[0.12.x] RSO Discussion thread

[orzelek]

Or if resource field is quite small - then it would have more ore per resource node.

No, I'm getting enough ore in my starting patch to reach all the way to end game - which is when I realised RSO was messed up.

This is what lead to most of the re-balancing - and took me a while to realize that this value varies so heavily that there is no way to do it nicely and make it work for all.
Can you give me the approx ore amount in the patch?

Basically I might need to nerf starting area by half and it will work more or less.

[wahming]

I appear to have ~500k copper ore in starting patch.

[orzelek]

I appear to have ~500k copper ore in starting patch.

Would a separate multiplier for starting area help?
I'd set it to 0,5 by default.

500k is not that much in my game.. but I do use some mods like science cost tweaker.

With current settings even if this number gets reduced you will need to find only one ore patch outside of starting area probably. A lot depends on what are your expectations

[wahming]

I appear to have ~500k copper ore in starting patch.

Would a separate multiplier for starting area help?
I'd set it to 0,5 by default.

500k is not that much in my game.. but I do use some mods like science cost tweaker.

With current settings even if this number gets reduced you will need to find only one ore patch outside of starting area probably. A lot depends on what are your expectations

Do note, this is 500k remaining after I've reached lvl 3 science. No idea how much I've already used previously.

I'm curious though. RSO appeared to be fairly well balanced at some point. What happened to change it? I recall having to go through 3-4 ore patches to reach endgame in a vanilla build.

[orzelek]

I appear to have ~500k copper ore in starting patch.

Would a separate multiplier for starting area help?
I'd set it to 0,5 by default.

500k is not that much in my game.. but I do use some mods like science cost tweaker.

With current settings even if this number gets reduced you will need to find only one ore patch outside of starting area probably. A lot depends on what are your expectations

Do note, this is 500k remaining after I've reached lvl 3 science. No idea how much I've already used previously.

I'm curious though. RSO appeared to be fairly well balanced at some point. What happened to change it? I recall having to go through 3-4 ore patches to reach endgame in a vanilla build.

Different things happened - you'd need to go trough this thread. It's also try to balance it since everyone that comes around has different idea of how it should work

I just posted small update that adds separate multiplier for starting area thats set to 0.5 by default.

I should probably go through the config files and drop the values - altho when generating some new starts with vanilla you can get 2-3 copper ore deposits for example that would net quite a lot of copper.
I haven't seen any good consensus on how much iron/copper/coal/stone you need in starting area - it's mostly my guess work to try and figure that out and it might be seriously off since I usually play with various mods and cost increase on science.

[cpy]

Is it me or ore size variation is relatively zero? You go certain distance and you find ONLY 200k field it does not matter if it's big size or small size. Total amount of that in that distance will be ALWAYS 200k no matter what. Is this because of determinism or ignoring seed? Latest version seems to have WAY less enemies.

[Align]

I'm getting small extremely dense fields instead of the large sprawling fields I'm used to:

Small fields are kind of tedious for mining and ferrying by train, which is why I'm using RSO in the first place, so how do I change it around? /resourceconfigs/vanilla.lua has iron and etc at sizes 15-25.

[jorgenRe]

I'm getting small extremely dense fields instead of the large sprawling fields I'm used to:

Small fields are kind of tedious for mining and ferrying by train, which is why I'm using RSO in the first place, so how do I change it around? /resourceconfigs/vanilla.lua has iron and etc at sizes 15-25.

You should be able to fix this by changing this value under iron-ore in resourceconfigs/vanilla.lua
size={min=15, max=25} and then setting minimum to a little higher, but be aware you basically got the smallest one possible seeing as in the starting area those values are halved !
So i think you dont really need to change it either!

[Align]

Upon testing a bit, it seems the mod now uses the in-game starting options. override_normal_spawn is set to true, but I found ignoreMapGenSettings near the bottom; guess I need to set that to false now, too?

[orzelek]

Two things:
Starting are has only it's richness affected not the size.
In-game starting options are taken into account - normal setting should be same as earlier.

You simply had low end of rng - in starting area size of iron filed is set to 20 - you had very low rng roll there which nets size of about 3/8th of this value.

[Align]

Oh, that wasn't a starting area patch, that's why it annoyed me. Too far to get by belt, too small for a train stop.

[aka13]

I think these small patches are quite interesting to mine. Most of the time you end up lazing rails to a bigger deposit one waz or another, and encounter these small ones. I usually have an 1-wagon-small-patch-collector-train, which is driving slowly between the patches, collecting the resources from them as an addition to my main sources.

[orzelek]

The way in which resources are generated might cause this.

The minimum size is quite small compared to requested size - there were issues earlier with fields getting created as very big with really a lot of ore so I made some fixes to try and limit this. It can result in small and dense fields being created as a side effect.

[cpy]

I still feel that old 0.11 RSO worked better, no matter what i set here, i seem to get strange results. Field size is always same at same distance, no variation. You can't luck out. Not even +-10% nope, if you found 1M copper field at that distance you can be sure that other fields will have exactly 1M at that distance no matter what size they are.

[yeganer]

One big step that came with 0.12.0 was he ability to read the map_gen_settings and it was implemented in RSO. Currently it's all about balancing that impact.

[bigyihsuan]

I may have dun-goofed with my mod world when I fist generated it.

I set Oil to low, very large, and very good, and what ended up happening is that I had to travel halfway around a lake just to get crude to make blue science. This is going to take a while.

[orzelek]

I still feel that old 0.11 RSO worked better, no matter what i set here, i seem to get strange results. Field size is always same at same distance, no variation. You can't luck out. Not even +-10% nope, if you found 1M copper field at that distance you can be sure that other fields will have exactly 1M at that distance no matter what size they are.

Field size has only very small variation.

I did some playing around with gen algorithms but if I remove certain guard that is meant to prevent it from going wild I'm getting 3-4 chunks sized fields. And
there is no need to travel very far to them even. Size factor to distance is specifically set to very small value by default.

Is that kind of size what you are expecting from RSO ?

As for the actual field richness - it's random within certain value range - currently it's richness * 20 to richness * 30 with multiplier based on size.
This richness control is causing a lot of headaches but only other solution is to remove the control over it completely and go back to "certain amount per each node" algorithm that will have set of other complains.

TL;DR - There are a lot of expectations that differ so wildly that any solution tried fails on some points.

[orzelek]

New version is up that should help a bit with tiny field generation and improve amount of ore when traveling further out.

I needed to re-upload it so please grab it again.

[Codec]

I can say that the global_size_mult and size_distance_factor have no effect what so ever. I've tried from 1 to 9,999,999 and everything is still the same size. I've tried making new maps, using /c remote.call("RSO", "regenerate") and /c remote.call("RSO", "regenerate", true). Can anyone confirm that its working? The only way I've been able to tell that is doing anything at all is if i set to 0.1 then regen the ores, things get about 30% smaller then they where on any value large than 1. All I'm looking to do is make ores even rarer but massive in size once you find them. But I cant seem to make them any larger.


Edit: Seems there is a cap of 1.24 for global_size_mult, anything over than that has no effect. size_distance_factor is effected by this as well, you can never have nodes bigger than they would be at 1.24 global size.

[yeganer]

there is a cap on maximum amount per tile. if a tile would exceed 4k i think it would be reduced to a random value between 3 and 4k.