Community Concerns regarding mod licenses

[anubisrwml]

Hey there everyone!

I've been watching and reading and I think it's time I voiced a suggestion that, well maybe some will not like so much but would be a very huge improvement to the modding community as a whole.

In many games where players can mod, there always seems to be the idea of a "license" and I understand why it exists - no one wants to do a lot of hard work and have it "stolen". In games like Minecraft, modders would license their mods and only give certain people permission to use their mods in mod packs. But in my humble opinion, this defeats and eliminates the whole reason for creating mods for a wonderful game like Factorio.

As a community - and by community I mean all of us who work on improving the game through mods, or by offering constructive feedback and helping the developers find bugs which they efficiently squash - we're all here to enjoy the game and help it to become even better! That being said, aren't we all on the same team?

My suggestion is this - I think that the staff of Factorio should require that all "licenses" be open to the public. There should be none of this "copyright" crap because it's a -mod- that is made for a game that's already copyrighted by the devs. What if they wanted to take the code and improve on it? Because of your copyright they can't do that, and the community suffers because you lose interest and give up on updating the mod? With this change, if someone develops a mod everyone is aware that someone may really like your idea and if they can run with it and add their own stuff and improve upon it? Excellent! Give credit to the original author and move on as this betters the community. Don't feel like working on a mod anymore? No problem! There are many skilled scripters who can bring your mod up to date for you and, if it's a good mod, I'm sure they would! That will ensure that your mod lives on even beyond your interest and continues to help the community grow.

There's no negatives from this because, as a mod developer, you do this in your spare time and without any pay. You make these mods and share them with the community because you want to improve it. If you're doing it just so people will be in awe of you, you're doing it for the wrong reasons. Lets get the monkeys off our backs and instead of having "license wars", move on and encourage the growth of the community and the mods that enhance and improve the game! Remember, none of us would be here if this game didn't exist in the first place, so lets keep it growing!

Humbly,
Anubisrwml

[kiba]

If you want to evangelize the issues to modders, be my guests, but I don't feel like arguing with people and pestering them. It's....too much use of my energy you know?


I do agree that copyright restriction on modification and distribution is harmful and force the community to constantly reinvent the wheel.

[Supercheese]

Licensing arguments are always terrible, awful things. I try to avoid the issue by using extremely open/permissive licenses such as the MIT License or GPL.

I believe it was stated that the new Mod Portal will require mods to select a license, with permissive licenses being especially recommended.

[anubisrwml]

That would go a long way - but I still feel the developers should think on limiting licenses so that restrictive licenses aren't allowed in order to ensure the betterment and continuity of the community instead of what happened with Minecraft - RedPower was a mod that was highly used and because of the limits and restrictions on licenses, modders had to come up with a new system which was never quite as good to be honest. At the very least a special rule that if a mod is abandoned by the maker for a period of more than x amount of months, then the mod is opened to the community as the whole reason and existence of these mods is to build the community.

Just my two cents. Not trying to start arguments just point out a flaw in the current modding system that will, in the end, be more destructive than helpful to the community.

[kiba]

At the very least a special rule that if a mod is abandoned by the maker for a period of more than x amount of months, then the mod is opened to the community as the whole reason and existence of these mods is to build the community.

Don't think that's actually legal.

Just my two cents. Not trying to start arguments just point out a flaw in the current modding system that will, in the end, be more destructive than helpful to the community.

Well, are you going to convince people? That is essentially starting arguments and badgering people.

[Koub]

If you want to discuss mod licensing, you should definitely have a look to this topic : viewtopic.php?f=34&t=13927
Besides, concerning the thing of either forcing modders to choose only from a subset of licenses, or to forcefully change licensing mode after some inactivity, this is plain wrong (and probably illegal).

Modders who do care about licenses and understand rarely choose restrictive licenses as non distribution, non change, ... It happens, but it's rare. And for those who don't care, devs have stated back during 0.10.x version iirc that there would be a default license for any mod not having a specific license chosen. Moreover, the mod portal arrives with 0.13, and choosing a license (either amongst the classical opensource ones, or with a customly built one) will be mandatory to publish a mod. So every mod added to the portal will have an appropriate license.

[Zeblote]

At the very least a special rule that if a mod is abandoned by the maker for a period of more than x amount of months, then the mod is opened to the community as the whole reason and existence of these mods is to build the community.

Don't think that's actually legal.

They own the mod portal so they can require all content uploaded there to be under a custom license allowing this.

Want to be an ass and prevent people from ever improving your mod? Then don't upload it. Job done!

[kiba]

Modders who do care about licenses and understand rarely choose restrictive licenses as non distribution, non change, ... It happens, but it's rare. And for those who don't care, devs have stated back during 0.10.x version iirc that there would be a default license for any mod not having a specific license chosen. Moreover, the mod portal arrives with 0.13, and choosing a license (either amongst the classical opensource ones, or with a customly built one) will be mandatory to publish a mod. So every mod added to the portal will have an appropriate license.

It doesn't feel rare, or that it already had major impact on the community at large.

Bob's mod for example doesn't have a license, and he doesn't allow other people to modify or distribute his work, except as other mods.

What happens when he decided he doesn't want to mod or update his mod anymore?

[Koub]

If somebody doesn't want to give something to me, this same thing won't become mine after some time it hasn't been used. Same thing for a mod. Every mod author has the right to do whatever he wants with his creation.It's the kind of things you earn when you create something.

[Adil]

What happens when he decided he doesn't want to mod or update his mod anymore?

Well, I'd guess he'd give a good consideration to this problem on his leave.

And I fail to see, how this one would be negative

he doesn't allow other people to modify or distribute his work, except as other mods.

Seeing how there is zero scripting in his mods, you can even fix compatibility breaks without touching the sources.

[kiba]

If somebody doesn't want to give something to me, this same thing won't become mine after some time it hasn't been used. Same thing for a mod. Every mod author has the right to do whatever he wants with his creation.It's the kind of things you earn when you create something.

That's the cultural norms implied here, sure.

And like I said, I don't think it's worth my time to change the culture or convince the developers of anything.

[anubisrwml]

I didn't mean for there to be arguments - I was only hoping that the developers would hear and think on the idea. I agree that as Factorio owns the game and the mod portal, they should think on the licensing for the mods in particular. If, for example, Bob decided to not continue his mod and not pass it on, what effect would that have on the Factorio community as a whole, and the game itself? To say there wouldn't be an impact would be wrong. And if someone didn't step up to rebuild or remake a new mod with the similar complexity, then Factorio could potentially lose fans, which affects word of mouth and other marketing metrics.

I like to think of it like this - if you open a game for mods, and said mods brings in a larger community, then the community suffers as a whole should anything happen to said mod. It's the nature of the beast. By the developers enforcing (and they can - it's their right because like it or not, the mods affect a game they've created and thus by legal standards either 1) the creator has infringed on copyright by changing the original game or 2) the developers are -allowing- said infringement which is the case here under their own licensing/agreement policies specific to those who would mod the game) it only stands to help the community grow. To say that a modder owns all rights to said creation is true - they do, but the do not own the rights to allow it's use in the game. So by requiring that all modders follow a standard license which both protects the modders and the community should said mods become abandoned, it would be their right and fully legal to do so. Again - the developers license the modders, not the other way around. The modders license their creations within the limits of the license granted by the developers.

This isn't an attack on the modders by any means. I feel that if a modder is maintaining their mod, then no one should be able to copy or infringe upon that mod or it's creations without the sole permission of the modder themselves. However, should a mod be abandoned and should said mod be a large part of the community, to let it simply go away would be to cut a chunk out of the game itself for many players, and that would negatively affect the community.

If anyone needs specific links and such to supporting legal documentation regarding licensing and mod creation, let me know. I'm a full time game developer myself so I have some knowledge and experience in this. I encourage anyone to do their own research on this, but I also encourage the developers to consider this before launching the new portal.

[ssilk]

I recommend to create an account at the new mod portal and click on create new mod. Then look at the "licence"-part.

That would spare a lot of discussion