Pirating Factorio

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malokin
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Pirating Factorio

Post by malokin » Wed Dec 18, 2013 5:59 pm

also pirated before buying the game maybe ill go upload 0.8.1 to thepiratebay.org and ignite the "holy war"

dont hate the playa hate the game son
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Re: Role playing direction

Post by Nova » Wed Dec 18, 2013 6:10 pm

malokin wrote:dont hate the playa hate the game son
What?


Well, I can understand the persons who first pirate a game and only after that buy it. You can test the whole game and it's just more attractive to pay nothing. Of course many people just never pay for the game, that's the problem. It is not possible to eliminate this problem. Very sad that some developers don't get the money they deserve.
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Re: Role playing direction

Post by malokin » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:19 pm

its just like indie music, if you dont share your music on facebook, myspace etc etc, do you really think youll get discovered in some bar inside of a bowling alley? first, get the game out there and known, educating the consumer is the hardest part of marketing. Then, monetize like a mothafucka.

The demo doesnt have crap in it. if i had only had the demo instead of pirateing, i never would have bought the game. the demo didnt show me how cool the game was, the demo was lame. demos havnt even been done since gigex games and the other game demoing sites went bust (meaning demos as a marketing tool will be much less effective without a web infrastructure to market the demos directly to consumers). one of the devs grew up downloading game demos like i did probably.

consumers decide when they pay money on the internet. get used to it.
any "artist" who creates digital works should understand the nature of digital works is that they cannot be copy protected in the classic sense. if you try and enforce this in the classic sense youll be sueing the whole damn world.
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Re: Role playing direction

Post by Gammro » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:23 pm

While I think piracy is inevitable, and will probably happen to this game. Talking about that you pirated it on the official forums is a whole other level of douche thing to do. So yes, I am hating on the player right now.

Likewise, the demo got me hungry for more. It showed me what the game's scope was and that there was more in the full game. So I bought it. It's one of the better demo's out there in respects to gametime, content and a good showcase of what the full game is like. With a demo like this, there is really no reason to pirate this if you want to try it first without having to pay.
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Re: Role playing direction

Post by Darthlawsuit » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:25 pm

TGS wrote: 1. No offense, but given that there is effectively a demo for the game. I find it quite offensive and appalling that you would pirate the game, then confess to said piracy arrogantly on the forums while 'adding your two cents'. Glad you bought the game, but coming onto the forums announcing your piracy of the game is just wrong.
If I hadn't gotten into the kickstarter I would have pirated it as well before buying it. I have bought too many defective games or games that do not deliver what they promised and now I am wary of buying any game at full price so I will either pirate or demo the game (If the demo is any good). Many times I do skip the demo because so many demos are terrible and do not give you a good feel of the game, not sure about this games demo as I haven't played it since kickstarter.

Pirating got me into Europa Universalis 3 and Hearts of iron 3, now I am into about 5 of their game series. If I never pirated that first game they would have never gotten me to throw my money at them. Pirating is one of the best forms of advertising out there, well before the steam free-play weekends. Some games also do not have demos so it is pirate or blindly throw your money at something with no hope of a refund if defective....

I also OWN some games that I CANNOT play without pirating. Their non-pirated versions are so defective that they cannot be played, their pirated versions are the only ones that work.

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Re: Role playing direction

Post by ssilk » Wed Dec 18, 2013 7:53 pm

malokin wrote: The demo doesnt have crap in it. if i had only had the demo instead of pirateing, i never would have bought the game. the demo didnt show me how cool the game was, the demo was lame. demos havnt even been done since gigex games and the other game demoing sites went bust (meaning demos as a marketing tool will be much less effective without a web infrastructure to market the demos directly to consumers). one of the devs grew up downloading game demos like i did probably.
Once I had a C64 (correction I have a C64 in my cellar) and when it wouldn't had so many pirated software for it, it wouldn't got that great. Same with many other systems.

I mean: let them copy it. In a month there will be a new release. If they like it, they will repeat pirating or buy it. The same in two month. And so on. At any point they give up :). The problem isn't such a problem, when the software is updated often and bring many new features and fixes.

And to the demo: well. Hadn't played it. But i mean here should be a more or less full demo out, which is for example not able to load a game (save should work!). Eventually no trains and/or logistic bots, no modules, and no modding/console at all. The tutorial should be playable, but only, as long as you don't stop the game. Etc.
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Re: Role playing direction

Post by malokin » Wed Dec 18, 2013 8:14 pm

People who pay for all the games they sink 10+ hours dont feel like bad people for trying before they buy. even if the devs (tynansylvester) or forum members (TGS and Gammro) cry us HUGE rivers.

People who know how to use TOR dont fear forum bans or IP tracking.
<torrent link removed>
Last edited by FreeER on Fri Jan 10, 2014 12:48 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: removal of torrent link

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Re: Role playing direction

Post by slpwnd » Wed Dec 18, 2013 11:27 pm

We have pretty much the same opinion with Kovarex regarding downloading the game from the torrents. If someone buys the game, well awesome. Don't really care whether he bought it straight away or tested it on the torrent first. If someone downloads it from the torrent, likes it / plays it, but never buys it - well not much we can do, at least he is having fun and maybe other people will learn about it this way (via him / her).

We try to provide a sort of "service" to motivate people to buy the game and don't just pirate it:
- automatic updater + relatively regular releases
- safety (some copies of Factorio on the torrents were bigger than the original - probably containing malware)
- maybe in the future using login to access the official multiplayer matching server

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Re: Role playing direction

Post by Darthlawsuit » Thu Dec 19, 2013 2:21 am

slpwnd wrote:We have pretty much the same opinion with Kovarex regarding downloading the game from the torrents. If someone buys the game, well awesome. Don't really care whether he bought it straight away or tested it on the torrent first. If someone downloads it from the torrent, likes it / plays it, but never buys it - well not much we can do, at least he is having fun and maybe other people will learn about it this way (via him / her).

We try to provide a sort of "service" to motivate people to buy the game and don't just pirate it:
- automatic updater + relatively regular releases
- safety (some copies of Factorio on the torrents were bigger than the original - probably containing malware)
- maybe in the future using login to access the official multiplayer matching server
Have you ever though of releasing copies of factorio designed to be pirated that have "additional" marketing features in them? A few games I have did that and it worked pretty well for them. It was a fully functional version of the game but everytime you started it up it said (with a dialog box):
"This is a pirated version of XXXX. If you like the game then support the developers and buy the game at "www.devwebsite.com". Your purchases go towards future development of the game and help keep the devs fed. (Forget how this part was said...) If you enjoyed this game spread the word about this game so we can develop it further."

It doesn't mess up the game or gameplay so usually hackers don't bother modifying it out and it can remind people they have a pirated version of the game. Sometimes the piraters will even promote your game just because they didn't buy it. Maby when they see it on sale one day they will buy it when they have the money, just because they enjoyed the pirated version. I have done this multiple times for games I pirated when I had no money, some of my friends as well.

Definitely don't let pirated versions have multiplayer that is the best incentive for them to buy it.

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Re: Role playing direction

Post by malokin » Thu Dec 19, 2013 3:57 am

@darthlawsuit
If you create a special version of a game like that, unless it has extra useful features, most torrent sites would just flag and delete that torrent for being misleading/mislabeled content, then the pirates would acquire the "standard edition" and distribute it. The reason devs should make a piratebayaccount is because then people can't do what slpwnd said, and alter the game to include spyware/malware. I wish more devs were open to these kinds of things, factorio is popular enough now that people like me will be releasing a torrent (hopefully!) every update.

@slpwnd
Thats precisely why i wanted to upload the 0.8.1 exe, all of the older versions are suspected to be from people who are creating amateur botnets. The copy of 0.8.1 at that link isnt off of the proper size as you elude correct?? 106.68 mb for version 0.8.1 64x exe??

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Re: Role playing direction

Post by slpwnd » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:47 am

@darthlawsuit I know about Game Dev Tycoon that did it and it was a fantastic marketing campaign for them. Brilliant idea. Some time into the game in the pirated version the indie studio you are playing for would go under because of too many people pirating your games:D

@malokin I wasn't talking specifically about 0.8.1. The one I was talking about happened quite some time ago (like 3 months). Anyway we might provide official checksums in the future on the release page so people can check whether their release has some potential spyware or not. And just a side note: experimental releases are sometimes very short lived (like 0.8.1 with two very serious bugs in it will be), so you might consider waiting a little bit before you put it on the torrent.

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Re: Role playing direction

Post by Nova » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:00 am

malokin wrote:@darthlawsuit
If you create a special version of a game like that, unless it has extra useful features, most torrent sites would just flag and delete that torrent for being misleading/mislabeled content, then the pirates would acquire the "standard edition" and distribute it.
Why should they do additional work, if the version is nearly the same without any drawbacks? As long as you don't implement any "features" like "Wait 10 seconds to read the pirate message" it should be no problem.
To be honest, I like the idea.

Maybe we should open another thread for this questions. Torrents have nothing to do with the role playing direction. ^^
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Re: Pirating Factorio

Post by slpwnd » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:15 am

Nova wrote:Maybe we should open another thread for this questions. Torrents have nothing to do with the role playing direction. ^^
Done and moved the posts.

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Re: Pirating Factorio

Post by Zero_Berz » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:54 am

Lol. seems like copywar... never changes.
Some statements then.

1)Watching this spinoff-topic solidifies my opinion on the game and developers team. You are awesome guys, who made awesome game. Period. :)

2) This will be long. (and yea, my english sucks)
Well, I can understand the persons who first pirate a game and only after that buy it. You can test the whole game and it's just more attractive to pay nothing
I think it is not a mystery, that game industry is dying. No, it doesn`t mean that there will be no games soon. It`s not about quantity, it`s about quality.

Most AAA titles degraded to "press x to win". Publishers become greedy, stupid and no-iq-kids oriented. There are a lot of examples. D3 is most recent.
So it`s become quite common, that people using pirated copies, and only then buying if good. (good thing as to me. Making bad games deserves bancrupcy)

I know why dev team here not afraid of pirates ;) . They actually know, that they made a good game. And such games doesn`t need insane DRM, permanent connect and so on. Yea, some people will never buy this or any other game. Doesn`t really matter. Because there allways will be a lot of people, who will want to say "thx devs!" in solid "$".

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Re: Role playing direction

Post by Psycho0124 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 4:00 pm

slpwnd wrote:If someone buys the game, well awesome. Don't really care whether he bought it straight away or tested it on the torrent first
I pirated it before I bought it. After an hour of playing and seeing the depth and quality, I went to factorio.com and bought it straight away.
Nothing says "Thanks for the kickass game, keep going!' like cold hard cash.

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Re: Pirating Factorio

Post by malokin » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:29 pm

Tynan Sylvester, the developer of rimworld is a big piracy pussie. (LONGPOST INCOMING)

http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index ... 747AAwqSGb

Read that and tell me if you ever consider handing him your money again. He blindly denies that releasing your game for free (to the people tech savy enough to steal your game if they really wanted to) as a marketing tool is usually a money maker for indie devs, NOT a death sentence via starvation.

To be fully honest, I hate him for one SMALL extra reason. When the blonde manboy moved into his apartment building, he had the cojones to try to get people in his building thrown out because they were supposedly smoking and he could smell it in his apartment. While it is a violation of the apartment rules, (like piracy), in reality, the apartment building owners have been turning a blind eye to this for years, as a common practice, leasing agents will put all the smokers in one building (try legally proving someone smokes in a small claims court).

Tynan doesn't understand his leasing agent saw he was a young man with spikey hair (whatever the duck is on that kid's head) and he thought he would be a "cool party guy" so he put you with the other loud party youngins. They thought the smell of medical marijuana and cigarette smoke was going to act as an aphrodisiac for all the drunk teenage hoes at the never ending party that is going on in your apartment.
They really didnt realize he's a whiny DORK, the kind who sides with the RIAA and the people who try to put the piratebay creators in jail. (see that yahoo link again where his bears his bleeding heart to the internet)

tldr: Tynan Sylvester creator of rimworld hates you if you want to pirate his game for any reason. My advice: pirate his game just for the numbers. Just to get the number of seeders and downloaders up so that when tynan checks on the torrent sites, maybe this time he'll cut just a little bit deeper.
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Re: Pirating Factorio

Post by SilverWarior » Thu Dec 19, 2013 7:40 pm

Zero_Berz wrote:I think it is not a mystery, that game industry is dying. No, it doesn`t mean that there will be no games soon. It`s not about quantity, it`s about quality.
Yes I agree with you. The game industry is dying. But there is something good in this. And that is the fact that this gives better chances for Indie developers to sucseed.
The main reason why game industry is dying are publishers. All big publishers only serc great looking games preferably to be FPS, RPG or MMO themed. This in the end results in fact that most of the big game developers are making quite similar games. These games rarely have any new uniqe features in them so playing one seems like you played them all. So this results in their value actually dropping with time.
So what they do to increase the value of their games? They make even more awsome graphics, more special visual and audio efects and unfortunately in many ocasions even worsening gameplay with this.
And all this raises the development costs to the roof. If you check the link below you will be amazed how much money has been spent for some of the most expensive games out there.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mo ... to_develop

If the game industry wont realize soon that excelent looking game with terible gameplay is still terrible game and poor looking game with excelent gameplay is still excelent game (take Minecraft for example) they soon won't have any chances to sell their games as pepole would rather buy Indie games becouse most Indie game developers already figured that out long ago.
Also the game industry needs to realize that no matter how much effort you put into develoipment of coppy protection systems they will be hacked/cracked sooner or later. And yes developing such system is quite expensive. Sure you can just buy existing one from some other company but that means that such system is present in multiple games which increases the chance for it to be hacked/cracked.
The worst thing about coppy protection systems is that every now and then they actually prevent legite users from playing and marks them as pirates.
Just serch the web about the problems Valve had with their Steam and "false positives" which resuted in banning over 150 K of users accounts. Not all of them were pirated accounts. And the worst thing about steam is that when you getbanned they don't ban you acces only to the pirated game but to your whole account.
I remember reading a blog from a guy which works for one of Game Reviewing sites. Steam banned his account becouse their VAC system falesly detected one of his games to be pirated. So by banning his whole account they disalowed him acces to over 100 of games he legitetly bought. Estimated total value of those games was about 5000 USD.
Now since he actually plays games for living he doesn't need to pirate them as his eployers are actually paying him for these games so it is verry unlikely he went and realy pirated some game.

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Re: Pirating Factorio

Post by Zero_Berz » Thu Dec 19, 2013 8:23 pm

If the game industry wont realize soon that excelent looking game with terible gameplay is still terrible game and poor looking game with excelent gameplay is still excelent game
In the past, majority of games were made by enthusiastic dreamers. Many games had a bit of "soul" weaved into them. Now "effective managers" came into play. And "soul-imbued" games become privelege of only indy developers, who still able to make games for gamers and not for money. Long ago i got a copy of "Hammerfight". Game was...great for 1 man made thing. Ofc it was pirated copy. Year later, when i found it on steam, the very first thing i`ve done... right. I`ve got a legal copy, though i don`t play it anymore. Because i feel grateful for that guy. he gave me over 100 hours of fun.
On the other hand D3. I hope every cent i paid will bestow Erectile disfunction curse on the "effective managers", responsible for ruining my dreams :evil: .

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Re: Pirating Factorio

Post by rk84 » Thu Dec 19, 2013 9:16 pm

Demo was enough for me to buy the game (and some youtube videos might help too). I hope the upcoming trailer will help people to decide.
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Re: Pirating Factorio

Post by Darthlawsuit » Fri Dec 20, 2013 3:43 am

@darthlawsuit I know about Game Dev Tycoon that did it and it was a fantastic marketing campaign for them. Brilliant idea. Some time into the game in the pirated version the indie studio you are playing for would go under because of too many people pirating your games:D
My friend pirated Game Dev Tycoon and talked about it being good. I wanted to try a different type of game so I ended up buying that game. One of my friends asked me how it was and he endedup buying it as well. My friend has talked to his friends about it as well and it shows he is playing it on steam. 1 Pirate = 2 confirmed sales and about 9 people seen their friends playing it. The game industry needs to adapt.

There will be people that will NEVER buy a game and ONLY pirate it, like my friend that pirated it. The only reason he buys games is for multiplayer because the pirated version that doesn't have it. You cannot make a sale to them, but you can use them as a source of advertising and appeal to them to spread word of the game. If 1 person buys the game in their place you have lost nothing, is 2 you have gained, etc...
I think it is not a mystery, that game industry is dying.
I disagree. If anything the game industry is changing and for the better. EA games and other large corporations are losing control over game releases and smaller independant developers are taking their place. Kickstarter has allowed games that would have NEVER been approved at EA games to be made and the game industry is more diverse than ever
I know why dev team here not afraid of pirates ;) . They actually know, that they made a good game. And such games doesn`t need insane DRM, permanent connect and so on. Yea, some people will never buy this or any other game. Doesn`t really matter. Because there allways will be a lot of people, who will want to say "thx devs!" in solid "$".
If you have a good game you will have a fan base. Fanbases will buy what you produce and be an almost guaranteed source of income. So long as you do not screw over the fan base they will keep buying your games. The X-Series USED to have a dedicated fan base that would buy any game they released, then they betrayed us and lost half their fanbase at LEAST. I actually don't buy games with more DRM on it than steam. The only reason I deal with steam is because they give me 75% of on my games and that price is worth having the steam DRM on it.

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