think previously disabling them removed all catalysts now it removed artifact based ones. Basic one is still around.
My belt spaghetti might not survive this

Small question - is there a specialized recipe for uranium for nucular or only 4 ore sorting one?

The brown catalyst is standard for the advanced recipes and is very easy to craft, it is "hardcoded" in the refining recipes. The artefact based are part of the processing mod (will move them to the new bio processing later on) and override the brown ones in the refining.

If you use the newest version there should be advanced recipes for the individual mod ores, look into the advanced refining technologies for them.

Can't wait! when I first started with this I was like WTFFFFFFF!@#!@RAD. now I'm like Hell yes, trains are so much nicer to setup with limited ores, and everything is going great, then I run into something else where I'm like WQ%RQ!JA! and I love it haha.

[Kryzeth]

...I can see questions have been raised before about how best to go about using angel's refining processes, so I suppose I should ask here as well. Using a few mods, but sticking mostly to vanilla (no bob ores or yuoki industries).

(1)So my problem is simply overproduction of one material causing the other material to shut down. I tried equal amounts of crushing/sorting saphirite and stiratite, and ended up with too much copper plate, which stopped both sorting processes entirely, preventing iron from being produced at any reasonable rate (trickle usage of copper causes trickle production of iron). Basically... how do you prevent overproduction of one material from hampering the production of the others? I can only imagine this problem being magnified if using bob ores/plates...

(2)Another random bit I noticed, while trying to calculate perfect ratios, is that saphirite and stiratite produce differing amounts of products? Sorting saphirite 10 times, produces 20 crushed iron, 10 pure iron, and 10 copper chunks, which produce 24 iron and 8 copper total when sorted again. Sorting stiratite on the other hand, produces 10 crushed copper, 20 copper crystal, and 10 iron chunks, which produce 25 copper and 8 iron. Even if I were using iron and copper in equal amounts, there'd still be a natural tendency towards copper, which would eventually cause a backlog of copper plate, and cause the same overproduction problem.

(3)After calculating those two, I wondered about using the other ores instead, to see if they provide more or less material, and I noticed that they all seem to produce relatively the same total amount of ore when sorted 10 times (jivolite=27c+7i, rubyte=28c+7i, bobmonium=26c+9i) but then I saw crotinnium produced 37 iron and 7 copper, a full 10 more than all others. Crotinnium doesn't seem to spawn in the starting area (with RSO) so I guess it's more of an endgame ore, but why would it produce so much more iron than copper? Or why wouldn't there be a copper equivalent?

Sad to say, I might have to pass on this mod, despite loving all the early game preprocessing before smelting. The logistics of it just don't seem to work out properly if you're not consuming all of the material... If there's some way to make it all work, I would love to keep this mod though.

That being said, angel processing was a beautiful addition to my previous playthrough, as was infinite ores, so at least those two are golden staples <3

[Phantum]

...I can see questions have been raised before about how best to go about using angel's refining processes, so I suppose I should ask here as well. Using a few mods, but sticking mostly to vanilla (no bob ores or yuoki industries).

(1)So my problem is simply overproduction of one material causing the other material to shut down. I tried equal amounts of crushing/sorting saphirite and stiratite, and ended up with too much copper plate, which stopped both sorting processes entirely, preventing iron from being produced at any reasonable rate (trickle usage of copper causes trickle production of iron). Basically... how do you prevent overproduction of one material from hampering the production of the others? I can only imagine this problem being magnified if using bob ores/plates...

(2)Another random bit I noticed, while trying to calculate perfect ratios, is that saphirite and stiratite produce differing amounts of products? Sorting saphirite 10 times, produces 20 crushed iron, 10 pure iron, and 10 copper chunks, which produce 24 iron and 8 copper total when sorted again. Sorting stiratite on the other hand, produces 10 crushed copper, 20 copper crystal, and 10 iron chunks, which produce 25 copper and 8 iron. Even if I were using iron and copper in equal amounts, there'd still be a natural tendency towards copper, which would eventually cause a backlog of copper plate, and cause the same overproduction problem.

(3)After calculating those two, I wondered about using the other ores instead, to see if they provide more or less material, and I noticed that they all seem to produce relatively the same total amount of ore when sorted 10 times (jivolite=27c+7i, rubyte=28c+7i, bobmonium=26c+9i) but then I saw crotinnium produced 37 iron and 7 copper, a full 10 more than all others. Crotinnium doesn't seem to spawn in the starting area (with RSO) so I guess it's more of an endgame ore, but why would it produce so much more iron than copper? Or why wouldn't there be a copper equivalent?

Sad to say, I might have to pass on this mod, despite loving all the early game preprocessing before smelting. The logistics of it just don't seem to work out properly if you're not consuming all of the material... If there's some way to make it all work, I would love to keep this mod though.

That being said, angel processing was a beautiful addition to my previous playthrough, as was infinite ores, so at least those two are golden staples <3

copious amounts of buffer! ;P

[hoho]

Hypothetically you could use a ton of combinator magic to turn on/off specialized production lines that use catalysts to boost the production of the things you lack that cause producing other things to stall.

In reality, I end up using a LOT of buffers. One of those days I promise I will make a proper ore production with Angel's stuff. Though considering I've yet to launch a rocket in a modded game after 2.5 years of playing and constant restarting due to adding new mods or game updates, I don't keep my hopes up too high

[Arch666Angel]

...I can see questions have been raised before about how best to go about using angel's refining processes, so I suppose I should ask here as well. Using a few mods, but sticking mostly to vanilla (no bob ores or yuoki industries).

(1)So my problem is simply overproduction of one material causing the other material to shut down. I tried equal amounts of crushing/sorting saphirite and stiratite, and ended up with too much copper plate, which stopped both sorting processes entirely, preventing iron from being produced at any reasonable rate (trickle usage of copper causes trickle production of iron). Basically... how do you prevent overproduction of one material from hampering the production of the others? I can only imagine this problem being magnified if using bob ores/plates...

(2)Another random bit I noticed, while trying to calculate perfect ratios, is that saphirite and stiratite produce differing amounts of products? Sorting saphirite 10 times, produces 20 crushed iron, 10 pure iron, and 10 copper chunks, which produce 24 iron and 8 copper total when sorted again. Sorting stiratite on the other hand, produces 10 crushed copper, 20 copper crystal, and 10 iron chunks, which produce 25 copper and 8 iron. Even if I were using iron and copper in equal amounts, there'd still be a natural tendency towards copper, which would eventually cause a backlog of copper plate, and cause the same overproduction problem.

(3)After calculating those two, I wondered about using the other ores instead, to see if they provide more or less material, and I noticed that they all seem to produce relatively the same total amount of ore when sorted 10 times (jivolite=27c+7i, rubyte=28c+7i, bobmonium=26c+9i) but then I saw crotinnium produced 37 iron and 7 copper, a full 10 more than all others. Crotinnium doesn't seem to spawn in the starting area (with RSO) so I guess it's more of an endgame ore, but why would it produce so much more iron than copper? Or why wouldn't there be a copper equivalent?

Sad to say, I might have to pass on this mod, despite loving all the early game preprocessing before smelting. The logistics of it just don't seem to work out properly if you're not consuming all of the material... If there's some way to make it all work, I would love to keep this mod though.

That being said, angel processing was a beautiful addition to my previous playthrough, as was infinite ores, so at least those two are golden staples <3

Thanks for the feedback! The vanilla part is something lackluster no question about that. What I could do is reimplement the advanced recipes so that you could produce the intermediates (crushed iron, iron chunks,...) directly with a bit more complex recipe, like they are in the bobs version.
The ores are meant to have different yields of ores and the one which dont spawn in the starting area to have higher yields than the ones you can find in the starting area.

[orzelek]

The ore production/usage imbalance is also in bobs version.

I just reached the place where I need to prepare for electronic circuit boards and I'm a bit scared of what I see
One thing is that it's a bit hard to find from which ore you can get required materials and then you need to use the 4 ore sorting so amount of needed buffers will be interesting.
Started to reclaim lots of space from biters but high setting in RSO with new migration (and Natural Evolution) is a bit tricky. Without electronic circuit boards there are not that many weapons you can make to help at this stage. Did tanks always require electronic circuit boards to make or I missed something?

[Arch666Angel]

The ore production/usage imbalance is also in bobs version.

I just reached the place where I need to prepare for electronic circuit boards and I'm a bit scared of what I see
One thing is that it's a bit hard to find from which ore you can get required materials and then you need to use the 4 ore sorting so amount of needed buffers will be interesting.
Started to reclaim lots of space from biters but high setting in RSO with new migration (and Natural Evolution) is a bit tricky. Without electronic circuit boards there are not that many weapons you can make to help at this stage. Did tanks always require electronic circuit boards to make or I missed something?

Thats why there are the advanced recipes, the idea is to have a steady but low flow on every material with the general refining (keep in mind you dont need to refine everything the whole way through) and then increse the yield of the ores you really need with the advanced recipes. There is no way I see to really balance the ore output any other way because the amount you use fluctuates so much over the course of a game and with each ore.

The point with the vanilla version is simply there are no advanced recipes to do that at the moment.

Edit: And yes building buffers is one of the things you will probably revert to when playing with the refining

[orzelek]

My main concern is that warehouses are bad for performance so trying to stick to the storehouses.
And compression chests need quite advanced electronics to build and that takes some time with bob's electronic.

Also storing processed ores might be the way to go - that gives big space saving option

Currently I'm mostly adjusting to new base size requirements (what on earth got me to set biters to high for this game ).

[Arch666Angel]

Yeah I had some logistics things in mind when I started with the mods (bigger chests, cargo bot, liquified ores) but they never saw daylight

At the moment I'm not happy with the geodes, I think I overdid it a bit, with too many types of them. Guess I will be limiting them to 2-3 which come out of the processing and the other maybe as drop from mining rocks.

[orzelek]

Yeah I had some logistics things in mind when I started with the mods (bigger chests, cargo bot, liquified ores) but they never saw daylight

At the moment I'm not happy with the geodes, I think I overdid it a bit, with too many types of them. Guess I will be limiting them to 2-3 which come out of the processing and the other maybe as drop from mining rocks.

Didn't figure out what to do with geodes yet. They drop from rocks but you can't do anything with them until further in.

[MuteDay]

Hello Arch666Angel, so i wanted to ask a few things.
1) Currently for me there seams to be no way to get all your mods for 0.13.6
2) Wanted to ask if you could use some help and..................... possibility teach me some of what you have learned about modding factorio

[Aonova]

Yeah I had some logistics things in mind when I started with the mods (bigger chests, cargo bot, liquified ores) but they never saw daylight

At the moment I'm not happy with the geodes, I think I overdid it a bit, with too many types of them. Guess I will be limiting them to 2-3 which come out of the processing and the other maybe as drop from mining rocks.

Didn't figure out what to do with geodes yet. They drop from rocks but you can't do anything with them until further in.

Adding on to that, I kind of found the geode's icons a bit... unnerving. They look like multi colored clones of some crystallized alien . Your rendered 3d sprites for most of your mods look downright professional and awesome, but I think 32x32 icons deserve a bit of photoshop love to look proper. Maybe add some variation to the forms of the different geodes on top of color coding them?