Friday Facts #141 - Mod Portal

[MrDoomah]

It's cool that you have a website for mods but wouldn't it be easier to enable steam workshop for this? Or at least alongside with this.

The Workshop isnt really necessary since you can access the website a.k.a. Mod-Browser from within Factorio.
Just using Workshop wouldnt allow people using the direct-downloaded version to access the mods.
Using both systems would just lead to confusion within the community since some mods might get only released on one of both platforms (if that is the Workshop, apply the previous sentence).

my experience with the steam workshop is better than reinventing the wheel as they do now. In steam you just subscribe to mods and you always have the latest version. For mod creators there is a nice feedback to how well your mod is doing and what bugs users experience.

For all the hate steam is getting here, they do know how to do things right. It seems only pirating 'costumers' are worried about loggins or steam workshop scenarios. How would that come...

[Nova]

Does the workshop even offer every feature the devs want? Does the workshop allow to download mods automatically from ingame and also allows older versions of mods to be installed?

No, Steam has other disadvantages. Even the thing that you have to subscribe to mods is idiotic and makes me hate the workshop.

[silverkitty23]

Just using Workshop wouldn't allow people using the direct-downloaded version to access the mods.

my experience with the steam workshop is better than reinventing the wheel as they do now.

You're missing the key point: the Steam Workshop would require a Steam install of the game, and they sell the game through non-Steam outlets.
They aren't going to make it so only Steam users can use mods - they want everyone who buys the game to be able to use mods. That's like end of story right there. There's nothing more to be said.

[Drury]

Does the workshop even offer every feature the devs want? Does the workshop allow to download mods automatically from ingame and also allows older versions of mods to be installed?

No, Steam has other disadvantages. Even the thing that you have to subscribe to mods is idiotic and makes me hate the workshop.

Fair enough, but why is subscribing idiotic?

[Mengmoshu]

Not all mods have clean safe updates. So if you're subscribed to a mod and there's something wrong with they way it handles being updated it can hose your save. It also means that you have to deal with updates constantly instead of in groups when there are enough improved mods to justify the work of backing things up and confirming there aren't too many things that'll break.

[Kewlhotrod]

Fair enough, but why is subscribing idiotic?

when it comes to other games, for example skyrim, changing mods/mod updates throughout the playthrough can lead to unexpected bugs and bad things in general to the save. Hes taking that knowledge and bringing over from that probably; "subscribing" to mods is ingeneral imo a really bad way to manage mods, that auto download is just pure terrible.

[tehroach]

Besides, it's not exactly common for pirates to go legit.

But it is far more likely than you think!

It is well known that someone who pirates games as a child (ie while in a "poor" financial situation) is far more likely to invest substantial capital in gaming as an Adult (ie when their financial situation has improved) over someone who didn't (Given similar starting financial position).

Obviously not all people will follow the same path, but these in general will be the outliers.

[Hannu]

For all the hate steam is getting here, they do know how to do things right. It seems only pirating 'costumers' are worried about loggins or steam workshop scenarios. How would that come...

You are wrong. I have not had any pirate games in 15 years and still I hate logins and especially automated systems which take control of my computer. I want to decide when I download and install a new version of something and where in my hard drive I install it. I want to keep working copies of pervious versions before I am sure that new versions do not break anything important to me (for example mods are not conflicting). I want to know and control everything. Of course there are much worse software (looking to you, Microsoft), but I do not want to have any more annoying automated shit than necessary to keep my computer running. Automation is fun thing in Factorio but not in my computer (except my own automation scripts).

[brunzenstein]

For all the hate steam is getting here, they do know how to do things right. It seems only pirating 'costumers' are worried about loggins or steam workshop scenarios. How would that come...

You are wrong. I have not had any pirate games in 15 years and still I hate logins and especially automated systems which take control of my computer. I want to decide when I download and install a new version of something and where in my hard drive I install it. I want to keep working copies of pervious versions before I am sure that new versions do not break anything important to me (for example mods are not conflicting). I want to know and control everything. Of course there are much worse software (looking to you, Microsoft), but I do not want to have any more annoying automated shit than necessary to keep my computer running. Automation is fun thing in Factorio but not in my computer (except my own automation scripts).

Well said.
When buy via the Factorio dev. site one can decide to update or not according to his needs / wishes.
What I hate more then auto-update is that I would have to install a totally intransparent auto-run application (the Steam loader and Steam app I have absolutely no control over what there doing with my login or possible sales to third parties) in order to run a program Steam I bought and Steam is only a middle men sales outlet for.

[CodAv]

And whats the potato mod?

Probably adds 9gag support.

[Ojelle]

And whats the potato mod?

Probably adds 9gag support.

That would be devestating for productivity xD
One of em is enough to criple it, let alone both.

[Nova]

@CodAv:

In my opinion, Factorio has a great way of doing things even big AAA companies don't get right. We have an automatic updater, but: it doesn't force us to update, it doesn't force us to check if there is an update (you can just not login and only manually update) and it's pretty easy to use.

And you can play the game fully without an account. That's not really nice for the devs, but if someday Wube is not anymore, you can still play the game. The only things missing would be the automatic updater and a convinient way to download mods and play multiplayer - but both would still be possible.

[RobertTerwilliger]

Wow, train looks really somewhat "handmade" : )
However it looks probably too fragile for hostile planet - I'd add armor plates to keep precious cargo safe ; )

image from fff

Another thing is this "Factorio mods" logo text looks not very good (at my taste). I'd suggest make it:
1. more Factorio logo style
2. use only 1 gear in "Factorio" word
3. move "mods" word (mabe even diagonally or vertically), so gear in "mods" word is connected to one if "Factorio" word - to represent these two are parts of one machanism : ) "M" in "mods" word can also have a slot for "i" from "Facrotio" word)

[ssilk]

My two cents about mod portal
Not sorted, just random order.

Instead of 5-star-rating?!
5-star-rating was invented for hotels and the rating is an objective, reproducibly test. It works for hotels, cause not everybody can give stars.

With this in sense, what are those objective measurements for a mod? Quite difficult!

My suggestions:

Stability: Is this mod stable with the current version?
"Does work with v0.12.35? YES/NO". A question as simple as possible.
That is then also some kind of bug reporting and quite useful for the author. Very interesting graphics can be made out of that: Does the stability increase or decrease...
Comments could be added later.

Compatibility: What other mods are useful in combination with this mod? And what not?
"Does this mod run with mod XY? YES/NO". Not so simple, you need the combination of a mod and the answer.
I think this question is quite useful, cause it brings in a compatibility aspect of a mod to other mods. Also quite useful for authors.

Similarity: What other mods are similar to this?
"Mod XY is similar to this". Just yes, this is similar.
This question is very useful, if a mod is not longer compatible, or the mod is not stable.

More options: I think the idea of the above is clear now...

How much does this mod change the game / can this mod be removed without loosing the whole game?
It's a bit better explained in this topic viewtopic.php?f=89&t=13332#p89717 and following...
I think this is a very useful categorization, cause it is very objective.
There are currently this categories:
- Non game-changing
- Helper Mods
- New Items, Entities, Extensions
- Gameplay / Vanilla+

A model to come from a short and unstable idea to a stable mod
Currently I'm not looking, if a mod in the Work-In-Progress / Pre-Alpha Mods boards have correct mod-headers or if there are questionable content.
I think it is useful: Someone creates a mod, works the whole night and now wants to finish his work. He doesn't want to think a lot about license. Or so. Just put mod online and wait for reactions.
But with the time this changes. With each version the mod will get more stable. And so also more information can be validated.
All I want to point to is, that there is an idea for the stability of a mod, that can be very useful.

Absorbing, Carrying over, Patching...
There are mods, that are not longer compatible, not running with other mods, orphaned, etc.
I would like to enable support for such cases, cause handling this with the forum like now is really a mess.
Which means in general, that everybody (where the license allows it) can make a patch. And a patch from the patch, etc.

Modpacks
The idea about a modpack is, that a modpack is just a mod, that requires other mods. And - while doing that - it includes also the other mods.

Repositories
That idea is, that there could be other sources for mods, than mods.factorio.com. Works similar with linux distributions.

[Zabanov]

Not to sound like an ingrateful prick (probably will still sound like one) but will there be an option to keep using the old choo choo model? They both look great, I just got really attached to the current choo choo.

[doc]

Not to sound like an ingrateful prick (probably will still sound like one) but will there be an option to keep using the old choo choo model? They both look great, I just got really attached to the current choo choo.

I'm sure someone will make a mod for this in no time...

[Zeblote]

Not to sound like an ingrateful prick (probably will still sound like one) but will there be an option to keep using the old choo choo model? They both look great, I just got really attached to the current choo choo.

I'm sure someone will make a mod for this in no time...

The old graphics would be incompatible as they don't have seperate wheels, don't stretch properly on curves, etc...

[winkieman]

Damn you people for telling me about Slither! been there for 2 days!

[RobertTerwilliger]

long long post

My two cents about mod portal
Not sorted, just random order.

Instead of 5-star-rating?!
5-star-rating was invented for hotels and the rating is an objective, reproducibly test. It works for hotels, cause not everybody can give stars.

With this in sense, what are those objective measurements for a mod? Quite difficult!

My suggestions:

Stability: Is this mod stable with the current version?
"Does work with v0.12.35? YES/NO". A question as simple as possible.
That is then also some kind of bug reporting and quite useful for the author. Very interesting graphics can be made out of that: Does the stability increase or decrease...
Comments could be added later.

Compatibility: What other mods are useful in combination with this mod? And what not?
"Does this mod run with mod XY? YES/NO". Not so simple, you need the combination of a mod and the answer.
I think this question is quite useful, cause it brings in a compatibility aspect of a mod to other mods. Also quite useful for authors.

Similarity: What other mods are similar to this?
"Mod XY is similar to this". Just yes, this is similar.
This question is very useful, if a mod is not longer compatible, or the mod is not stable.

More options: I think the idea of the above is clear now...

How much does this mod change the game / can this mod be removed without loosing the whole game?
It's a bit better explained in this topic viewtopic.php?f=89&t=13332#p89717 and following...
I think this is a very useful categorization, cause it is very objective.
There are currently this categories:
- Non game-changing
- Helper Mods
- New Items, Entities, Extensions
- Gameplay / Vanilla+

A model to come from a short and unstable idea to a stable mod
Currently I'm not looking, if a mod in the Work-In-Progress / Pre-Alpha Mods boards have correct mod-headers or if there are questionable content.
I think it is useful: Someone creates a mod, works the whole night and now wants to finish his work. He doesn't want to think a lot about license. Or so. Just put mod online and wait for reactions.
But with the time this changes. With each version the mod will get more stable. And so also more information can be validated.
All I want to point to is, that there is an idea for the stability of a mod, that can be very useful.

Absorbing, Carrying over, Patching...
There are mods, that are not longer compatible, not running with other mods, orphaned, etc.
I would like to enable support for such cases, cause handling this with the forum like now is really a mess.
Which means in general, that everybody (where the license allows it) can make a patch. And a patch from the patch, etc.

Modpacks
The idea about a modpack is, that a modpack is just a mod, that requires other mods. And - while doing that - it includes also the other mods.

Repositories
That idea is, that there could be other sources for mods, than mods.factorio.com. Works similar with linux distributions.

This! Even being vanilla player, I'm signing every single word written - so reasonable point is : )

[Erendir]

About Lua hacking:
just as an idea: try Lua mailing list.