Friday Facts #137 - The release scarecrow

[siggboy]

If the new inserter behaviour can be modded back to the old behaviour I'm all for it.

[sekanz]

I'm all for the new changes. I'm excited to start over on a new map with new logistics challenges.

[ketil]

Are they going to remove the regular stack bonus between containers for regular inserters? I read the friday facts as if "inserter stack size bonus" was a new and separate belt-to-belt/belt-to-container bonus unrelated to the old stack bonus. Confused now

EDIT; Well, the new stack bonus replacing the old bonus makes more sense now that I reread it. I am not happy about it, but I can live with it.

[roman566]

Truth to be told, I am extremely unhappy about the change. I have a nice drone based furnace setup that allows a single furnace to smelt iron plates, coper plates and steel .It requires inserters to put exactly 5 units of iron plates into furnace to create steel. Not 4, not 6 and definitely not 12. Exactly 5. Thanks to that change I will have to scrap it and build another one for steel only, which is bad, silly and pointless in my opinion. The game is all about automation and using circuit network but with the nerf of them my smelting automation will be reduced by 1/3. That's not an improvement.

Now, to keep people from claiming that I only complain I will present a very, very simple solution - keep the normal inserters and their improvement as they are and add new series of technologies that improve only the new inserters. It will keep people like me, who already have good setups with existing inserters, from having to completely rebuild everything from scratch. Please, please do that.

[NoriSilverrage]

Big yes to the rapid inserter (though I think bulk or stack would be more descriptive name). The train visual change looks amazing too.

However, I echo what others have said about completely removing the stack size. In some cases it wouldn't be a big deal, but in others it would stifle creativity and hurt the types of builds that are possible.
Please consider splitting this out.

[tyroney]

Please name them Bulk Inserter or Stack Inserter or Shovel Inserter or almost anything more descriptive and less confusing.

[Koub]

Why not let the inserter stack bonus, but for each 1 bonus on regular inserters, give a +3 to the rapid inserter ?
Like that previous inserters keep their usages, and you can use the rapid one where extreme throughput is needed.

Maximum flexibility, a lot of gameplay value.

[Malachite]

My two cents: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. also, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

In all seriousness: i love that inserter stack bonus, it helps with my coal delivery through my boilers.
If the change is modable, i'll be the first one to download "restore my inserter stack bonus", otherwise, give me some chance to revert it.

Please?

[Koub]

My two cents: NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO. also, NOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.

In all seriousness: i love that inserter stack bonus, it helps with my coal delivery through my boilers.
If the change is modable, i'll be the first one to download "restore my inserter stack bonus", otherwise, give me some chance to revert it.

Please?

My superior brain abilities have found a solution for your problem : Replace your regular inserters by "rapid" inserters (or whatever final name). You're done, and so much done that they can feed your boilers with up to 12 at a time. You're welcome .

[ikiris]

Personally I don't understand how this helps anything, and makes things objectively worse than they were, for exactly what gain?


I thought the addition of the loaders was fine. This is a terrible idea and request that existing functionality be released as a mod and the same for the loaders that existed for a short time.

[nightingale]

Unless something has changed (quite possible), a previous FF mentioned that all inserters would becoming smart inserters - so I personally would expect the "rapid" inserters (terrible name) to have smart-ness.

As to losing stack size bonus for regular inserts? Depends where the rapid ones sit in the tech tree. As to losing it in long inserters? Terrible, but I guess I'll just grab it from one of the many mods that will add it in. Along with smart-rapid-long-in-near-out or whatever other combinations there are in things like Bob's Mods.

[dee-]

I'm not exactly sure what to think of the proposed changes and the new inserter.

The "rapid inserter" really seems OP to me. One inserter to solve all issues (minus smart): creates compressed belts, insane-insane-insane throughput from chest to belt and others. It feels like a cheat-mod

Nerfing the other inserters is okay for me. Actually it would be okay for me if the inserter stack bonus would be removed completely from the game. Maybe I just prefer a "basic" game where I have to be creative to create a large throughput and not use one uber-inserter to solve all my demands.

[TrojanEnder]

I really like what some people are saying about having two separate tech trees even if it means the old one is not in vanilla. Give it to us separately so we can mod it back in like many have said. Although I'd prefer to have both in vanilla.

Changing "rapid" to something much more different would help with the simplification/confusion issue. After all this isn't really a rapid inserter, it's a new weird thing. Drawing attention to the difference would really help the confusion factor much like companion cube.

for example:

• shovel inserter
  the shoveler
  stacker machine
  multi insterter
  crazy ridiculous inserter bot
  Dave

I know you devs could come up with something much more awesome. Maybe not as awesome as Dave though. Anyway Love everything you guys are doing! Really looking forward to .13!

[bobingabout]

Lots of nice goodies on show there.

Still miss the loader though.

[Brambor]

Awesome! The heavy now called rapid inserters will be very useful with the up to 11 rapid inserter stack size bonus.
Unfornatelly that will break EC production using basic inserters between wires and EC assemblers.

[RobertTerwilliger]

limit the inserter stack size bonus to the rapid inserter only

we will increase the maximum rapid inserter capacity (instead of inserter stack size bonus) from 4 to 11

I don't get it - R.Inserters will have separate upgrade, or existing upgrade will be increased, but renamed and limted to R.Inserters?

If all other inserters will loose stack size bonus - then R.Inserter is OUGHT to have "smart" interface, or some train setups will become completely impossible (i.e. multiple item types in one wagon). This is especially important considering in one of previous FFFs we heard about increasing wagon invenroty size (thus more small&medium factories will use 1 wagon instead of 2, as they usually do now).

So, I'm okay if rapid inserter will perform "smart" actions, even if we'll loose long-handed stack size (new opportunity to fry brains redesigning few ye olde setups), BUT if R.Inserter will be "blind" grabber - it'll be probably the last nail in belts' and trains' coffin simultaneously.

[KatherineOfSky]

I agree with others -- the name should definitely be changed. "Rapid" is too close to "fast", especially for new players, and general communication slip ups.

I too like the idea of having separate tech trees. Losing the stack bonus on the standard inserters is a massive change..... especially if it also applies to Smart Inserters, (which others have already mentioned). Allowing small stack sizes on non-rapid inserters, and a large stack on Rapids would be a better option, IMHO.

Devs, can you let us know what your plans are for stack bonus & the Smart Inserter? (Or having a Smart version of the Rapid?)

[OvermindDL1]

Sooo, on the image that was posted by a dev earlier of the rapid inserters unloading a train (https://gfycat.com/OddTotalDegu), has anyone else noticed the new buttons in the lower-right?

But yes, I like the changes, though 'Rapid' should probably be another name, like 'Bulk' or so, and we need a long variant.

Would be nice to have a new type of inserter as someone has mentioned earlier, have it be a crane, it moves vast amounts of items at once between containers. Maybe have something like tower that you build, connect floating 'rails' between them with a crane that moves along them to move things between chests (a mini-logistics network for just those set of air-rails-along-towers perhaps?).

EDIT: Hmm, pneumatic tubes might be nice too, run them 'over' things between logistics chests, has a max through-put though.

[Adil]

I really like what some people are saying about having two separate tech trees even if it means the old one is not in vanilla. Give it to us separately so we can mod it back in like many have said. Although I'd prefer to have both in vanilla.

Changing "rapid" to something much more different would help with the simplification/confusion issue. After all this isn't really a rapid inserter, it's a new weird thing. Drawing attention to the difference would really help the confusion factor much like companion cube.

for example:

• shovel inserter
  the shoveler
  stacker machine
  multi insterter
  crazy ridiculous inserter bot
  Dave

I know you devs could come up with something much more awesome. Maybe not as awesome as Dave though. Anyway Love everything you guys are doing! Really looking forward to .13!

• Batch grab inserter
  Batch inserter

[bumpinthenight]

RE: Train station visualizations

This is beautiful, a long-standing nag of mine has been needing to drag a train & cars out to every new outpost just to make sure I line up the inserters properly. Thank you for this one!