Version 0.8.0

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ssilk
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Re: Version 0.8.0

Post by ssilk »

Narnach wrote: After picking up 2 or 3 damaged walls while re-designing defenses also discovered they don't stack and that you can't repair them in your inventory. The latter was more annoying to me. Maybe damaged walls could stack with other damaged walls and their health can be equalized? So 2 walls with 50 and 100 health each becomes a stack of 2 walls with 75 health each? This preserves the damage, but makes them easier to manage. Then allow them to be repaired in your inventory and I'm happy.
When putting an item into inventory it must be moved into a stack. And a stack can contain only number of items of the identical type - and new - same amount of damage. I would bet, if you have two defect items with the same damage they would be put into the same stack...

But as compromise: the first defected item needs an extra stack. But every other defect item of the same type is put into the same stack and changes the damage of this stack. Example: stack with one wall, 50% damage. Now we add a second wall with 90% damage. The result is a stack with two walls and 70% damage. Now add a third with 82% and the resulting stack is then three walls with 74%. And so on. Practically I would add an item into the stack and add also all damage-points to this stack; avoids inaccuracies.

Can this be cheated?
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Re: Version 0.8.0

Post by kovarex »

ssilk wrote:
Narnach wrote: After picking up 2 or 3 damaged walls while re-designing defenses also discovered they don't stack and that you can't repair them in your inventory. The latter was more annoying to me. Maybe damaged walls could stack with other damaged walls and their health can be equalized? So 2 walls with 50 and 100 health each becomes a stack of 2 walls with 75 health each? This preserves the damage, but makes them easier to manage. Then allow them to be repaired in your inventory and I'm happy.
When putting an item into inventory it must be moved into a stack. And a stack can contain only number of items of the identical type - and new - same amount of damage. I would bet, if you have two defect items with the same damage they would be put into the same stack...
You would win, you can easily check this, shoot two walls once and mine these.
ssilk wrote: But as compromise: the first defected item needs an extra stack. But every other defect item of the same type is put into the same stack and changes the damage of this stack. Example: stack with one wall, 50% damage. Now we add a second wall with 90% damage. The result is a stack with two walls and 70% damage. Now add a third with 82% and the resulting stack is then three walls with 74%. And so on. Practically I would add an item into the stack and add also all damage-points to this stack; avoids inaccuracies.

Can this be cheated?
I could imagine this, but basically, the player is supposed to repair damaged walls with repair packs, not to mine them.

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Re: Version 0.8.0

Post by FreeER »

kovarex wrote:I could imagine this, but basically, the player is supposed to repair damaged walls with repair packs, not to mine them.
Perhaps add a 'global' recipe that takes any damagable item and combines it with the repair kit returning the repaired item and disallow placing damaged items (or have a way to specify that damaged items can not be placed in the entity definition). True the idea is that you can't repair items by picking them up but there needs to be a balance between full repair by mining and filling up your inventory when deconstructing an old outpost that's no longer needed (and you don't have repair kits on you to fix them before deconstruction).

edit: Also some items don't make sense with damage (wood, medical herbs, etc.) unless the damage actually changes something (wood given, amount healed, etc.)
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Re: Version 0.8.0

Post by ssilk »

Hm. Maybe a combination of ideas. The usage of mining damaged stuff is to repair it later. It's just faster when you're in hurry. But on the other side it must hurt a bit to do so. :)

Some ideas:
- stacks for damaged items are smaller. Only a quarter or an eighths. So you can keep only 4-8 damaged walls in a stack.
- I like the idea with the average damage, I think this is fair.
- maybe an auto-heal could be useful: if mined AND you have nothing to craft, AND have repair-packets, the items are repaired automatically.
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Re: Version 0.8.0

Post by Cerus »

I think if you mine a structure that's damaged, it should just break and return some of the raw material.

Simultaneously introducing recycling, balancing the mining of damaged structures during an attack (discouraging it, it always feels cheesy), and removing the damaged stack issue.

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Re: Version 0.8.0

Post by ssilk »

Cerus wrote:I think if you mine a structure that's damaged, it should just break and return some of the raw material.
Simultaneously introducing recycling, balancing the mining of damaged structures during an attack (discouraging it, it always feels cheesy), and removing the damaged stack issue.
Cool idea. That could work..
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Re: Version 0.8.0

Post by LoSboccacc »

does the roboport take raw resources or the finished products? i.e. does it build the assembly machines out of smelted iron&copper?

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Re: Version 0.8.0

Post by kovarex »

LoSboccacc wrote:does the roboport take raw resources or the finished products? i.e. does it build the assembly machines out of smelted iron&copper?
It needs the finished product.

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Re: Version 0.8.0

Post by SilverWarior »

LoSboccacc wrote:does the roboport take raw resources or the finished products? i.e. does it build the assembly machines out of smelted iron&copper?
Roboport takes finished goods. It can't build anything from raw materials. If it would be able to do so it would make all other asembly machines obsolete.

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Re: Version 0.8.0

Post by Grey »

Is there a complete list of what recipes has changed? Would make updating the wiki far more easy. Comparing all the recipes and researches by hand takes a lot of time. If not, it would be nice if you could provide a list with all changes to recipes, researches and new recipes for future releases or bugfixes.

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Re: Version 0.8.0

Post by kovarex »

Grey wrote:Is there a complete list of what recipes has changed? Would make updating the wiki far more easy. Comparing all the recipes and researches by hand takes a lot of time. If not, it would be nice if you could provide a list with all changes to recipes, researches and new recipes for future releases or bugfixes.
The changes are in the wiki, the only recipe that changed is the defender capsule.

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Re: Version 0.8.0

Post by TGS »

Just something I have noticed that might be handy to people who might not know with this update.

The repair packs can actually be used by hand, and are able to be crafted at the start of the game. So yeah, there really should never be too many situations where the 'stack' issue is... an issue. If you end up with a bunch of things in your inventory 'unrepaired' simply place them and repair them by hand. The repair packs are very cheap and work like a dream. Just grab them or select them and right click with them and it will repair just as if you were a robot doing it.

Now that being said, I have noticed a few 'finicky' situations with the repair bots. I'm not sure if it is a bug and I haven't put it as a report "yet" because I haven't been able to accurately reproduce it, but I've noticed there are instances where the construction bots will not repair things. They'll come out of the robo port and just sit there. Sometimes they'll grab a repair pack and just sit there. Seems like if you pick them up, put them back in the roboport that seems to fix whatever hangup they seem to be having. Obviously the whole construction bot/repair/rebuild thing is a WIP. But yeah. When in doubt... keep repair packs on you for repairs. I suppose the main thing is that you should never rely 100% on the bots.

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Re: Version 0.8.0

Post by kovarex »

TGS wrote: suppose the main thing is that you should never rely 100% on the bots.
The goal was the exact opposite :)
If you see situation that behaves wrong, it would be appreciated if you saved the game and posted it in the bug reports section.

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Re: Version 0.8.0

Post by Empty »

Combat except for only using turret is neigh impossible for me now.
Have to only clip some thing with your car while being chased and it's usually an instant death.
Can't target for example the worms because of the biters that keep rushing you.

Map 3 of new hope is impossible to beat without being able to tech up further.

The game is starting to become too much of an action game for me.

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Re: Version 0.8.0

Post by LoSboccacc »

another question on the roboport: does it repair damaged structures or only rebuilds?
does it use repair pack for that?

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Re: Version 0.8.0

Post by FrozenOne »

Yes it repairs and yes it needs repair kits. Just try and discover, better than asking ;)

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Re: Version 0.8.0

Post by TGS »

kovarex wrote:
TGS wrote: suppose the main thing is that you should never rely 100% on the bots.
The goal was the exact opposite :)
If you see situation that behaves wrong, it would be appreciated if you saved the game and posted it in the bug reports section.
Ack sorry, I didn't actually see this post. I will keep an eye out for the situation again and if it happens again I'll definitely save and upload it.

The only time I noticed it happen was in a old save (0.7.5) so it might just be that. But I'll fiddle with it and see if I can reproduce it in a current save.

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