Refactorio 0.0.1

[Sean Mirrsen]

Huh, that's interesting. I actually have a lot of the same ideas as this mod's creator, for my own "Factorio Gaiden" mod-in-the-works.

The burner generator is actually borrowed from KS's power mods. If you want to use that without losing the burner inserter, you can grab KS Power. Commenting out a few things in the files, you can probably eliminate the mid/late game power options, too, if you choose.

I agree that the burner fills only a niche role, and almost no role in the mid/early game when you're upgrading your economy to electricity-based, and even less in the early game here with burner generators present. However, that niche is an overwhelmingly important niche. I agree with you it's useful, but I don't want its usefulness understressed either, because I like a lot of what the author's going for here, and would like to see this mod develop. Nothing, except nothing, can automate a recovery from a full energy collapse except burner inserters.

I could probably make a case for a few burner mines feeding directly into boilers, or a separate disconnected power grid filled with accumulators, or a similar tiny power grid between an electric drill, an accumulator, and a steam powerplant on a coal patch.
With burner generators, all you need is a discrete power grid with only the generator and the row of inserters on it (being able to manually connect power lines is a great feature for this) - the generator will power the inserters, as well as the inserter feeding it fuel, up until the power outage is so bad that there is a fuel-out and there is no fuel. In this case, restarting the grid is as easy as feeding the burner with fuel - connected inserters will immediately start working. In the case of burner inserters, which will to some extent restart the process by themselves, they still can and do sometimes run out of fuel, especially if you forget that they aren't fast enough to grab an item riding past them on a red conveyor belt, and in such cases you have to get to them and individually give them fuel.

But yeah, burner inserters do have a role, a small but rather important one. However, I look at it through the prism of common sense. A burner inserter is not a more primitive version of the regular inserter - it works only a little slower, has the same reach, and even has some smart elements, being able to tell when it is low on fuel and feed itself with any available source, whereas an inserter is just a dumb "take here, put here" robot arm with some programmable functions. For basically a normal inserter with an integrated heat engine, the burner inserter takes too little work and materials to create in the base game, and should really not be needed from the get-go because small amounts of electric power should be readily available to use normal inserters. You'll only really need them once you have an infrastructure you have to have backup power sources for - by that time they will have already been researched.

[Lurkily]

Factorio is a bout logistics and automation. If I wanted to manually load coal into generators, there are already a hundred and six point two games that do that, and do that better. Removing an automation tool that does something nothing else can automate, in Factorio, is like taking the noodles out of chicken noodle soup. Recovery from total loss is something I always build in, because I always manage to mis-configure belts or rails or SOMETHING, to interrupt my fuel supply. This way I can fix the problem and go back to setting up factories, with some confidence that power will be back up in a jiffy. (What I need is a circuit alarm that will generate alarms when my backup power is in use.)

On the suject of backups . . .this is off-topic, so I'll spoiler-tag it.

I don't think burner generators are really an improvement over a chest of coal in avoiding shortages. If you're not using it to recover from a total fuel outage, then you don't need to worry about power shortages in unloading the chest. Also, burner generators do not stop burning when you have power in your grid - they will consume coal constantly (in my experience) until you stop feeding them coal, so some smart elements are needed.

I use a few approaches to recovery backups. I Like to use a long yellow belt that loops - before fuel reachest burner inserters for the generators, fast inserters move it from the outgoing side of the loop to the return side of the loop. Thus when power drops, fuel reaches burner generators, and when the backups start coming up, fast inserters can kick in to help load them faster.

There's another solution, similar to this, where the generator (burner or a single boiler and steam, whatever) is fed by the same mechanism, but the generator only powers pumps that drive pre-heated water to steam engines.

There are circuit solutions, of of which can pre-empt an energy shortage by using accumulators feeding two networks, but none of which can automate recovery after you correct delivery problems in your factory as they almost exclusively use smart inserters.

[sumdawgy]

I could probably make a case for a few burner mines feeding directly into boilers, or a separate disconnected power grid filled with accumulators, or a similar tiny power grid between an electric drill, an accumulator, and a steam powerplant on a coal patch.
With burner generators, all you need is a discrete power grid with only the generator and the row of inserters on it (being able to manually connect power lines is a great feature for this) - the generator will power the inserters, as well as the inserter feeding it fuel, up until the power outage is so bad that there is a fuel-out and there is no fuel. In this case, restarting the grid is as easy as feeding the burner with fuel - connected inserters will immediately start working. In the case of burner inserters, which will to some extent restart the process by themselves, they still can and do sometimes run out of fuel, especially if you forget that they aren't fast enough to grab an item riding past them on a red conveyor belt, and in such cases you have to get to them and individually give them fuel.

But yeah, burner inserters do have a role, a small but rather important one. However, I look at it through the prism of common sense. A burner inserter is not a more primitive version of the regular inserter - it works only a little slower, has the same reach, and even has some smart elements, being able to tell when it is low on fuel and feed itself with any available source, whereas an inserter is just a dumb "take here, put here" robot arm with some programmable functions. For basically a normal inserter with an integrated heat engine, the burner inserter takes too little work and materials to create in the base game, and should really not be needed from the get-go because small amounts of electric power should be readily available to use normal inserters. You'll only really need them once you have an infrastructure you have to have backup power sources for - by that time they will have already been researched.

Hear Hear!!
Well said. the outrage expressed by some of posters....really?
THIS IS FACTORIO! (think sparta)
Overcome and adapt. I always keep most of my inserters for my boilers on thier own network. The fuel for this buffered in it's own chest that is supplied by the fuel for the rest. inserters pull so little poer that even if you DO run dry the separate power system just sits idle and fueled waiting for the fuel to arrive to thhe rest of the system. THAT SELF POWERED GEN...so perfect for the setup.

To the complainers.....May I suggest you rethink your power station ?

[sumdawgy]

Factorio is a bout logistics and automation. If I wanted to manually load coal into generators, there are already a hundred and six point two games that do that, and do that better. Removing an automation tool that does something nothing else can automate, in Factorio, is like taking the noodles out of chicken noodle soup. Recovery from total loss is something I always build in, because I always manage to mis-configure belts or rails or SOMETHING, to interrupt my fuel supply. This way I can fix the problem and go back to setting up factories, with some confidence that power will be back up in a jiffy. (What I need is a circuit alarm that will generate alarms when my backup power is in use.)

On the suject of backups . . .this is off-topic, so I'll spoiler-tag it.

Hmm.. i didn't see your post until after I responded in my earlier one.
Maybe i should've "spoilered"....part of my post but....

The info was "spoiler i agree... But I dunno.. given the complaints ...was that really off-topic?