Detrivializing research?

[Sean Mirrsen]

I'm not sure where to post such a question, but I had a few ideas I'd like to try and roll up into a mod, and I don't even know where to start looking for whether some of the things I thought of are even possible in a mod.

One of such things is detrivializing research - meaning, getting rid of "science packs" and having several grades of lab (like assemblers) that have to be fed with various quantities of different materials in order to do research. The specific questions are:

- Is it possible to mod in "grades" of lab, rather than one building that is upgraded through tech, that replace the original lab completely but still retain the research functionality? (lesser grade labs just can't be loaded with enough different items and simply won't work on higher-tier research projects)

- Is it possible to have research projects require arbitrary sets of items instead of specific research items? (I noticed science packs having a "healthbar" that I don't remember seeing on anything else)

I know doing so would fundamentally change the research process, make it more difficult to fully automate, and remove the "milestone" effect that automating red, green, and blue science packs provides, but I feel like I dislike the concept of science packs more than I appreciate the game-flow benefits.

[orzelek]

I recommend looking at Science Tweaker mod and bob's mod set. both of them modify research and can do what you are asking for.
Might not be the eaxct thing but you can see that custom reseearch components and various lab types are possible and how they are done.

[seronis]

Detrivializing research is a hard topic because the entire factory you build (90% of it) is for your research. Think of it this way: what items in the game do you need to survive and progress? My list comes to:

1. walls
2. turrets
3. ammo / power for turrets
4. rocket to achieve victory

So theoretically you only need a supply chain big enough to fulfill those things. But thats not what happens because of the material costs of science packs. Your entire factory ends up being dedicated to the production of the ingredients to make science packs to unlock the tech tree and you use the unlocked items for higher tier versions of earlier things to speed up the rate of making the ingredients for science packs.

Well then you got the rockets components too (very small resources needed compared to all the 1000s upon 1000s of science packs)

So if you trivialize research make sure the replacement has enough depth that the game doesnt feel empty

[Sean Mirrsen]

So if you trivialize research make sure the replacement has enough depth that the game doesnt feel empty

My aim would be to detrivialize research, meaning make it less trivial. Even with blue science packs, you don't exactly have too many requirements, and compared to what you're researching the resource cost seems inadequate. Steel is a basic material from early-mid game. Smart inserters can be made in a straightforward production line taking only two basic resources. Advanced circuits are slow to make, but the only non-basic component is plastic. Batteries are the most difficult, logistically, due to sulfuric acid. Automating those four is a midgame task at best - once you've done it the rest of the game is spent hunting down aliens for artifacts, and clicking on a new research project every time it pops up.

How would you like, for instance, for the entire line of research related to robotics, to have to supply the laboratories with flying drone frames? Or whole construction or logistic robots? And processor boards? And then when you research laser turret upgrades, you need to supply the labs with laser turrets.

That's the kind of thing I'd like to see. Force the player to choose between keeping his research on the same track, or having to switch gears on his research complex in order to supply the labs with a new set of items. It keeps the research hands-on, and maybe invites an opportunity for more uses of the circuit network, as well as giving new uses to sometimes under-used items. Like having to manufacture SMGs in order to upgrade bullet damage, and suits of armor to get upgrades to that.

I recommend looking at Science Tweaker mod and bob's mod set. both of them modify research and can do what you are asking for.
Might not be the eaxct thing but you can see that custom reseearch components and various lab types are possible and how they are done.

And thank you, I shall look into that.

[seronis]

Nice clarifictions. If you ever get something done I'll definitely try it out for a game or three.