[SA] Only research and biter eggs on Nauvis?

[NineNine]

I'm *only* doing research and producing biter eggs on Nauvis. It's easier producing stuff elsewhere, and I'll never have to move out my defenses on Nauvis again. Am I the only one who does this?

[Premu]

Hm, is it really easier elsewhere for the "basic" science packs on other planets?

The ressources you need are plenty on Nauvis already. They are mostly not infinite, but with large miners and endless mining productivity research that is not a real issue. And you have plenty of building space on Nauvis.

On Vulcanus you have easy access to iron, copper and stone, that's true. But oil products are quite a hassle there, and all those lava fields will limit your expansion initally.

Fulgora will give you some ressources for "free", but initially you're stuck on comparitively small islands, and might struggle with power supply for those as well. On top, the scrap processing will not just produce ressources straight forward. I can image to make some science packs there to exploit some of the available ressources (e.g. red science packs to have some use for all those gears and copper wires), but it's not really easier than doing it on Nauvis directly.

Gleba has also infinite ressources, but you have to deal with spoilage... so I certainly would not call that easier.

And Aquilio - obviously it's not a great place to build anything you can do somewhere else due to all that necessary heat pipes.

[h.q.droid]

I do this too. Though I also produce rocket parts and some ship components for shipbuilding. With efficiency-beaconed biolabs I can eliminate all biters and save their UPS (and that of my defense) for my factory.

Late game oil-from-coal is practically infinite and you have enough foundations and explosives so Vulcanus is the way to go. That said, for quality science the lack of metal ore on Vulcanus does become a liability.

[MeduSalem]

Originally it is also my intention to do this eventually and do nothing else on Nauvis because I cannot be arsed to expand there anymore when on Gleba, Vulcanus, Aquilo etc you can do things pretty much infinitely on the spot without the necessity to expand into the wilderness to grab more resources.

That is if I ever get that far and don't just call Factorio a day for good after finally reaching the shattered planet.

Anyway it makes me feel that they missed the opportunity with 2.0/SA release to make Nauvis more interesting other than biter egg production (which kinda feels rather slapped ontop as a late addition as incentive to keep doing Research on Nauvis instead of also... elsewhere because if they would not have added that I sure would never return to Nauvis and leave it to the biters) with some more things that can only be done on Nauvis infinitely, because the more you gravitate to use the other planets, the more Nauvis gets left behind as barebone with no good purpose. It sure is the starter planet but from mid-to-endgame... mhm. Might as well tear everything down and move it to the other planets. Shame really.

But in a way Fulgora feels in a similar spot for me. Because other than to grind for Holmium and produce the items you are forced to produce on Fulgora (EM SP, EM plants and Recycler) there is no point to do anything there. I usually import all the infrastructure from the space platform rather than setting up a mall. Sure, you could try to make use of all the trash sideproducts... but meh... seems more work than it is useful given that you can infinitely produce everything on said other planets. So to me it is no wonder that some people come up with contraptions to fast-trash all the scrap side-products without having to go through the painful recycler.

[coffee-factorio]

It took me a long time to realize you can also do all your holmium on any planet. People do complain about "How do we handle holmium overflow...", actually if you get enough LDS and have a dedicated station you can ship it to any surface with stone.

It's a tricky thing, it's easy to lose sight of the fact that Nauvis is a very convenient intermediate station between all the planets. The thing that ended up convincing me was ultimately research, a factory that's twice as big on any surface is just not healthy to manage. It took a lot of thinking though.

[MeduSalem]

It took me a long time to realize you can also do all your holmium on any planet. People do complain about "How do we handle holmium overflow...", actually if you get enough LDS and have a dedicated station you can ship it to any surface with stone.

But is that really worth the effort? ^^

When I got to Fulgora first time back last year I still thought from the old Factorio pre-"Space Age" point of view of "try to make everything as resource efficient as possible". Because I was used to the the thought that there is an opportunity cost attached to every piece of resource gathered. So at first I really tried to make more use of all the Fulgora trash.

But, the further I ventured the more it turned out to be a naive thought with Space Age where there is no incentive to be resource efficient at all because stuff can easily be produced infinitely without having to worry about expansion opportunity cost, or because you need to trash loooaaads of stuff on purpose anyway (looking at you Quality) as an intended game mechanic.

It's a tricky thing, it's easy to lose sight of the fact that Nauvis is a very convenient intermediate station between all the planets. The thing that ended up convincing me was ultimately research, a factory that's twice as big on any surface is just not healthy to manage. It took a lot of thinking though.

Apart from the biter egg & research stuff... the unlimited water supply & huge space easily available on Nauvis is its only plus, but the latter loses meaning fast after unlocking cliff explosives or once you filled up the lavalakes on Vulcanus or oil ocean on Fulgora to get the space you needed. ^^

[coffee-factorio]

It took me a long time to realize you can also do all your holmium on any planet. People do complain about "How do we handle holmium overflow...", actually if you get enough LDS and have a dedicated station you can ship it to any surface with stone.

But is that really worth the effort? ^^

When I got to Fulgora first time back last year I still thought from the old Factorio pre-"Space Age" point of view of "try to make everything as resource efficient as possible". Because I was used to the the thought that there is an opportunity cost attached to every piece of resource gathered. So at first I really tried to make more use of all the Fulgora trash.

It's a good question to ask, unfortunately if you remove quality from the equation it's a playstyle choice.

Can I get enough calcite going to hit x ips science and then do some manufacturing on the side? I tried it, and when I saw something that worked for me my 3 ips labs on Vulcanus got decommissioned. Would I still do primary manufacturing on Vulcanus? No, I have space platforms for that. Easier distribution, and the rate-limit on asteroid collection is high enough that it is practical. Modules? Yes-ish, because there's abundant voids for quality. Have to ship pissed off biters once I get to that point, was using Prod.2Legends in the meantime and that was huge.

Those say something about my playstyle but they don't really say much about moving holmium overburden around. You have to have a rocket launch logistic on both end points that can handle it. Vulcanus puts a psychological pressure on launches till you get a railgun, because rocket fuel can be exhausted. I overthink that to the nth degree, I don't think it's rational and even I'm going to drop that fear once I see a drill doing 20 ips individually of coal.

Foundation means I have to ship stuff from Aquilo, instead of just build it. What you say about Vulcanus is still true though, I can dance belts through a lava maze.
Edit: an if I can dance belts; another can probably dance overhead rails or bots.

[MeduSalem]

It's a good question to ask, unfortunately if you remove quality from the equation it's a playstyle choice.

Can I get enough calcite going to hit x ips science and then do some manufacturing on the side? I tried it, and when I saw something that worked for me my 3 ips labs on Vulcanus got decommissioned. Would I still do primary manufacturing on Vulcanus? No, I have space platforms for that. Easier distribution, and the rate-limit on asteroid collection is high enough that it is practical. Modules? Yes-ish, because there's abundant voids for quality. Have to ship pissed off biters once I get to that point, was using Prod.2Legends in the meantime and that was huge.

Those say something about my playstyle but they don't really say much about moving holmium overburden around. You have to have a rocket launch logistic on both end points that can handle it. Vulcanus puts a psychological pressure on launches till you get a railgun, because rocket fuel can be exhausted. I overthink that to the nth degree, I don't think it's rational and even I'm going to drop that fear once I see a drill doing 20 ips individually of coal.

Kinda funny you write that, because you say it is a playstyle decision if one wants to make more of the Fulgora trash, but on the next paragraph you say Vulcanus could also be avoided (except for the metallurgy pack you are forced to do there because it is surface locked) because you can do stuff equally as well on space platforms and avoid rocket launches. ^^

Probably you are right, because I haven't ventured that far as to produce absolutely everything on a space platform. So in the end producing stuff on the space platform turns out to be probably best after all and only pick up stuff from the surfaces you cannot get otherwise in space? ^^

[coffee-factorio]

I'll stick with idea that it is my playstyle. I want to do legendary chemical plants in orbit, in a small workstation because I don't do that many of them? Okay, I see something in my game that justifies my insanity...

Legendary t3 modules? Well, each level takes 4 of the last tier of modules. I need to have big resources next to those. Nauvis and Vulcanus can compete easily. Gleba can work. Fulgora... I need to start shipping. Not my playstyle to like that idea; even if I drop the notion of quality that's true.

As for which one beats the other... that's a judgement call an operator needs to make on their own.

That kind of right tool for the job mentality is going to make me distribute manufacturing everywhere. It also means I have to acknowledge it's my opinion and not a fact.

[MeduSalem]

I'll stick with idea that it is my playstyle. I want to do legendary chemical plants in orbit, in a small workstation because I don't do that many of them? Okay, I see something in my game that justifies my insanity...

Legendary t3 modules? Well, each level takes 4 of the last tier of modules. I need to have big resources next to those. Nauvis and Vulcanus can compete easily. Gleba can work. Fulgora... I need to start shipping. Not my playstyle to like that idea; even if I drop the notion of quality that's true.

I wouldn't call it insanity. By game design one can do everything in space, so why not. Because whether you craft the stuff in space, on Gleba or Vulcanus kinda doesn't matter. You can get the required resources infinitely in all these places.

It is rather a question of what is more convenient and whether you want to scale up the production of an item because then I imagine there sure are limits to how practical it is to do some of the stuff in space. But as said, i have not tried making everything in space yet, so you know more than me, that is why I ask. ^^

Anyway I am sure there could be a list, where given you have all the techs, which location/surface is best to craft each item in the game whether for small scale or for bulk. Like tier list. I would like to see someone make something like that. I would do it myself, but I have not done everything yet. xD

[coffee-factorio]

I wouldn't call it insanity. By game design one can do everything in space, so why not. Because whether you craft the stuff in space, on Gleba or Vulcanus kinda doesn't matter. You can get the required resources infinitely in all these places.

It is rather a question of what is more convenient and whether you want to scale up the production of an item because then I imagine there sure are limits to how practical it is to do some of the stuff in space. But as said, i have not tried making everything in space yet, so you know more than me, that is why I ask. ^^

Anyway I am sure there could be a list, where given you have all the techs, which location/surface is best to craft each item in the game whether for small scale or for bulk. Like tier list. I would like to see someone make something like that. I would do it myself, but I have not done everything yet. xD

I like the idea of tier list. You're right.

Vulcanus is subtly different in my schemes. I actually rank it with Nauvis and Fulgora, because you aren't getting it infinite. You can't go "lava -> ore", it's always bound to calcite and calcite isn't flying in every couple of shot rocks. When you do get that capability, it's 1 calcite for half as much workable output and a puzzle.

A very satisfying puzzle. Rocks go to Pele, always jamming my tank treads motherf...

[MEOWMI]

I've seen bases where people make a small island on a lake, with a landing pad, power infra, nests for eggs and then just labs. It's so small it can fit on a lake pretty comfortably and works extra well if you can find an island somewhere with uranium ore on it. It's a pretty cool concept, though I do find that it's almost more work than just building defenses, unless it's about setting a challenge for yourself. Either way it's completely valid.

[MeduSalem]

Vulcanus is subtly different in my schemes. I actually rank it with Nauvis and Fulgora, because you aren't getting it infinite. You can't go "lava -> ore", it's always bound to calcite and calcite isn't flying in every couple of shot rocks. When you do get that capability, it's 1 calcite for half as much workable output and a puzzle.

But the Calcium issue on Vulcanus is still better than anywhere else in my opinion. In the end you have Calcite directly on the surface and you can slap a miner on top. Unless one sets the resource settings at map generation so low that one runs into issues.

On other planets if you want to use the Foundries you need to import Calcite from space somehow. In my first run when SA came out I imported "some" Foundries to Nauvis and tried to scale some production just to see what the Foundry is like on another planet... and initially it was horribly throughput bottlenecked on Calcite to the point I even had to hook the electric furnaces lines back to the grid. The platforms simply could not keep up with the calcite demand. I figure with high enough infinite research for asteroid mining productivity it would be less an issue. But what do I know, I have not been as far as some other people are. ^^

I've seen bases where people make a small island on a lake, with a landing pad, power infra, nests for eggs and then just labs. It's so small it can fit on a lake pretty comfortably and works extra well if you can find an island somewhere with uranium ore on it. It's a pretty cool concept, though I do find that it's almost more work than just building defenses, unless it's about setting a challenge for yourself. Either way it's completely valid.

I actually considered setting it to an island start for the restart for this reason but then opted against it because I was like "well, what if you gimp around too much before going to space wasting resources and then you are softlocked on the island with sheer endless ocean around." ^^

[Stargateur]

turbo belt should be crafted with uranium #don't_change_my_mind https://mods.factorio.com/mod/TurboBelt