Factorio Speedrun in 3:35:45 - new WR

AntiElitz · Post by **AntiElitz** » Fri Sep 11, 2015 5:36 pm

This is the original post for the 3:45:58 run.
If you were searching for the 3:35:45 WR run, head over to HERE (it's the second page of the topic).
Thanks, Kajanor

I did it - The new World Record is 3:45:58! http://imgur.com/kixxNi7

Link to Reddit (same post): https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comme ... 58_new_wr/

I followed other players speedruns on reddit with interest recently, so i decided to do my own. I hope i can take Factorio Speedruns to the next level with my time! I would really like to see someone to compete with this time, so we can improve further. Personally i think i can still cut of about 30 minutes - and i will try!

Youtube video: https://youtu.be/cCiG-7gLTcg (1080p, HD)

If you like it, i can also do a liverun on twitch the next time, but you have to tell me.

I used the following ruleset: 1Player, any%, peacefull, seeded, v0.12.6

Questions:
- Why do you start a multiplayer game, although you play alone?
The Game won't pause when you open the research tab in MP
- Why aren't you attacked by enemies?
I'm playing with peacefull mode enabled because it allows the best time for an any% run
- Why do you have such big ore fields?
I set the options for the world generator to very low frequency and very high size. I play the vanilla version of the game.
- Which software did you use?
I used OBS for recording and LiveSplit for the timer.

Xterminator · Post by **Xterminator** » Sat Sep 12, 2015 3:21 pm

This is mind blowing! I can't even imagine attempting to beat the game in this amount of time. O.o I will watch the video soon hopefully when I have time so I can see how a speedrun is actually done.

Chuske · Post by **Chuske** » Mon Sep 14, 2015 8:52 pm

This is a fantastic effort, beyond what I thought was possible. I'd been trying to put together a 0.12 speedrun before I saw your post, but I was hopelessly off the pace with 8 hours my best, but I hadn't solved all the design or ordering issues.

I realised after watching your video (thanks to youtube for the x2 speed feature!) that I was on the right lines with some things

Firstly my build order wasn't far off yours, only differences was I was trying to make my speedmodule ones in advance of finishing the silo, hadn't realised that the build rate of speed mod 1 is twice the the RCU and so I could just as well make just the red and green circuits in advance instead which is easier. I did start making solid fuel earlier than you but I don't think it got me any advantage.

Things I wasn't doing well was I was too close to Michael Hendricks 0.11 speedrun in both design and strategy and that was meaning I failed to research fast enough and wasn't prepared also to manufacture all the RCUs, rocket parts and fuel. I also didn't build enough assemblers for the rocket parts. This meant building the rocket was a big time wasting grind, the rocket build and the research to unlock it are the biggest bottlenecks in 0.12 whereas in 0.11 it was the speed and productivity modules that were the big bottleneck.

The biggest error though I now see was trying to stick to efficient designs close to perfect ratios ie for red circuits 16 red circuit assemblers need 2 green circuit and 5 copper cable assemblers. This meant I was saving on assemblers but needing more fiddly builds and more belts, underground belt and splitters compared to you. So you while wasting capacity are saving so much time with easier to remember linear builds. Almost everything was linear in your run, which is an excellent idea which I hadn't seen at all.

So generally I had smaller more complex builds but longer manufacture times.

I do have some questions for you:-

Did you have to do many trial runs to develop your designs and to know how to lay everything out? I can't imagine being able to replicate your run as I'm not sure I could get the placement right as everything seems to fit so well in your build

You say you think you can do it faster, do you think its just a case of the same strategy but just doing everything perfect and faster or do ou think a tweak to your designs will save the time?

When I tried to speedrun one problem I had was keepng track of when I was running low on circuits and gears and then trying to craft stuff and realising I was losing time crafting gears and circuits etc. Did you have a strategy to stock up on these items to save long crafting times?

AntiElitz · Post by **AntiElitz** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 12:28 am

Chuske wrote: This meant I was saving on assemblers but needing more fiddly builds and more belts, underground belt and splitters compared to you. So you while wasting capacity are saving so much time with easier to remember linear builds. Almost everything was linear in your run, which is an excellent idea which I hadn't seen at all.

Yeah, efficiency is totally overerated.
I try to produce everything modular with just one Iron/Copper Bus. The Idea is to produce all intermadiate products locally and put them directly into the next mashine without using a belt. This way you have a very easy design pattern. Also you don't have to use so many inserters and placing Inserters is a very nasty and time intensive task. Even in terms of energy consuption it does not really matter, because the mashines only have a very small drain when not working and you are using less inserters. The only disadvantage is the higher initial cost for the assembling mashines. But they are not too high, and you save resources on less inserters and belts.

Chuske wrote: Did you have to do many trial runs to develop your designs and to know how to lay everything out? I can't imagine being able to replicate your run as I'm not sure I could get the placement right as everything seems to fit so well in your build

First of all i did a lot of math. You want to split your goal in the main basic components you need for finisching your rocket and blue science. So i wrote everything in an exel sheet and came up with the following numbers: 5,1k Science 1/2 - 17k Steel - 25,3k Plastic - 2,8k Battery - 7,3k Advances circuits - 2,3k Smart inserter - 1,3k Processing units - 10,5k Solid Fuel - 200 Red engines - 100 Accumulators - 100 Solar Panels - 1000 Concrete
Secondly i thougth of easy design patterns for each of those components that only use a Copper/Iron Bus and are easy to extend. I invented them on a special testing map. Especially the red and purple circuit patterns are superior imo.
Thirdly i created a timetable based on a 4h run. I defined the sequence order in which the components layouts should be build and estimated the length it takes to build. Than i took the time difference to the finishing point and calculated the needed size of the layouts, so their products finisch just in time.
Next I searched for a good map seed - luckily i found a very good one in the forums fast. I alternated some of the generater options to reduce trees and correct the position of stone and coal.
Finally i played a free game on that map and looked how to place the layouts so they just fit perfectly next to each other and I build the whole final factory once.
After all that work was done I decided to start with my first attempt. It went pretty horrible and i forgot a lot of things. Still i came up with a time of 4:20h and i was really surprised.
My second attampt was 4:02h and that was the point I realized i had to rearrange the patterns on the Map. So after another freegame, attempt #3 and #4 were done with a time of 3:47 and 3:45 which is the publisched one.
To summerize: I didn't took me a lot of runs, but the Pre-work is huge and absolutly important.

Chuske wrote: You say you think you can do it faster, do you think its just a case of the same strategy but just doing everything perfect and faster or do ou think a tweak to your designs will save the time?

With the current strategy i think a can get close to 3:30 with a perfect run. The design of the patterns is nice imo, but the size is not. Currently i am doing the aftermath and compared the estimated timetable with the real times. The result is that they differ up to 20 minutes. That ends up in producing about 150% to 200% of the needed amount of red and purple circuits. With the new times i realized it migth be done in under 3h in a perfect run! So my new timetable is based on a predicted 3h run. Also I rearranged the patterns on the map once more, because they have a different size now and i came up with an even easier total setup then before. So the next WR is ready to come!

Chuske wrote: When I tried to speedrun one problem I had was keepng track of when I was running low on circuits and gears and then trying to craft stuff and realising I was losing time crafting gears and circuits etc. Did you have a strategy to stock up on these items to save long crafting times?

My Red/Green science layout produces all of the important intermediate products. Green circuits and pipes are produced exclusivly for personal use while transport belt, inserters, iron wheels and ofc iron- and copperplates are just being overproduced, so the buffer chest's always stack up some for personal use. All of these products are produced at the same place, so if one of these parts is missing i try to restock at this point. Once there I make sure i put as many task's as possible in the construction que, because the things that are used for these things disappear out of you inventory and you can leave with more things than you can carry normally. After that I make sure a still have 5 stacks of all all the products in my inventory. When I run low on a product I will return once more.

lyallp · Post by **lyallp** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 9:13 am

I downloaded the save.

Freaking awesome. It takes me 3 hours to build an axe, let alone launch a rocket!

Chuske · Post by **Chuske** » Tue Sep 15, 2015 10:39 am

Thanks for your reply AntiElite

AntiElite wrote:
Chuske wrote: This meant I was saving on assemblers but needing more fiddly builds and more belts, underground belt and splitters compared to you. So you while wasting capacity are saving so much time with easier to remember linear builds. Almost everything was linear in your run, which is an excellent idea which I hadn't seen at all.
Yeah, efficiency is totally overerated.
I try to produce everything modular with just one Iron/Copper Bus. The Idea is to produce all intermadiate products locally and put them directly into the next mashine without using a belt. This way you have a very easy design pattern. Also you don't have to use so many inserters and placing Inserters is a very nasty and time intensive task. Even in terms of energy consuption it does not really matter, because the mashines only have a very small drain when not working and you are using less inserters. The only disadvantage is the higher initial cost for the assembling mashines. But they are not too high, and you save resources on less inserters and belts.

Just goes to show how different speedrun thinking is compared to productivity thinking, I'm now a convert to the linear build style

AntiElite wrote:
Chuske wrote: Did you have to do many trial runs to develop your designs and to know how to lay everything out? I can't imagine being able to replicate your run as I'm not sure I could get the placement right as everything seems to fit so well in your build
First of all i did a lot of math. You want to split your goal in the main basic components you need for finisching your rocket and blue science. So i wrote everything in an exel sheet and came up with the following numbers: 5,1k Science 1/2 - 17k Steel - 25,3k Plastic - 2,8k Battery - 7,3k Advances circuits - 2,3k Smart inserter - 1,3k Processing units - 10,5k Solid Fuel - 200 Red engines - 100 Accumulators - 100 Solar Panels - 1000 Concrete
Secondly i thougth of easy design patterns for each of those components that only use a Copper/Iron Bus and are easy to extend. I invented them on a special testing map. Especially the red and purple circuit patterns are superior imo.
Thirdly i created a timetable based on a 4h run. I defined the sequence order in which the components layouts should be build and estimated the length it takes to build. Than i took the time difference to the finishing point and calculated the needed size of the layouts, so their products finisch just in time.
Next I searched for a good map seed - luckily i found a very good one in the forums fast. I alternated some of the generater options to reduce trees and correct the position of stone and coal.
Finally i played a free game on that map and looked how to place the layouts so they just fit perfectly next to each other and I build the whole final factory once.
After all that work was done I decided to start with my first attempt. It went pretty horrible and i forgot a lot of things. Still i came up with a time of 4:20h and i was really surprised.
My second attampt was 4:02h and that was the point I realized i had to rearrange the patterns on the Map. So after another freegame, attempt #3 and #4 were done with a time of 3:47 and 3:45 which is the publisched one.
To summerize: I didn't took me a lot of runs, but the Pre-work is huge and absolutly important.

Yeah I'd done some of the pre-math as I had a sheet of paper with the numbers needed for each product as you have above. As I was still developing designs what I had't got sorted was my build times, I also hadn't found a good map and often had big patches but not near each other, I was always lacking something, your map is just ideal.

I think this speedrunning is an optimisation problem, I'm guessing which you solve already but I'll post my thoughts here for others. For any section of a factory the ideal size of factory S (which is just final product assemblers i.e. for red circuits just the number of red circuit assemblers), can be found if you know your time to get one final output assembler working (with all the mines, furnaces and intermediate factories placed), the total products needed and the rate per assembler

Time t to complete M products at rate r per assembler is then

t = factory build time + factory manufacture time
t = B*S + M/(r*S)

Optimum time occurs when dt/dS =0

dt/dS = B - M/(r*S^2) = 0

Optimum size S = sqrt(M/rB)

So if you were to have a factory with rate r = 3/min and build time B = 2 min per assembler and you need 5k products then the optimum build size is

S = sqrt(5000/2*3) = 29 giving t =115 minutes

If you are a lot slower building with B=5 minutes per assembler then

S = sqrt(5000/5*3) = 18 giving t =182 minutes

This obviously is not perfect as time to build is not always linear with factory size, and you also have to consider all products in the game not just one in isolation but there is an optimum size of factory for speed depending on your building speed.

3trip · Post by **3trip** » Sun Sep 20, 2015 8:18 pm

cool, But i'm wondering, whats the world record for multiplayer?

AntiElitz · Post by **AntiElitz** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 3:58 pm

3trip wrote:cool, But i'm wondering, whats the world record for multiplayer?

It was 4:25:15 with 4 Players. So i beat both, single and multiplayer.

LordFedora · Post by **LordFedora** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 7:46 pm

We're working on taking it back, but classes started a few weeks ago, and our players can't agree on a weekend for running it again, but we're already planning on shooting for 3:20ish

So if you want to beat us in less then a week again you have time to plan

AntiElitz · Post by **AntiElitz** » Mon Sep 21, 2015 10:22 pm

I'm pleased to hear from you, planning a new run! I really am exited. Anyway, I'm planning my next run already. I found some further improvements and I am practicing currently. May the best win!

Are you planning to go live on twitch? I would really appreciate to watch your attempt!

PS: We could also run the game simultaneously and do a liverace.

Ojelle · Post by **Ojelle** » Tue Sep 22, 2015 11:14 am

Could both of you guys post your seeds

You guys talking about this, its tempting to give it a try too ^^ (probably my try will be around 12 hours , if I try at all, but still ^^)
Or is the seed-searching part of the job ^^?

Crash34 · Post by **Crash34** » Tue Sep 22, 2015 1:51 pm

Really good job for this run ! my best is 16h ^^. it makes me wondering if i could make it like you in 4h !
Lot of theory needed here !

the seed is presented at start of the youtube video

AntiElitz · Post by **AntiElitz** » Tue Sep 22, 2015 3:58 pm

Ojelle wrote:Could both of you guys post your seeds
You guys talking about this, its tempting to give it a try too ^^ (probably my try will be around 12 hours , if I try at all, but still ^^)
Or is the seed-searching part of the job ^^?

Yeah you really should give it a try. It's a nice new challange to make the game interesting .And record and post your run, regardless of it's being a new WR or not. That will attract even more people into speedrunning this awesome game

Map string:
>>>AAAMAAYAAQABAQYAAAAEAAAAY29hbAQFBAoAAABjb3BwZXItb3Jl AQUECQAAAGNydWRlLW9pbAEFBAoAAABlbmVteS1iYXNlAwQECAAAAGl yb24tb3JlAQUEBQAAAHN0b25lBAMEn70UaWB7AABMsAAAAAAAAAAAAA AFAbfdMOg=<<<

LordFedora · Post by **LordFedora** » Wed Sep 23, 2015 1:52 pm

We haven't fully decided on a seed quite yet, but it's likely to be some varient on this one

Code: Select all

>>>AAAMAAgAAAABAgYAAAAEAAAAY29hbAEFBAoAAABjb3BwZXItb3Jl
AQUECQAAAGNydWRlLW9pbAMCBAoAAABlbmVteS1iYXNlAgEECAAAAGl
yb24tb3JlAQUEBQAAAHN0b25lAgIEhz/VULQZAAASnQAAAAAAAAAAAA
AEAVN+WVs=<<<

AntiElitz · Post by **AntiElitz** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 1:46 pm

Copy paste from Reddit thread: https://www.reddit.com/r/factorio/comme ... 45_new_wr/

My Liverun this night was successful and got back the WR.

First of all, thank you so much for watching the Livestream. It was my first time streaming on twitch and I never expected over 30 people to watch the run live. That really made me nervous in the beginning, but was a lot of fun for me all in all. One streamer even hosted me (I missed who it was, so thx again for it).
However reading the chat while speedrunning makes me play worse, but it's so much more fun to interact with the community meanwhile. I definitely plan to do some more liveruns in the future.

The run itself was worse than expected, I lost a lot of time in the beginning. I really want this run to get below the 3h mark in future runs and i'm confident I can do this.

Youtube video: https://youtu.be/MRZGgy5g7Qo (1080p, HD)
Twitch Channel: http://www.twitch.tv/antielitz

I used the following ruleset: any% Multiplayer 0.12.x You can find all rules at Speedrun.com: http://www.speedrun.com/Factorio#any_Multiplayer_0.12.x

Questions:

Why do you start a multiplayer game, although you play alone? - The Game won't pause when you open the research tab in MP

Why aren't you attacked by enemies? - I'm playing with peacefull mode enabled because it allows the best time for an any% run

Why do you have such big ore fields? - I set the options for the world generator to very low frequency and very high size. I play the vanilla version of the game.

Which software did you use? - I used OBS for recording and LiveSplit for the timer.

What's your map seed? - ">>>AAAMAAYAAQABAQYAAAAEAAAAY29hbAQFBAoAAABjb3BwZXItb3Jl AQUECQAAAGNydWRlLW9pbAEFBAoAAABlbmVteS1iYXNlAwQECAAAAGl yb24tb3JlAQUEBQAAAHN0b25lBAMEn70UaWB7AABMsAAAAAAAAAAAAA AFAbfdMOg=<<<"

So now it's up to you again /u/rootnegative and /u/LordFedora

Post by **ssilk** » Mon Oct 19, 2015 8:26 pm

Moved from general to the board that was thought for it.

DOSorDIE · Post by **DOSorDIE** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:01 pm

We also make Speedruns (we are 2) ... it take 3:09 on our 4th run.
We make it better and better and save from run to run 20 min.
Analyse the video with our data and corrected our plans.
I think 2:45 is possible with the normal 5/6/12 Science Setup ...

Sir_Francis · Post by **Sir_Francis** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 4:58 pm

Why do you place Steam Engines before the solid fuel producers?

Kayanor · Post by **Kayanor** » Tue Nov 24, 2015 7:03 pm

Merged together with the old WR (3:45:58).
~~Interestingly the posts for the old WR only go over the first page.~~ Forget me

I also added a note on the first post of the merged topic for topic readers to not get confused.

Sir_Francis · Post by **Sir_Francis** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 11:14 pm

Still, though

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