Don't require factorio_version to be changed when not needed

[ssilk]

When it does leave the "experimental" state I'll expect it to be fairly stable, just like 0.12 has been most of the time.

If 0.12 is stable AND 0.13 is also stable it doesn't mean in consequence, that the 0.12 mods are compatible to 0.13. And vice versa.
You're right in pointing to the difference between experimental and stable, but for mods it has nothing to do with being experimental or not.

And I point again to the update between 0.12.11 and 0.12.12: Surely more than 100 mods have been made incompatible. Some where pissed, most of the modders saw the advantages.

And again: You cannot compare WoW modding to Factorio modding. It is so, because it is different. And your arguments are right and correct for WoW, but are going completely over the facts, history and happenings for Factorio.

[siggboy]

And your arguments are right and correct for WoW, but are going completely over the facts, history and happenings for Factorio.

Well let's leave WoW aside then and focus on the original question: should we allow the player to override the version check or not? Since they can override it anyway, if they want, by editing the manifest file of the mod, you might as well add a checkbox to make that easier (per mod or globally) -- the option should point out that "it might break things" but I guess if somebody enables it they should know what they're doing.

[sparr]

Exactly. You can lie. Nobody will check, if you lie.

The devs have suggested that I would be banned from the mod portal if I uploaded a mod today that said it was compatible with Factorio 0.14

[kiba]

And your arguments are right and correct for WoW, but are going completely over the facts, history and happenings for Factorio.

Well let's leave WoW aside then and focus on the original question: should we allow the player to override the version check or not? Since they can override it anyway, if they want, by editing the manifest file of the mod, you might as well add a checkbox to make that easier (per mod or globally) -- the option should point out that "it might break things" but I guess if somebody enables it they should know what they're doing.

The developers should not exhaustively make every configuration possible under the sun implementing every pet ideas about modding and how mods work. Why? Because it increase LOC without corresponding gains.

Writing new lines of code is not free.

[sparr]

The developers should not exhaustively make every configuration possible under the sun implementing every pet ideas about modding and how mods work. Why? Because it increase LOC without corresponding gains.

Writing new lines of code is not free.

You're absolutely right. They should concentrate on options that impact and will be used by the majority of players.

...

[siggboy]

The developers should not exhaustively make every configuration possible under the sun implementing every pet ideas about modding and how mods work. Why? Because it increase LOC without corresponding gains.

Writing new lines of code is not free.

The developers should make useful features. If this is a useful feature, then it should be added.

Writing useful features is not free.

[hoho]

Question is, is this feature useful enough to justify the need for it together with likely "I enabled this but stuff is still broken" spam after new releases in forums.

[siggboy]

The devs change inserter colors for no reason and they change the way how signal wires are connected for no reason.

I'm pretty sure they're happy with players getting confused for no reason and coming to the forums. So it should not deter them from making this possible.

Is the feature useful enough? I'd say yes, but even if it's only mildly useful, it's so easy to implement that it should still be added. Especially since it has been shown in other games that it works and is helpful.

[ssilk]

Siggyboy, first you cannot know the reasons, why they changed it, because even the devs may not know it. But there is really no need to sarcasm, that they do it for no reason.

And the devs do not fix things in random orders, they have priorities. And this is a feature, that everyone can fix himself (what could be awaited, if he uses unstable versions). So I guess the priority for this is quite low.

[siggboy]

The priority on this is awfully low, and that's fine. It's not important at all.

My sarcasm is due to the fact that the inserter colors where changed, and when 10 or more people complained about it, and we pointed out there is no good reason for it, then no reason was given. Well, a bogus "non-reason" was given (basically "we changed the color because we changed the name of the entity" seems to be the effective reason).

So I agree with you that probably the devs don't know themselves. They simply changed it because they could (that's my definition of "no good reason").

The way how combinators are wired was changed as well (daisy chaining is not the default anymore). Reason for that? Nobody knows. I don't think anybody has ever complained about the old way, in fact it was a very good way.

Don't fix it if it ain't broken...

But we're digressing, it's not the topic of this thread.

[ssilk]

But we're digressing, it's not the topic of this thread.

That was exactly, why I need to say something. Good, that you find it out yourself.

[MeduSalem]

I remember why I am not using mods while a game is still in developement.

Modders become tired out or lazy from keeping things up to date and players are not patient enough to wait for a particular mod to be updated. To request an ingame override for the version management basically proves my point.

I mean... really... the version control is there for a reason. The devs ain't got no time to deal with 100 bug reports resulting from naive people continuing to use obviously outdated mods without giving a damn about possible consequences.

It's the modders' job to handle that. If a modder doesn't like to take the responisbility for keeping his own mod in line... then he shouldn't write mods or give other modders the right to take over from there. As easy as that.


There are only 2 possible solutions anyways...

• It stays as it is... requiring the modder to update the manifest.
• Any mod can be activated, but if the factorio version doesn't match with the ones "suggested" in the mod manifest then the game displays a warning that the mod might break the game asking if you are sure to proceed. Then if something breaks you are on your own.

The later will obviously result in people still complaining in the bug section because that's how people are like.

[siggboy]

Mods make the game vastly more interesting, but obviously they come with the downside of making life a bit more difficult for the developers.

If you take full control and don't allow modding you might have less maintenance work, but you also won't have a creative community that, effectively, improves your game.

You can't have your cake, and eat it, too...

[ssilk]

Medusalem, I know what you mean. I spent hours and hours with searching mods, updating, and searching for bugs. And then finding out, that the mod ruined my game.


Well, that is one reason, why I want, that mods can be patched. By other modders (if the license allows it). That would also make the difference to other games, where that is not possible. The result would be, that we have mods, that are truly community driven.

Suggestions like this would not be needed then.

But I know, this is just a stupid dream.

[hoho]

Don't fix it if it ain't broken...

Quite often changes are the result of fixing something completely different.