Friday Facts #124 - Steam Status I

[Koub]

You'll still be able to get and update the game from factorio.com.
But Steam Users will have the ability to get it from Steam too.

[daniel34]

In contrast to all of the replies to FFF I've made: if the game goes Steam-only, that'll be the day I can no longer update Factorio again, and will be stuck on the previous version. It would have been a good run.

The game doesn't go Steam-only, you can still download Factorio from the website as you could before. The steam key is optional, you can request one or not, the website will stay the same and you'll still be able to download updates.

[_aD]

Thanks for the prompt replies. At the moment the FFF states: "One option would be that the game would be available via Steam or via our webpage but not both. Hopefully that won't be necessary=)."

If it is meant that Steam keys might only be available by Steam, this is an important difference.

[prg]

How is this soundtrack DLC supposed to work? The music files are already laying around somewhere in data/, am I not allowed to simply point a media player at them? If I bought this DLC, I'd get to download exactly the same files that are already part of the Factorio installation, but only then I'd be allowed to listen to them outside of the game?

[Fatmice]

@Fatmice
I'm a fan of your fancy language skills, but you don't really use them in a way that helps anyone. What are you talking about anyway? About parts of the Mining Drill Operator tier not being delivered? About the scenario pack being distributed for free now? Or just the fact that no one will ever be able to buy such a tier again? What specific contract are you referencing? It sounded to me as if you only wish to be able to access your tier's bonuses even after the Steam release date. Which is certainly going to be the case. I highly doubt Wube intends to take away all bonuses, as stated repeatedly in answers to you. Why would they not allow downloading them anymore? The post suggests they're just not selling them as a bonus anymore.

If you ask me, they should still be available for these tiers on the website in the future, even though they're not up to date. Is that what you wanted to say, too?
Also, I didn't see anyone ask for a physical reward yet. That'd be ridiculous.

If you read carefully the paragraphs that I quoted, you would have seen what I was talking about. I don't know how to be more clear. The tiers are going away and to be merged into one, Transport Belt Repair Man. I do not have a problem with this if I am still a Mining Drill Operator. At the moment, this is something only I know and you do not unless I disclosed it, which I just did. This is something that should remain. It is a legacy of the past and I like to keep it on my account with Wube, not the forum account, which is something separate. To remove it and deprive me of it is the breaking of contract that I've alluded to. Unlike others, I do not want any goods or tokens of appreciation. What could be downloaded as mementos, I've already done so. The only thing that matters to me is the tier that perhaps only I will know. It sounds strange, but it's the matter of principle that I care about. After all, if I don't, then why did I back them at that tier if I don't trust that they will do the right thing? The decision to merge the tiers without consideration of the optics of that decision is the breaking of the principle. This whole enterprise functions on gentleman's agreement. Think about it and see if the back of your neck doesn't itch.

How is this soundtrack DLC supposed to work? The music files are already laying around somewhere in data/, am I not allowed to simply point a media player at them? If I bought this DLC, I'd get to download exactly the same files that are already part of the Factorio installation, but only then I'd be allowed to listen to them outside of the game?

The 0.12 features a new soundtrack. We plan to make this available for purchase as a standalone DLC. This is meant for users who want to support us and our music composer beyond the scope of the game.

I take that to mean they are the same sounds that we currently hear in 0.12.x. Simply, if you buy the sound-DLC, it's extra revenue for them. It's a show of support more than anything if you do that. You can already listen to the sounds outside of the game.

[prg]

How is this soundtrack DLC supposed to work? The music files are already laying around somewhere in data/, am I not allowed to simply point a media player at them? If I bought this DLC, I'd get to download exactly the same files that are already part of the Factorio installation, but only then I'd be allowed to listen to them outside of the game?

The 0.12 features a new soundtrack. We plan to make this available for purchase as a standalone DLC. This is meant for users who want to support us and our music composer beyond the scope of the game.

I take that to mean they are the same sounds that we currently hear in 0.12.x. Simply, if you buy the sound-DLC, it's extra revenue for them. It's a show of support more than anything if you do that. You can already listen to the sounds outside of the game.

Yeah, I've read this FFF, too. Still wondering what the point is. If I wanted to throw money at the devs I could simply donate it, then I'd even get to specify the exact amount and Valve wouldn't get a cut. And yes, I'm aware that I'm already able to listen to the music, the question is whether I'm allowed to do so without owning this DLC.

[daniel34]

Mining Drill Operator
Put YOUR name in the game. Would you like to have a research lab named after you? Or a train station? The players will see that YOU contributed to the creation of Factorio every time they adjust schedule of their trains. Apart from this the tier includes our humble concept art book and access to our internal graphics wiki. The wiki is a google page so you need a google account to access it. Oh and the previous tiers are included of course.

The tiers are going away and to be merged into one, Transport Belt Repair Man. I do not have a problem with this if I am still a Mining Drill Operator. At the moment, this is something only I know and you do not unless I disclosed it, which I just did. This is something that should remain. It is a legacy of the past and I like to keep it on my account with Wube, not the forum account, which is something separate.

Should Wube ever decide to reward the Mining Drill Operators with something the other tiers wouldn't have got, they will still know which accounts belong(ed) to what tier. You know you're a Mining Drill Operator, so why do you insist on having it on the page when you log in, given that others can't see it anyway?

To remove it and deprive me of it is the breaking of contract that I've alluded to.

What contract are you talking about?

Unlike others, I do not want any goods or tokens of appreciation. What could be downloaded as mementos, I've already done so. The only thing that matters to me is the tier that perhaps only I will know. It sounds strange, but it's the matter of principle that I care about.

It does sound like you want some tokens of appreciation for your backing of the highest tier, even if only you know about it. (Appreciation from whom?)

After all, if I don't, then why did I back them at that tier if I don't trust that they will do the right thing?

Probably because you wanted to support them and because of the perks this tier gets you. Or why did you back that tier and not of the lower ones? What would be the right thing in your eyes?

The decision to merge the tiers without consideration of the optics of that decision is the breaking of the principle. This whole enterprise functions on gentleman's agreement. Think about it and see if the back of your neck doesn't itch.

It doesn't, because you have a tier that after steam release won't be available anymore, as the tiers are all merged into one. Nobody will be able to later add their name to the game (except maybe as DLC, as stated in the FFF), or get access to the concept art book or internal graphics wiki.

tl;dr You bought the Mining Drill Operator, you supported the development of Factorio, you get the perks for your tier (that might not even be available after steam launch) - what's your problem?

[Fatmice]

Yeah, I've read this FFF, too. Still wondering what the point is. If I wanted to throw money at the devs I could simply donate it, then I'd even get to specify the exact amount and Valve wouldn't get a cut. And yes, I'm aware that I'm already able to listen to the music, the question is whether I'm allowed to do so without owning this DLC.

The short answer is yes, directly from their TOS

You may use Factorio and other paid content for your own personal use.

The sound track falls under this "content" and since you've paid for it, you can listen to it outside of the game, "personal use." You can't share those sound track obviously. It is likely they are offering the sound track as a DLC so there is additional revenue for the sound artist. Wube might not personally take much out of that transaction. That is my guess. Like I said, it's a show of support for buying what's already there.

@daniel34
You don't seem to understand what I am talking about and frankly I'm too tired to explain it again. I've already said all there is to be said. But a clarification,

Probably because you wanted to support them and because of the perks this tier gets you. Or why did you back that tier and not of the lower ones? What would be the right thing in your eyes?

Actually, I did started at the lowest tier, then upgraded after I've seen and played with their work. I did so not for the extra stuff or the tier, but because I saw the project was worthwhile.

[jockeril]

I understand the practical...

Mining Drill Operator
Put YOUR name in the game...

However, what would be super extra neat, would be to add a couple Steam Achievements only people who have bought the game before Steam Launch will get. This could keep the different tiers, and get a nice description telling things like : "Transport belt repair man : Was confident enough to bet on the game while it was still in early development made by a yet to be known indie studio", "Mining Drill Operator : Was generous enough to support the aforementioned studio another bit to help providing the game. All players praise this guy, because the game might have not been so good if his kind hadn't been there".

You know, something to tell every Steam user in the world that at least a few drops in the Factorio sea are from this guy, who helped make things possible.

I think that is a good idea, but fear that you will get hate mail from many angry achievement hunters that will be very furious about the game having an achievement they can't ever get.

A better solution, imho, will be to upgrade all existing players up to the launch to Mining Drill Operator. yes, I know and understand that that is a complex operation, but I know this Czech based software developer that made (so far) one amazing strategy game - he might be willing to write a script to update all of our names into the game - That in my opinion will be a perpetuation (a way to "immortalize") of our contribution to the success of the game from before the steam launch (no offence but the other "prizes" of this tier never appealed to me and I suppose to many more, or you would not even need the steam launch )

I hope you will consider this suggestion, as I have given it much thought over the weekend in an effort to find a balance between the changes you need to make (and I support them as I supported you when I decided to invest more than the easy $15 when I joined this mostly finished but kinda buggy game, as it was before 0.11.22) AND the the appreciation you should, imho, give your current playerbase.

[Zeblote]

However, what would be super extra neat, would be to add a couple Steam Achievements only people who have bought the game before Steam Launch will get. This could keep the different tiers, and get a nice description telling things like : "Transport belt repair man : Was confident enough to bet on the game while it was still in early development made by a yet to be known inide studio", "Mining Drill Operator : Was generous enough to support the aforementioned studio another bit to help providing the game. All players praise this guy, because the game might have not been so good if his kind hadn't been there".

You know, something to tell every Steam user in the world that at least a few drops in the Factorio sea are from this guy, who helped make things possible.

Steam doesn't allow unobtainable achievements.

[Rwn]

Steam doesn't allow unobtainable achievements.

Pillars of Eternity has an achievement exclusive to Kickstarter backers.

[markheloking]

Because of this I took this opportunity to upgrade to mining drill operator and still get my name in the game, but also support the devs one more time! I'm not in the boat of "I need my exclusive content", I mean, I got what I paid for didn't I? I'd rather have other people have all the content and having fun playing the game because I supported it at an earlier stage than anything else. That's the whole point of buying the game while its in alpha anyway right?

Btw, I solemnly love the fact that the devs are so cool, in touch with the community (that will be much harder after the steam horde joins the forums) and so progressive with your stance on piracy and drm and all. Thank you guys, keep making this amazing game!

I do think it's a big miss that the multiplayer server matching wasn't implemented before the steam release as I think multiplayer is the best part of the game.

[slpwnd]

So, we have a juicy discussion going, that is good=))

To be honest, I have expected a bit of uneasiness, so let's just clarify a few things first and then see what can be done in the future.

1. The names / status of the existing tiers is not going to change.

If someone has bought the mining-drill-operator / furnace-attendant that is what his status will still be. And if we are lucky and persistent enough and one day we have forums - website logins integration, this is what will most probably be visible in his profile.

2. The content of the mining-drill-operator is not going to change either.

So if someone bought the mining-drill-operator he will still have access to the name-in-the-game feature, the wiki and the gfx book.

3. The terms of service clearly state ("The contents and the price of particular tiers are subject to change in the future. We reserve the right to change the tier prices and add content when we feel it is appropriate.") that this situation is part of the agreement.

4. There is a possibility that we will reward the furnace-attendant and mining-drill-operator tiers in some other way in the (near) future (there were a few interesting suggestions in the discussion so far). However this is a possibility that cannot be promised at the moment. That is why it is not mentioned in the blog post (we have learned a few lessons about making premature promises already).

5. If you feel negatively affected by this change, that is rather unfortunate. We truly appreciate the great support we are getting from the community either in financial form (buying extra tiers or buying the game at all instead of torrenting it) or in the form of suggestions / bug reports / etc. We try our best to make Factorio a truly outstanding and enjoyable game. One of our mantras is not to take shortcuts, make things properly and make best game for the players we can. My impression so far has been that the community support is a kind of helping hand from players all over the world. Seeing you guys enjoying the game so much is a great source of fuel for the development. This has been said a few times already but I find it important to mention it again and again, because I find this to be one of the cores of the game success so far.

However we don't feel indebted to people buying the game. We don't feel that there is something we have to do in return for them spending their money on Factorio. So if somebody bought the more expensive tier and now there is a feeling that we have to do something to compensate him for providing the content of that tier to wider audience, then that is not the way I view things. We might still do that (as mentioned in the point 4), but that would be to express our gratitude to people who have been with us for a long time and not because we have changed the package content and now we have to make sure that we don't hurt someone's feelings.

Hope this provides some clarification.

[Originus]

the devs are doing a great job and I am very happy that we all get Steam-keys!
So I will update to mining drill operator and will buy a seperate copy on steam to fix a friend to factorio, nice work guys!

[Kalanndok]

@slpwnd:
I can live with the wallpapers and scenarios being available to everyone now (bought Furnace Attendand tier). It's not that something I paid for is going to be scrapped.
However for future games I will definately not buy any higher tier than the most basic one because of that.

Furthermore even though Factorio is a great game I can no longer recommend it without explicitly stating that shady business practice of yours.
Few years ago Ubisoft did something similar with an exclusive DLC for a collector's edition. Only three days later they had to yield to the shitstorm by developing new exclusive content for the buyers of the collector's edition.

[_aD]

It's very refreshing for a game developer to have simple, clear and fair terms for the transaction, when the game is under development. The same goes for them sticking to those terms. It's also good that areas they're not certain about - because the game is being developed - they state this outright. This way, consumers can have all of the facts, and be aware of what might change, before they commit to the transaction.

Kudos to Wube for all of this.

[MeduSalem]

Few years ago Ubisoft did something similar with an exclusive DLC for a collector's edition. Only three days later they had to yield to the shitstorm by developing new exclusive content for the buyers of the collector's edition.

Well exclusive content is always fuel for heated debates. It always causes bad blood because that's an unavoidible sideeffect of making something "exclusive":

• You lock majority of people out and they may not be too amused about that depending on the impact of the exclusive content has on the gameplay
• You oblige yourself to satisfying a minority which may be time and resource consuming and which may be better invested somewhere else because it doesn't outweigh the additional money the people paid.

Moral of the story: Don't have exclusive deals and treat all customers equally.

[PaulV]

How about giving the people that had the higher tier packages the soundtrack for free? Seems fair to give them at least something extra. (I'm not one of them btw.)

[enmoku]

Getting Factorio on GOG would be cool as well, but getting through their moderated EA/Indev screening might be a challenge (I don't know what criteria they use).

[Drury]

Tomas has a point, we bought the high tiers to support the devs first, acquire gimmicks second. The bonuses are rewards, not purchased goods.

At the same time I don't blame anyone feeling ripped off. That's what's happening, can't sugar coat it it any way, not that Tomas even tried, anyway - good job being honest, as I said before, most devs rely on PR to manipulate people, Wube just gets straight down to business which is just fine. "If you feel negatively affected by this change, that is rather unfortunate" - possibly the very best way to dump a GF I know of. Excellent.

I guess now that everyone made themselves clear I think all that's left to do is wait and see what happens.