Teleporting (Ringworld-Teleporters)

[ssilk]

The main reason for a teleporter is to cut down on player travel times, right? You can do the same thing with a remote control droid:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23273&p=146008

A remote droid allows a lot more pivot points for balance than a teleporter ever could.

That is not the same. It has not the players inventory. Sounds funny, but is a big difference!

But in general that solves the same issue, yes.

I think there is a need in the game to be able to move around a large map quickly, for me sitting in a train whilst it slowly meanders across the map, is just plain boring.

Right! Limiting the ideas to teleporting is stupid!!

I think when I would be forced to make a generalizing topic out of it, something like "The need for really, really fast transport".
I have nothing against someone being faster with writing that; I doubt to have that time the next week.

I link some other idea in this in again: viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13200 Discussing the (missing?) 4th type of transport!

[Adil]

Off topic - the teleport is a silly concept which spits on the nature laws that define the engineering which inspired the game

the "teleport" is a silly concept which spits on the nature laws that define the engineering which inspired the game. You see everything in game is designed in the quasi-modern style, surely, robotic manipulators here take a much less gears and processors and diesel locomotive eats not as much coal as they would in reality but they follow Newton's testaments and principles of modern world functioning.

Believe it or not this isn't the case. They managed quantum teleportation 4 years ago.http://www.nature.com/nature/journal/v4 ... 72_F1.html However that was about as close to true teleportation (in a Star Trek sense)As a neanderthals rock hammer is to a jack hammer.. It's about something called spooky action at a distance. Which also has potential use for instantaneous communication over light year distances, subspace communication anyone? 100 years, 1000 years, 100,000 years from now? Who knows, the building blocks have already been laid.

Thats not quite off topic

Believe it or not, quantum teleportation has as much relevance to the true teleportation as dentist's chair to Bohemian rhapsody and has not any potential of superluminal transition of anything for the quantum state which is "teleported" during such event is a state related to some particle (photon most commonly) which is subject to the limitations. All the #adjective#-space concept seem to stem stems from another physical theory, namely Einstein's General Relatyvity theory, which deals with the state of the space-time and gravitation, and the popularized particular solutions to that are well applicable to isolated bodies in outer space, a man is not likely to get around the planet surface using Albuquerque space wrapping without cracking the said planet in pieces.

[bobucles]

That is not the same. It has not the players inventory. Sounds funny, but is a big difference!

People tend to swap out their inventory depending on the task at hand anyway. You don't need 500 defender capsules to build some solar fields, for example.

All in all the player isn't limited by their inventory, but rather by the mortal burdens of travel time. It is no problem to train over a pile of useful goods from home base anyway.

[ssilk]

That is not the same. It has not the players inventory. Sounds funny, but is a big difference!

People tend to swap out their inventory depending on the task at hand anyway. You don't need 500 defender capsules to build some solar fields, for example.

Your opinion. I nearly never build solar fields like so, it's too ineffective.

My argument is this: If the teleporter is used within multiplayer (which I think is a cool idea, when two players are far away at the beginning), they can exchange most important/heavy needed items like so.
The same with other things: You build a new outpost and it becomes night and you forgot your toothbrush. No problem, because all you need to do is to jump into the teleporter, do some steps back to your home-base and pick it up and walk back.

All in all the player isn't limited by their inventory, but rather by the mortal burdens of travel time. It is no problem to train over a pile of useful goods from home base anyway.

Well, besides, that a train can take minutes to bring them, you're right. And that's in my opinion the problem! I don't want to wait. I don't want to program me a train. I have worked hard, to have a factory, that can produce every item I need within seconds. But it is now in the base, which is 1000 tiles away. No matter which method I currently use, I need to stop my current task and go back or I need to stop and program me a train.

That is in the beginning sometimes interesting, but latest after the 10th repetition this is a showstopper.

That's the reason for this suggestion and all arguments, that come with "Oh, this is not realistic" or "Too powerful" (and some more I don't want to repeat now) didn't provide a better solution.

And the more I think about it, the more I think we need some options for really fast transport, not only teleporting.

In my vision the type of the first chosen super-speed-transport-extension is a player decision (like the decision to go into electric furnace).
Teleporter is one method, but there are some (I think to 2 or 3) more options. Like transport of single chests or stacks via small rockets. Transport via pneumatic post. Transport via airplane. They are all mentioned in the linked thread above. ( viewtopic.php?f=5&t=13200 Discussing the (missing?) 4th type of transport! )

And the players decision is then, what to research first. Or go into a total other direction, cause everything is nearby.

[Adil]

I don't want to wait. I don't want to program me a train. I have worked hard, to have a factory, that can produce every item I need within seconds. But it is now in the base, which is 1000 tiles away. No matter which method I currently use, I need to stop my current task and go back or I need to stop and program me a train.

I don't get it:
At the beginning there's vanilla where everything needed is just outside of base and you can hop around in a matter of seconds by foot.
Later on RSO appears which is doing exactly enlargement of distances, so you can't hop around in a matter of seconds on foot.
People start playing RSO.
And now we have people, who complain that they can't hop around in a matter of seconds on foot with RSO.

I'd like to emphasis on this:

I have worked hard, to have a factory, that can produce every item I need within seconds. But it is now in the base, which is 1000 tiles away.

Yes, that's quite the Factorio. You may have mines producing billions of iron, but it won't magically transfer to a number on your top bar, from which it can be subtracted whenever you want a tank, the iron must be transported in various proportions to various areas producing tank parts, before you will get one.
You may have your mighty factory producing everything in seconds and you may be all-powerful in radius of 500 tiles from it, but to get this everything 1000 tiles away, you have to solve the new task of shipping it.

Surely, lategame should not be monotonous sitting in trains, but while the least laborious turning it into braindead hybrid of sandbox god mode and reiteration of the earlier gameplay is just as tasteless.
The alternatives listed and linked above all provide gameplay in at least to some extent different than standard early/vanilla game, and the agreement that the game needs better transportation like those, doesn't mean that teleportation should make appearance.

[The Phoenixian]

The main reason for a teleporter is to cut down on player travel times, right? You can do the same thing with a remote control droid:
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=23273&p=146008

A remote droid allows a lot more pivot points for balance than a teleporter ever could.

You know, I like this form of instant movement: It only needs one thing to make it complete:

The ability to order the drone to move to a location while you do other work.

That way if your setting up a solar field or distant mine, you can load up the drone with the needed materials ahead of time and ship it out, then work on something else while you wait for it to arrive and lastly switch to the drone once it's in position and set up the base, before finally ordering it back to base (or the next site) and then switching back to yourself... or to another drone that's gotten into position while you've been working with the first.

[bobucles]

At that point you're talking about a whole new kind of logistic problem. With the concept of drones, you now have to supply outposts with useful player materials. More puzzles is definitely good.

[WhatheWorld]

how do you feel about a personal teleporter. such as a teleporter that would be inside your power armor and you would have to place beacons on the map to where you want to teleport and there would be a menu in the top to select a location when ever you want to teleport there. I have almost completely made such a mod for my personal use and if it seems useful and others would like to use it I would post it for everyones uses.

[Quazar]

I do support adding personal teleportation to Factorio and feel strongly that while it would change the game, it would not break it but only make it better.

In general I believe game mechanics that make the player wait are not fun. As others have said, conquering distance with rail is enjoyable but making the same long trip multiple times is not. Just now I’m building a second low-pollution base far from my research home and not relishing the idea of slow travel from one to the other.

Currently I think our choices are: vanilla, Simple Teleporters, faster travel options like provided by Aircraft, and that’s it?

WhatheWorld I think your idea would be a great addition to the list!

[Koub]

I'm personnally not fond of teleportation. At least not in vanilla. You can do whatever pleases you in a mod, even a "I win" button if you want to.
However, I think there could/should be a way to do things remotely when you arrive at a high tech level (neural interface, remote robot control, with satellites to transmit the signal, things like that).
It would fill the need of "hey forgot to do something 100 chunks away and I don't want to spend 10 minutes on my train to go there and come back to my main base.

You'd not have the kind of cheaty way to transport your whole inventory all around, but you'd be able to have as many "characters" as you'd like, controlling the one you need at that moment, with its own inventory.

[Khaylain]

@Koub that would be awesome if you had a possibility for neural networking, but a limited teleportation possibility would be great for a large world/factory.

There could be a limit of the first row of items in your inventory that you could bring with you through a teleporter, and if you had more it wouldn't allow you through. Or an excessive amount of research and infrastructure to make it possible. For example you'd need to send up 5 "teleportation triangulation satellites" or "GPS satellite" (Yeah, it's not that creative) that would allow you to set up teleportation stations. And the teleportation stations should need an extreme amount of resources to make one teleportation station, and you'd need at least two to make it possible to teleport. That would solve the problem with it seeming too OP, as it wouldn't be useful for short distances.

I got the idea that teleportation stations would need you to stand in them for a certain amount of time to allow it to charge up, based upon the distance to the target. That would also discourage it's use unless really necessary. Starting at 30 seconds or more even if you're right next to the target. The numbers would be up for debate, but the ideas are the important thing. The teleportation stations should also need excessive amounts of power, so that the time needed for teleportation would be increased if there weren't enough power per second.

Still, this is a difficult idea to get to a good state for implementation. I hope we manage to help each other towards a more reasonable solution/idea.

[Quazar]

@Khayain I agree, requiring significant resources to implement the pads answers any question about OP. Adding delay into the system, that doesn't seem as fun, the point is to get from A to B quickly.

This idea, wow...

You can do whatever pleases you in a mod, even a "I win" button if you want to.

Worthy of it's own thread, what's the win condition? Sounds like a great mod

[Adil]

This is factorio requiring significant resources to implement answers nothing.
It just "makes the player wait". Just as high tier research and requirement of 5 rocket launches. Which simply makes you wait dully first and then forget about that it is complex tech after.
And what's the problem with this staying mod? You've mentioned the Simple Teleport before as if it is bad that it's mod and there's no vanilla simple teleporter?

[Quazar]

Surely having to "wait" and build up the resources required to create a new (transportation network; technical advancement; doohickey) is different from waiting for a buffer to fill, and entirely different than the topic here, getting from A to B.

I wanted to be sure and respond to the question... someone early in the conversation said "you don't have to use it" is unacceptable, and wanted to frame the discussion in what would be good for the game, as if teleportation wasn't a mod but instead such a good idea the devs would add it. Of course it would be mod and an alternative to SImple, which IMHO is great fun... Ringworld would mostly just be a different way to link the portals together?

[dead8eye]

hi

teleporting are a good way. the problem what i only see is, that nobody builds or use vehicles how the car, tank or train.

if teleporting will be implement into the game, so it is endgame stuff i think. but before we get teleport, what is with aircraft or tunnelsystems?
how i write, teleporting is rly endgame stuff and needs a special research - way to get it.

this is what i can say to this great idea!

lg,
dead8eye

[bobucles]

I think that rolling and belting and flying your items around the map is far more satisfying than poofing them from place to place. While teleportation is a flashy tech it just doesn't get to show the gritty steampunk fun of a fully functional base.

[Khaylain]

@Dead8eye I think that might be a great idea to make teleporters unnecessary. Having aircraft that move even faster than trains for player transport would probably fill the same niche people asking for teleporters want.

@Quazar The devs might still add, or think about adding, teleportation. We simply don't know, and the whole reason we're discussing this here is to try to refine ideas to where the devs can take a look and see the ideas almost fully formed, so they don't need to spend as much time getting the rough edges off an idea. That way they can use the ideas that have been discussed by the forum members and do the final refining and tweaking. What is your suggestion for teleporters?

@Adil Making you wait dully at first and then forget about the complexities of making stuff is the whole idea behind factorio... You're automating either everything, or almost everything. When it's automated you don't think about it much at all, so why should this be different?

_______________

I still believe that teleporters should mostly be for player transport, so that you can't belt things through a teleporter. Making you think about different systems for item transportation and player transportation would add to the game in my opinion.

[Adil]

@Adil Making you wait dully at first and then forget about the complexities of making stuff is the whole idea behind factorio... You're automating either everything, or almost everything. When it's automated you don't think about it much at all, so why should this be different?

Nope. You automate production of stuff but then you still tend to your little factory so it has everything it needs and no big bad biter hurts it. And most of the time it is about running costs and running benefits rather than static pay and forget.
Thus simply putting the teleport atop of the shelf in no way making it balanced or well fit to the game. If anything, it provides another pace break similar to solars, and may induce urges to "rush the teleportation" messing up the gameplay progression.

[dead8eye]

hi!

yes i think too that more vehicle types be better than 1 own teleport.

it is a difficult question, so i hope we all find a good option for it

lg,
dead8eye