In-depth tutorial on Logic Gates

[Nugetto]

NOTE: I am not making this any more. Too much college work that I completely forgot. My apologies.

I am currently preparing to make an in-depth tutorial on logic gates. I've seen a couple but they seem to lack information, although, they are still useful.

I am wondering if anybody would like an in-depth tutorial with graphics on the screen and a complete run through and such to help the user learn about them? I didn't want to carry on this tutorial when there is no interest in the forum.

I'd like to create in-depth tutorial on lots of things so if you have any suggestions that you'd personally want to see go into more depth, then I'd gladly take a look at making one.

[RoddyVR]

I'd read one on logic gates. I think i know how to set em up and use them, but havent actualy tried doing more then just the very simplest things with them.

Also if you really mean in depth, i'd love to see an analisys of central train station setups.
Too many guides/videos on train stations either build just one station, not the 5 or 6 unload stations that the central base needs, or they build only the loopless two headed train variants, because the mega base builders seem to have decided it was better (which they did before chain signals, and i doubt revisited the question since). The fact that they cut the train throughput (ie how many trains can go through a station in x time) almost in half, by making them back out of the station has got to be a big variable that single direction trains win a lot on.

[Nugetto]

I'd read one on logic gates. I think i know how to set em up and use them, but havent actualy tried doing more then just the very simplest things with them.

Also if you really mean in depth, i'd love to see an analisys of central train station setups.
Too many guides/videos on train stations either build just one station, not the 5 or 6 unload stations that the central base needs, or they build only the loopless two headed train variants, because the mega base builders seem to have decided it was better (which they did before chain signals, and i doubt revisited the question since). The fact that they cut the train throughput (ie how many trains can go through a station in x time) almost in half, by making them back out of the station has got to be a big variable that single direction trains win a lot on.

I was thinking about going in more depth about them so maybe some people may understand easier. I'd definitely write about them, I'll try start one later.

I understand what you mean about the trains and totally agree. I'll have a play about with them later to try find some efficient setups of what you stated. In simpler terms,you basically want an effective way to have multiple looped trains unload at a central location (such as a main base)? This is something I'd be able to make a tutorial on.

[RoddyVR]

I was thinking about going in more depth about them so maybe some people may understand easier. I'd definitely write about them, I'll try start one later.

Looking forward to seeing it.

I understand what you mean about the trains and totally agree. I'll have a play about with them later to try find some efficient setups of what you stated. In simpler terms,you basically want an effective way to have multiple looped trains unload at a central location (such as a main base)? This is something I'd be able to make a tutorial on.

i've built a station line that a few times, but as i'm always looking for good ideas, i keep searching for how others have built them, and every time am saddened at the fact that there isnt a comparison between the two main approaches (two headed trains backing out, and one headed trains looping). You asked for ideas for in depth tutorials and i think this one would be interesting, i'm not sure i'll ever get around to building a test to compare them, so was throwing you the idea.
As i see it, you'd have to build both kinds of main base stations, and then compare them of the differences in:
size on map (loops tend to take more space)
cost of building (extra rails vs extra locomotives)
speed of train throughput (probably by having a long line of trains waiting to enter each station type, and measuring how many trains can unload at each type in a give amount of time). iirc it takes just over 15 secs for a full ore train to unload, so i'd say give each train a 20 sec wait time at the stations, and see how many trains more the one way stations can get through in something like 5 mins.

[Nugetto]

i've built a station line that a few times, but as i'm always looking for good ideas, i keep searching for how others have built them, and every time am saddened at the fact that there isnt a comparison between the two main approaches (two headed trains backing out, and one headed trains looping). You asked for ideas for in depth tutorials and i think this one would be interesting, i'm not sure i'll ever get around to building a test to compare them, so was throwing you the idea.

I was messing around with them earlier and jeez loops do take up a bit of space, nothing a bit of tidying and clearing didn't fix though haha.

As i see it, you'd have to build both kinds of main base stations, and then compare them of the differences in:
size on map (loops tend to take more space)
cost of building (extra rails vs extra locomotives)
speed of train throughput (probably by having a long line of trains waiting to enter each station type, and measuring how many trains can unload at each type in a give amount of time). iirc it takes just over 15 secs for a full ore train to unload, so i'd say give each train a 20 sec wait time at the stations, and see how many trains more the one way stations can get through in something like 5 mins.

These are some very interesting comparisons and such, I'll definitely take these into consideration, cheers for the feedback!

[Kalanndok]

As for one "station" doing all deliveries I have a design. Ok, technically it's one big station with three stops designed as a drive-through with sidings where for example the iron train can wait automatically but will let the copper train pass. However that design is without any combinator logic


http://imgur.com/iE1Hfyb

I'm using dual-headed trains because the pickup stations are only single line (and are only serviced by a single train). However the main station needs a higher throughput. With better signaling I probably could even improve that. Right now a train has to wait in the siding until the train in front of it has stopped or a departing train has left.

For the pickup stations I'm using the single line where trains need to back out again as there are not so tight throughput problems.

[Nugetto]

As for one "station" doing all deliveries I have a design. Ok, technically it's one big station with three stops designed as a drive-through with sidings where for example the iron train can wait automatically but will let the copper train pass. However that design is without any combinator logic


http://imgur.com/iE1Hfyb

I'm using dual-headed trains because the pickup stations are only single line (and are only serviced by a single train). However the main station needs a higher throughput. With better signaling I probably could even improve that. Right now a train has to wait in the siding until the train in front of it has stopped or a departing train has left.

For the pickup stations I'm using the single line where trains need to back out again as there are not so tight throughput problems.

The curved rails at the left of the picture, do you use these only as a buffer to let trains exit the station? I thought using this style of buffer to extract the trains would be useful, not sure how well the concept would work, though.

[Kalanndok]

Actually the bows on the left are the INPUT side. The rail on the north going from east to west is a single input line for copper, iron and coal.


Let me try to explain how they work on a scenario where three trains come in from different mines:
- For convenience I'll enumerate the bows from right to left as WAITING LINE 1 (2, 3, ...).
- First there's a copper train COPPER 1
- Second comes in another copper train COPPER 2
- Third is an iron train IRON 1

COPPER 1 comes in through WAITING LINE 1. It passes straight through to the copper unloading station.
COPPER 2 follows in direct pursuit but as WAITING LINE 1 is still occupied by the rear of COPPER 1 it chooses WAITING LINE 2. There it has to stop at the blue chain signal since COPPER 1 is blocking its route to copper unload.
IRON 1 afterwardsd comes in through the now cleared WAITING LINE 1. Since its route to the iron unload is clear it may pass.
Once COPPER 1 has departed COPPER 2 may leave WAITING LINE 2 and move to copper unload.

Reasoning behind this is that (with the changes to trainstops announced for 0.13) I want to be able to hold a copper train in the unload station until it is empty. With my design I can achieve that and also hold more copper trains returning from the mines automatically without jamming the mainline or the other resource inputs. In the long run this would automatically shutdown the copper mines since their buffers get filled and thereby reduce pollution. Also it prevents a train from burning fuel unnecessarily without me having to worry about switching something on and off manually.

It's not for storage. It rather allows a copper train (let's call it C2) to wait while another copper train (let's call that C1) gets cleared at the unloading station without denying an iron train access to the iron station (unless that is occupied as well).
The chain signals prevent C2 from entering the station unless it can reach its destination. However, since the route to the iron unloading might be clear, an incoming iron train on the second waiting line may pass the blue chain signal to its destination.
When C1 finishes unloading and departs the Copper Unload then the C2 is allowed to enter automatically since the route to its destination is free.

Of course, dedicated stations for each resource might be more throughput-efficient

[Nugetto]

Actually the bows on the left are the INPUT side. The rail on the north going from east to west is a single input line for copper, iron and coal.

Oh I understand, I thought this was the other way around.

COPPER 1 comes in through WAITING LINE 1. It passes straight through to the copper unloading station.
COPPER 2 follows in direct pursuit but as WAITING LINE 1 is still occupied by the rear of COPPER 1 it chooses WAITING LINE 2. There it has to stop at the blue chain signal since COPPER 1 is blocking its route to copper unload.
IRON 1 afterwardsd comes in through the now cleared WAITING LINE 1. Since its route to the iron unload is clear it may pass.
Once COPPER 1 has departed COPPER 2 may leave WAITING LINE 2 and move to copper unload.

This is an interesting concept I'll definitely think about. Is this easily expandable in case you wanted more trains and unload stations?

It's not for storage. It rather allows a copper train (let's call it C2) to wait while another copper train (let's call that C1) gets cleared at the unloading station without denying an iron train access to the iron station (unless that is occupied as well).
The chain signals prevent C2 from entering the station unless it can reach its destination. However, since the route to the iron unloading might be clear, an incoming iron train on the second waiting line may pass the blue chain signal to its destination.
When C1 finishes unloading and departs the Copper Unload then the C2 is allowed to enter automatically since the route to its destination is free.

Of course, dedicated stations for each resource might be more throughput-efficient

I've yet to test the concept of unloading any train at any station and manually sorting it, I think this could be a good test to do that I may try. Using different smart inserters and/or logistic robots to sort the ores and such into different chests. It seems easy enough, it's just if it's efficient or not haha.

[Kalanndok]

More trains is quite easy, you just add more waiting lines to the left it they start to jam.
More unloading stations might be difficult because the longer the line of stations gets the longer a train has to wait to advance.
However there IS room for expansion on the north side of the unload stations where I parked my 1-10-1 FARL/Engineer.
You could instead put more unloading stations there. Might be a challenge to get the belts south though.

You might even make multiple through-lines with north and south unloading stations but you'd probably need to plan that in advance.

Another thing that this design exploits: As trains are shorter in north-south direction than in east-west the waiting line is more space efficient than an east-west-waiting queue.

[Nugetto]

Ohh so it's just a matter of finding space to make the unloading stations.

More unloading stations might be difficult because the longer the line of stations gets the longer a train has to wait to advance.

So it's just one large line of unload stations? Have you ever thought about making the stations go down vertically, but still face the same way they are now? Say they are still facing east when they unload, they are just all in a vertical line instead of horizontal. Could be interesting

[Kalanndok]

Yes, I thought about that but my base grew in a way that made that not possible right now. I'll keep that in mind for my next one though.
What you need to watch out for is how to move the cargo out of the stations after unloading. That might get quite messy through all the train-lanes in a horizontal station setup.