Peace with Aliens

[driver]

A few ideas which come to my mind for alternativ peaceful gaming is something like a global village construction set (http://opensourceecology.org/gvcs/ which means small decentralized production). Instead of only one character there could be a handful of specialists that you could give a task, this means you collect a certain amount of materials at some special place and give them orders to construct something bigger like a special workshop, a locmotive, refinery or whatever. A small team would at least reduce some waiting times that you would get with only one playable character if you give him one special task and reduce the crafting-mechanics.
Maybe there's still some potential to improve the railroad aspect or driving trucks and for loading stations (cranes...)

[TuckJohn]

Introduce pheromones and smell...

https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=3440

The biters are a bit like insects - ants - which follow pheromones. That makes their behavior more plausible. And the biters are then no longer an enemy. They are the natives.
The idea is great, because if you are able to "see" those layers of different pheromones, you can see their "mood". And then you have a chance to understand their behavior - this is the key.

Are they angry? Look at the "angriness"-pheromone!
Do I need to switch off the factory? Construct an "angriness-pheromone-detector", which controls over the circuit network the power for parts of your factory and switches off, if it gets too high.
They fight always at the same paths and get always killed? Too easy! The dead biters have a smell and the next wave tries to avoid them and find a better place.
They search for food and mark the way to it with pheromones. Ever looked at ants following a path? Interesting...

And so on. The idea is in my eyes absolutely cool, are there some games outside, which tried that kind of deepness in simulating another species ever?

Please discuss details to that idea in the mentioned thread!

Yeah! That sounds like a really cool idea.

SemiRelated Book Rant

I just finished re-reading post-apocalyptic sci-fi series by Dan Wells, which I really enjoyed.Link. The book centers around genetically perfect soldiers that were created to win a war in Asia, but then rebelled due to the lack of rights. More relevant to this discussion though, is that these soldiers(called partials) have an advanced pheromone system, allowing for silent communication and location transfer, which adds some interesting literary value.

I think that adding pheromones to act like pollution would be awesome: each "chunk" could have a value for each different pheromone, which would decay over time. aliens die in a chunk? the Fear pheromone value is increased. Then, when the next attack is sent, the biters would be discouraged from traveling though that chunk. Biters happily destroying things? Increase the "happiness" pheromones in the chunk, encouraging more biters to attack there.

If the game was to add better alien AI, this would be the way to do it.

[ssilk]

This links deeper into that: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... f=6&t=3440 What do biters do in their spare time? (Pheromone pathfind)

[luffe]

Is there any work being done towards this or is this only at idea level still? Overall i have not been able to find what features are under development and was wonderinv if those are listed somewhere? Anyway i really love this idea since it could make your pacifist run kinda interesting by having to set up multiple low pollution factories to not piss off the aliens etc

[ssilk]

The pheromone system is just an idea. Or better: The pollution-simulation is currently the only implementation.

This is partly discussed in the news: https://forums.factorio.com/forum/vie ... 38&t=18615

[Jonathan88]

Could you not have different tribes of biters who may or may not get along with each other - if you please one tribe, it could defend you if you were attacked by another! The tribes could be distinguished by different coloured tinges?

[guiohm]

A few ideas which come to my mind for alternativ peaceful gaming is something like a global village construction set (http://opensourceecology.org/gvcs/ which means small decentralized production). Instead of only one character there could be a handful of specialists that you could give a task, this means you collect a certain amount of materials at some special place and give them orders to construct something bigger like a special workshop, a locmotive, refinery or whatever. A small team would at least reduce some waiting times that you would get with only one playable character if you give him one special task and reduce the crafting-mechanics.
Maybe there's still some potential to improve the railroad aspect or driving trucks and for loading stations (cranes...)

I really like this idea. Collaboration with a smart race of alien is what I would like. They could teach us how to create things in a more ecological way, in harmony with the local environment, etc. Some new types of technology could be used in some specific biomes, etc...
Actually I bought this game after having checked that there was a peaceful mode (and also a peaceful mod). I don't like any military stuff which goal is always destruction, while there are unlimited potentials and creative ways of collaborating to create new things! Way more fun!

And also it opens the way to have an ever expanding game, with exciting stuff to create, both for the devs and for the players. (Not so far from our real world in fact , but that's another topic)

[Ghoulish]

I like the idea. If there is one facet in a game that will keep players coming back it's choice. Adding more depth can only be a good thing.

[joe_da_cro]

i think for something like this there needs to be a clear definition of what the biters want. if the biters are like animals which react to pollution then there is not much of anything the player can do for peace. Although i would say if a player ventures into a nest that has no pollution that the player should not be attacked by default unless at a certain evolution.

I think this can be fleshed out better once elements such as RTS and or RPG are developed further as you can really generate a background for the biters and also change them if needed to better suit a peace option.

[Zackreaver]

While I'm not against the idea of having peace with the aliens, their aggressive interaction with you during development validates alot of the research options. I feel like peace with aliens should more be considered once there's more stuff to do, all we really do is gather materials, research, then gather more.

I feel like improvements towards exploration such as stuff we could find would help alleviate this. Maybe some luxury/rare resources that don't appear that often but provide some unique benefit or whatever. Maybe a special type of iron ore that get's processed faster than regular iron. Or maybe just another type of resource that's used for very specific things that isn't as available as the others. Currently we only really have alien artifact as a rare resource, and it's still pretty easy to get those.

[Thylacoloe]

i think for something like this there needs to be a clear definition of what the biters want. if the biters are like animals which react to pollution then there is not much of anything the player can do for peace. .

I was thinking we should have ways to control the level of pollution produced (discussed here viewtopic.php?f=6&t=22481#p141755). Have it as a compromise, you can either advance quick, easy, and dirty, or slow, clean, and more difficult. The pay off for investing the extra time would be less or the ability to reduce the level of pollution, which would in turn reduce the agro from the biters.
I also like the suggestion that the biters are just the guard element of the aliens, and there could be a smarter hive queen element that you could set up a trade contract or pact with.

[zvezdaburya]

I like the idea! Some people are talking about "the biters dont seem intelligent enough to trade with"

Fair enough, but what about the biological buildings and the fact that biters attack together. Is it possible to assume that there might be a "hivemind" involved here, in the sense that it is a more intelligent being and would be able to communicate and trade ?

[seronis]

Wolves and Dolphins attack in organized groups. Hivemind is not required for cooperation.

[Mauslag PIngman]

Late in the game the leading bug race of the planet is revealed and its the preying mantis. The preying mantis govern and have stayed hidden up to this point. They are capable of communicating with all the insects and you. Just one human makes such a mess of their world that they and you the human know that it would be impossible for humans to live on this planet in any numbers without destroying the bugs so you must go. The alien leader goes on to tell the story of his bug people in a way that shows that not only is he wise but his people, the bugs you've been slaughtering, are organized, compassionate, tolerant, intelligent and living in perfect balance on the planet. They are also not vanquished. You may have thought you won. At this point they reveal their superweapon the aliens can use to destroy everything. They haven't used it up to now because its a suicide weapon and it will kill all the life forms and destroy all the nests on a large chunk of the planet. Being a reasonable insect king he allows you to finish your rocket building activities and leave but you must promise not to come back or send other humans to exploit the resources.

So now you have to decide if you want to be a bad guy or a reasonable guy. You can try to destroy the doomsday weapon before its activated and then bring more humans back to exploit the resources or you can leave in peace and never come back or you can lie to the King, take advantage of his kindness to finish your rocket. Leave and then bring back people to loot the planet and destroy the alien paradise.

If you decide to take advantage of the King and return to loot the planet you will subsequently find that they have left behind yet another device and the means for your planets to be invaded by the bugs. They'd wipe out their own planet and save a few of themselves in bunkers and then go to your planets using your technology.

[warrends]

Well, I don't really see a lot of room to work with. The bitters in it's current form don't seem to be intelligent enough for trade.

Like others already stated, i don't see the Biters as intelligent enough for trade.

Have you ever read the Ender's Game series? The Buggers ended up being quite sentient and intelligent.

New player here. So not a lot of experience with the aliens (read: only a little bit via those few tutorials I have gone through). But I can already see that the end game requires engagement with the aliens. Some will enjoy the challenge of killing them, and doing so in hard-core mode. Others will much prefer to do so peacefully. So I really like the idea of enabling trade (in whatever fashion) with the aliens.

[LordLoki]

Well, I don't really see a lot of room to work with. The bitters in it's current form don't seem to be intelligent enough for trade.

Like others already stated, i don't see the Biters as intelligent enough for trade.

Have you ever read the Ender's Game series? The Buggers ended up being quite sentient and intelligent.

New player here. So not a lot of experience with the aliens (read: only a little bit via those few tutorials I have gone through). But I can already see that the end game requires engagement with the aliens. Some will enjoy the challenge of killing them, and doing so in hard-core mode. Others will much prefer to do so peacefully. So I really like the idea of enabling trade (in whatever fashion) with the aliens.

I say we introduce the "Brain Bug" to solve the "Biters are to Stupid" Problem. If you don't know what i am talking about stop what you are doing and watch Starship Troopers!!! (if you are one of the People that does not like Killing Bugs you should most likely not watch that movie )

[Bejay]

Maybe, the Biters don't have much to trade now but they seem to be a rather genetically 'flexible' race giving then a natural adaptive capacity the player can only match by augmenting themselves with technology.
What if the player could research some of the more organic sciences, genetics or organic chemistry etc... The aliens may have a lot to offer if the play, especially as suggested above if the aliens are bio-formers of some description. There is a lot that can be learned from them one way or another.

[deareim]

Will it not be possible they evolve more with time ? (especially for MP end game)
Meaning they could become "intelligent" beings in their own way with the time and tried to start some kind of technology ?

[IIIStrife]

Maybe there could be research to find a way to make the pollution beneficial to the alien hive you've contacted? (providing of course Aliens aren't in one faction, or few factions, working via a hive mind of some kind) Though being able to produce massive pollution, evolving your alien allies, it would only make sense if they could expand as well.

You and the aliens could enter a sort of co-operative alliance later on, maybe if you lower pollution per thing a certain amount.

The idea is awesome, I'd love it honestly, but... I'd still question how you could do lots of things at once... without producing alot of pollution, as the only way to "minimize" pollution across the board, is to put efficiency modules in everything, and switch to solar power completely.
Like there's no "Hyper expensive" drills that are completely clean, same with furnaces as well.
But even then, you can still produce a lot of pollution over the time that you expand, which would eventually anger your allies... unless you just NEVER expanded over towards them.

[seronis]

Maybe there could be research to find a way to make the pollution beneficial to the alien hive

Pollution is already both food and cocaine to aliens. How much more beneficial does it need to get? Aliens LOVE pollution. It encourages evolution, growth and virility. They just dont like YOU once they realize you are there.