Balancing Steel Barrels in Oil Barreling stations

[ilostmahbucket]

Morning everyone,

Does anyone have any suggestions/images of an optimized train station for 1. loading stations and 2. unloading stations?

My problem is my train keeps getting too full of empty barrels. I'll try to balance it, and then a loading station will run out of barrels. I wish cargo trains could act like logistic chests and only take so much of one type of item!

Currently I have a two cargo train traveling on single tracks, but since it goes in 2 different directions, it's rotating as it goes to all the stops. Anyway this means both full and empty barrels are getting loaded in the cargo holds and it's all out of balance. I'm quite late game so it's completely messing up my already strictly limited oil production.




At this rate I'm going to send roboports to the ends of the earth since that's so much easier to balance.

[bobucles]

Smart inserters can be told to only load trains up to a certain point.

Train inventories can be manually filtered using middle-click.

It's still not perfect but it is a bit easier to manage. Realistically things would be much easier to manage with a pure liquid cargo car.

[Tev]

You can reserve slots in wagons.

I usually have one train over several oil outposts - one wagon, half empty, half full barrels. Also you can copy wagon settings the same way as chest (shift right click shift click). And I usually set the first wagon with stack of empty and full barrels, just right click the stack over the desired slots (placing one item in each place), then middle click to reserve it, and you're done.

[Quazar]

Currently I have a two cargo train traveling on single tracks, but since it goes in 2 different directions, it's rotating as it goes to all the stops.

FWIW and IMHO there's the problem, all else is symptom. Things will work better if you can get a predictable orientation, or yeah filter around it.

[twepy]

I just posted a solution for oil trains in the gameplay help. This solution offcourse only works when u keep track of wagon 1 and 2 so the loading and unloading happens in the right wagon.

[Quazar]

So today I think I experienced what the OP was talking about. I have a 2-car oil carrier, one for full and the other empties, and things worked perfectly until we got past peak oil. No problem, there's always another oil field somewhere. A bit later, two oil station loaders feeding the unloaded processor...

And then the empties started arriving in the car that carries full barrels! Filters wouldn't have helped, eventually I realized this is the "rotation" problem. The train leaves my factory <--empty+full--> and with only one stop, returns in the same fashion. But, with a second stop it pulls away after loading <--full+empty-->

The easy answer seemed the best, I added a "rotation spur" near the second oil field and moved on to the next problem.

[Manron]

I run a one-wagon train to collect oil and deliver empty barrels and it doesn't stall.

Just set half the wagon to full barrels and the other half to empty barrels via middle mouse button.

At the oilfields i got one ordinary steel chest for storing empty barrels limited to one or two slots depending on oil output.

No fancy smart inserters or circuit logic required, just make sure there's enough room for used (empty) barrels at your refinery.

[Neotix]

Setting filters in wagons to carry empty and full barrels is very inefficient because you're using only half of wagon capacity.
To make that more efficient you should use circuit logic.
But before that you have to think about problem and make algorithm to solve it.
Problem is that train carry empty barrels even when outposts don't need them. It cause that train carry empty barrels all the time because outpost can't unload them.
So we have to transport empty barrels only when outpost need them and all will be unload on outpost to make space for filled ones.
Also we have to deliver them to outpost that need empty barrels, not to every outpost or first one.

Algorithm (it's only example and can be modify/improve):
- When outpost have less then X empty barrels it send request signal in circuit network.
- Load empty barrels in refinery station only when request signal in network is greater then 0.
- Decrement request signal by 1 when train is loaded (time when train go from refinery to outpost can cause that next train will be loaded and we don't want it)
- Unload empty barrels on outpost when he is sending request signal (when outpost have still enough empty barrels it won't unload hem from train).
- Cancel request signal after unloading all empty barrels.
- Increment request signal by 1 in refinery station (empty barrels was delivered and we can nullify safety signal from 3rd point)

Now you have to figure out how to build it
That system can be very flexible and with some additions like buffer in refinery for empty barrels, produce barrels when buffer is almost empty etc. it can adjust itself without additional work to manage more trains and outposts.

[Manron]

Setting filters in wagons to carry empty and full barrels is very inefficient because you're using only half of wagon capacity.

Half a wagon of crude oil barrels is 3750 oil. Each wagon. So a 1x4 train could pick up 15.000 oil per trip. Show me a remote pumping station that puts out more than that ...

[Dave64738]

If your trains could go in either way then why not make them symmetrical, e.g. engine - full barrels - empties - full barrels - engine. Should solve the problem of not knowing where the full and empties are going to be.

[Koub]

Or you can have smart inserters that only take empty barrels from wagon as long as there are full barrels in the chest you take full barrels from to fill the wagon. Like that, you always exchange 1 empty barrel with one full barrel.

[nobodx]

More likely 1 stack.

IF you want to go nuts with wires, you could build a timer that starts when the train unloads its first item.
While the timer isn't running, a chest is filled to a set maximum. When the train arrives at the station and the first item is removed (via smart inserter with a filter) the timer starts. While the timer is running, no new items will be added to the chest.
The timer should be set to run as long as the train is in station, so that the export-chest is only filled between train stops.

But I prefer the lazy approach with a half full - half empty barrel wagon, and my oil outposts store a specific amount of empty barrels when the train arrives.

[Kelderek]

If your trains could go in either way then why not make them symmetrical, e.g. engine - full barrels - empties - full barrels - engine. Should solve the problem of not knowing where the full and empties are going to be.

I used this method when I came across this exact same issue. I used 3 cargo wagons instead of 2 and assigned the center one for empties and the outer two for full barrels. It is certainly not the most efficient, but it is foolproof and you don't even need to use smart inserters. My oil outposts never produce enough oil to fill up my trains with the schedule I have them run (more trains, shorter waits), so efficiency per train is less of a concern for me.

I really like this idea though too, and may give it a try:

Or you can have smart inserters that only take empty barrels from wagon as long as there are full barrels in the chest you take full barrels from to fill the wagon. Like that, you always exchange 1 empty barrel with one full barrel.

[XKnight]

Or you can have smart inserters that only take empty barrels from wagon as long as there are full barrels in the chest you take full barrels from to fill the wagon. Like that, you always exchange 1 empty barrel with one full barrel.

In reality this approach will not work.
Next situation may break it:
0: Chest: 30 empty 0 full, Inserters with condition (full > 0)
1: 1 empty barrel is filled. Chest: 29 empty 1 full. Condition is true.
2: Train arrives.
2.1: Inserters start moving. 29 empty + 1 empty in inserter from train, 0 full + 1 full in inserter from chest.
2.2: Train leaves the station.
3: Chest: 30 empty 0 full + 1 full in inserter (it didn't finish operation)
4: 1 empty barrels is filled. Chest: 29 empty 1 full + 1 full in inserter. Condition is true.
5: Train arrives.
5.1: Inserters start moving. 29 empty + 1 empty in inserter from train, 1 full + 0 full in inserter (full barrel was placed)
5.2: Train leaves the station.
6: Chest: 30 empty 1 full.

As a result this system has the same state as in 0 step (inserters don't hold anything) but with bigger amount of barrels.

[Serenity]

Coordinating the main factory with the outpost seems the most efficient, but that requires you to run circuit wire all over the place. And it only works point to point. Not in a complex network.

I'll just play with the Rail Tanker mod. Barrels in trains is silly anyways. But the problem also exists in your base when you play with a mod that allows barreling other fluids. Which sounds interesting until you think about having to belt back empty barrels. And suddenly pipes look easy again

[Tev]

Coordinating the main factory with the outpost seems the most efficient, but that requires you to run circuit wire all over the place. And it only works point to point. Not in a complex network.

I'll just play with the Rail Tanker mod. Barrels in trains is silly anyways. But the problem also exists in your base when you play with a mod that allows barreling other fluids. Which sounds interesting until you think about having to belt back empty barrels. And suddenly pipes look easy again

Robots make handling barrels trivial. Even with 0.13 pipe building upgrades it's going to be much easier to group pumpjacks / distribute oil with robots carrying barrels.

[Mythoss]

I just have one train. One wagon is assigned empty barrels the other wagon is filled with full barrels. The wagons are filling and unfilling both empty and full barrels at every stop. Super easy to setup. I don't know if it's the most efficient but it sure is easy to setup.

[Mensaniac]

I don't normally ship oil, damnit, now I have to build a station just to solve this non-problem. Basically the theory is to restrict the flow of new barrels into the system and keep the number below the maximum possible, thus allowing room for loading and unloading of barrels. At the loading station this is not really an issue, you want to unload all the empties and load as many full ones as will fit. The place to limit the new barrels is at the unloading station which in theory is your main base/factory and thus eliminates complicated controls at your outposts. You should have 6 smart chests on the loading side, that contain the empties from the dump factory and new barrels entering the system. The conveyor that feeds new barrels into the system should be blocked by a smart inserter, which is wired to all 6 of the chests and set to only place a new barrel in the system if all 6 chests are empty (no empties waiting to be loaded). On the unload side ( for full barrels) six more smart chests should be wired to a second smart inserter, which feeds new empty barrels to a conveyor that leads to the 1st smart inserter. This second inserter should be set to only insert new barrels if all 6 chests ( full barrels) are empty. In this way, if the refinery has a backlog of full barrels, no new empty barrels will enter the system, but if it needs more oil new barrels will enter a queue. If the system also has no empty barrels waiting to be loaded, then it will take a few barrels from this queue and put them into the system. If there is a backlog of either full barrels waiting to be processed, or empty barrels waiting to be loaded then no new empty barrels will enter the system.

http://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/f ... =668051813

[steinio]

Seems a first world problem.

Did you consider Rail Tanker?
In my eyes it's make more fun to let drive around a train with tank wagons then goods wagons.

Greetings steinio

[nobodx]

To control the amount of barrels, you could use a arithmetic combinator that puts out the amount of empty + full barrels, and your factory only builds more barrels, once they drop below a specific number.