[kovarex] [0.17.47] Crash: "this->reservedSignalsClose[0].signal == signal was not true"

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Acacel
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[kovarex] [0.17.47] Crash: "this->reservedSignalsClose[0].signal == signal was not true"

Post by Acacel » Fri Jun 07, 2019 8:59 pm

Hello,
after the update to 0.17.47 i have found a strange thing:

I looks like the game crashes when the Train (auto mode) reaches a signal, after it drives over a chainsignal that is not working, and maybe some other hardly to reproduce things happen (I was doing some work on the tracks)

after a try I managed to reproduce the crash when I load the autosave and remove the curve on which I stand to the right (failplaced) and then build it where it belongs (the other of the two lanes). Just when you are done with that the train from the upper lane (station) should arrive and drive to the left, over the signal that is not working anymore, and crash the game.

log and save attached.
Attachments
_autosave1.zip
(15.88 MiB) Downloaded 3 times
factorio-dump-current.dmp
(625.53 KiB) Downloaded 2 times
factorio-current.log
(16.19 KiB) Downloaded 4 times

sorenos
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Re: [0.17.47] Crash: "this->reservedSignalsClose[0].signal == signal was not true"

Post by sorenos » Sat Jun 08, 2019 8:14 am

I also got this crash in 17.47.
I happens consistently 3 minutes after loading this save:
https://drive.google.com/open?id=1GVXw7 ... j6TsGONCgw
I don't know what causes it.
The only mod used is: radarplus for rso 0.0.6.

Also, I tried uploading the save to the forum here, but I get an "Error parsing server response".
Attachments
factorio-current.log
(8.18 KiB) Downloaded 8 times
factorio-dump-current.dmp
(682.38 KiB) Downloaded 5 times


eddye
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Re: [0.17.47] Crash: "this->reservedSignalsClose[0].signal == signal was not true"

Post by eddye » Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:18 pm

Hi, same error here.
I was creating a new rail track, put a few train signals (I don't has put signal pair yet) and the game crashed.
It's the first time that game crash in about 120h of gameplay.

Mod list:
https://ibb.co/WtLC7jn

Thanks!
Attachments
_autosave1.zip
(12.69 MiB) Downloaded 3 times
factorio-current.log
(13.14 KiB) Downloaded 7 times

nightfortress
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Re: [0.17.47] Crash: "this->reservedSignalsClose[0].signal == signal was not true"

Post by nightfortress » Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:32 pm

Hey, getting the same error.
Was placing some new track and about to select a signal from inventory when everything froze.
Two trains are passing the junction I was working on, and I may be about to be hit by a train?
Version 0.17.47
Attachments
_autosave3.zip
(22.43 MiB) Downloaded 3 times
mod-list.json
(989 Bytes) Downloaded 7 times
Crash Screen.png
Crash Screen.png (3.22 MiB) Viewed 405 times
factorio-current.log
(19.9 KiB) Downloaded 6 times

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boskid
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Re: [0.17.47] Crash: "this->reservedSignalsClose[0].signal == signal was not true"

Post by boskid » Sat Jun 08, 2019 1:44 pm

Code: Select all

c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-lpvbru\src\rail\train.cpp (1714): Train::resolveRailTransition
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-lpvbru\src\entity\rollingstock.cpp (292): RollingStock::Carriage::moveFrontJointForward
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-lpvbru\src\entity\rollingstock.cpp (366): RollingStock::move
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-lpvbru\src\rail\train.cpp (1953): Train::tryToMove
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-lpvbru\src\rail\train.cpp (1823): Train::move
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-lpvbru\src\rail\train.cpp (1324): Train::updateSpeedAndMove
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-lpvbru\src\rail\train.cpp (1046): Train::update
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-lpvbru\src\rail\trainmanager.cpp (245): TrainManager::update
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-lpvbru\src\map\map.cpp (1498): Map::updateEntities
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-lpvbru\src\game.cpp (201): Game::update
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-lpvbru\src\scenario\scenario.cpp (1216): Scenario::update
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-lpvbru\src\mainloop.cpp (1155): MainLoop::gameUpdateStep
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-lpvbru\src\mainloop.cpp (1022): MainLoop::gameUpdateLoop
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-lpvbru\src\util\workerthread.cpp (42): WorkerThread::loop

Code: Select all

2533.830 Error TrainSignalLogic.cpp:110: this->reservedSignalsClose[0].signal == signal was not true
To reproduce:
1/ Download "train-multireserve-2.zip" (well, it is kind of benchmark, some actions with trains may freeze game for up to 7 seconds)
2/ leave train
3/ move little to the right (like 20 tiles)
4/ build rail segment as in provided screenshot - it will connect two huge rail sections
5/ after 1~2 seconds there is crash
Attachments
reserve-failed.png
reserve-failed.png (2.48 MiB) Viewed 400 times
train-multireserve-2.zip
(1.49 MiB) Downloaded 4 times
factorio-dump-current.dmp
(857.12 KiB) Downloaded 6 times
factorio-current.log
(29.32 KiB) Downloaded 6 times

GoRingo
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Re: [0.17.47] Crash: "this->reservedSignalsClose[0].signal == signal was not true"

Post by GoRingo » Sat Jun 08, 2019 11:20 pm

Hi,

my first crash in Factorio:

Code: Select all

   0.000 2019-06-09 01:12:16; Factorio 0.17.47 (build 45537, win64, alpha)
   0.000 Operating system: Windows 10 (version 1809) 
   0.006 Program arguments: "E:\Games\Factorio_0.17.36\bin\x64\factorio.exe" 
   0.006 Read data path: E:/Games/Factorio_0.17.36/data
   0.006 Write data path: E:/Games/Factorio_0.17.36 [32698/228933MB]
   0.006 Binaries path: E:/Games/Factorio_0.17.36/bin
   0.015 System info: [CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 2600X Six-Core Processor, 12 cores, RAM: 5910/16314 MB, page: 11263/23482 MB, virtual: 4258/134217727 MB, extended virtual: 0 MB]
   0.016 Display options: [FullScreen: 1] [VSync: 1] [UIScale: automatic (100.0%)] [Native DPI: 1] [Screen: 255] [Special: 00] [Lang: cs]
   0.018 Available displays: 2
   0.018  [0]: \\.\DISPLAY1 - NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 {0x80005, [0,0], 2560x1440, 32bit, 144Hz}
   0.019  [2]: \\.\DISPLAY3 - NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080 {0x80001, [2560,0], 1920x1080, 32bit, 60Hz}
   0.057 [Direct3D11] Display: 0, Output: 0, DisplayAdapter: 0, RenderingAdapter: 0; d3dcompiler_47.dll
   0.139 Initialised Direct3D[0]: NVIDIA GeForce RTX 2080; id: 10de-1e87; driver: nvldumdx.dll 26.21.14.3086
   0.139   D3D Feature Level: 11.1, DXGI 1.5+, SwapChain: 3,flip-discard,-,DNW*,-,none
   0.139   [Local Video Memory] Budget: 6808MB, CurrentUsage: 2MB, Reservation: 0/3604MB
   0.139   [Non-Local Vid.Mem.] Budget: 7341MB, CurrentUsage: 0MB, Reservation: 0/3874MB
   0.139   Tiled resources: Tier 2
   0.139   Unified Memory Architecture: No
   0.139   BGR 565 Supported: Yes
   0.139   MaximumFrameLatency: 3, GPUThreadPriority: 0
   0.170 Desktop composition is active.
   0.170 Graphics settings preset: very-high
   0.170   Dedicated video memory size 8010 MB
   0.170 Graphics options: [Graphics quality: high] [Video memory usage: all] [Light scale: 100%] [DXT: high-quality]
   0.170                   [Max load threads: 32] [Max texture size: 0] [Tex.Stream.: 0] [Rotation quality: normal] [Color: 32bit]
   0.200 DSound: Starting _dsound_update thread
   0.200 DSound: Enter _dsound_update; tid=11132
   0.265 Logitech LED Controller initialized.
   0.301 Loading mod settings Bottleneck 0.10.4 (settings.lua)
   0.301 Loading mod settings Fill4Me 0.6.0 (settings.lua)
   0.301 Loading mod settings VehicleSnap 1.17.3 (settings.lua)
   0.301 Loading mod settings bobmining 0.17.3 (settings.lua)
   0.302 Loading mod settings bobwarfare 0.17.7 (settings.lua)
   0.303 Loading mod core 0.0.0 (data.lua)
   0.408 Loading mod base 0.17.47 (data.lua)
   0.637 Loading mod TheFatController 4.0.9 (data.lua)
   0.763 Loading mod AfraidOfTheDark 1.0.23 (data.lua)
   0.891 Loading mod boblibrary 0.17.0 (data.lua)
   1.023 Loading mod Bottleneck 0.10.4 (data.lua)
   1.156 Loading mod FasterStart 0.17.4 (data.lua)
   1.278 Loading mod stdlib 1.0.4 (data.lua)
   1.399 Loading mod VehicleSnap 1.17.3 (data.lua)
   1.521 Loading mod bobmining 0.17.3 (data.lua)
   1.650 Loading mod bobwarfare 0.17.7 (data.lua)
   1.805 Loading mod base 0.17.47 (data-updates.lua)
   1.939 Loading mod AfraidOfTheDark 1.0.23 (data-updates.lua)
   2.071 Loading mod bobmining 0.17.3 (data-updates.lua)
   2.203 Loading mod bobwarfare 0.17.7 (data-updates.lua)
   2.205 Script @__boblibrary__/technology-functions.lua:155: Technology nitrogen-processing does not exist.
   2.338 Loading mod AfraidOfTheDark 1.0.23 (data-final-fixes.lua)
   2.475 Checksum for core: 240630728
   2.475 Checksum of base: 3852333060
   2.475 Checksum of TheFatController: 2729857604
   2.475 Checksum of AfraidOfTheDark: 4053779524
   2.475 Checksum of boblibrary: 1591833824
   2.475 Checksum of Bottleneck: 3138809866
   2.475 Checksum of FasterStart: 3040441678
   2.475 Checksum of Fill4Me: 3404646308
   2.475 Checksum of stdlib: 68667574
   2.475 Checksum of VehicleSnap: 3082759310
   2.475 Checksum of bobmining: 1899912674
   2.475 Checksum of bobwarfare: 3313975453
   2.742 Loading sounds...
   2.787 Info PlayerData.cpp:67: Local player-data.json available, timestamp 1560035248
   2.787 Info PlayerData.cpp:74: Cloud player-data.json unavailable
   2.932 Initial atlas bitmap size is 16384
   2.965 Created atlas bitmap 16384x16384 [none]
   2.969 Created atlas bitmap 16384x11940 [none]
   2.972 Created atlas bitmap 8192x3884 [decal]
   2.973 Created atlas bitmap 16384x4288 [low-object]
   2.973 Created atlas bitmap 8192x3696 [mipmap, linear-minification, linear-magnification, linear-mip-level]
   2.974 Created atlas bitmap 16384x6880 [terrain, mipmap, linear-minification, linear-mip-level]
   2.975 Created atlas bitmap 4096x1600 [smoke, mipmap, linear-minification, linear-magnification]
   2.975 Created atlas bitmap 4096x1792 [icon, not-compressed, mipmap, linear-minification, linear-magnification, linear-mip-level]
   2.975 Created atlas bitmap 2048x256 [icon-background, not-compressed, mipmap, linear-minification, linear-magnification, linear-mip-level, ]
   2.975 Created atlas bitmap 8192x1496 [alpha-mask]
   2.978 Created atlas bitmap 16384x12640 [shadow, linear-magnification, alpha-mask]
   2.978 Created atlas bitmap 8192x2352 [shadow, mipmap, linear-magnification, alpha-mask]
   2.985 Texture processor created (2048). GPU accelerated compression Supported: yes, Enabled: yes/yes. Test passed. YCoCgDXT PSNR: 35.83, BC3 PSNR: 33.82
   3.554 Parallel Sprite Loader initialized (threads: 11)
  10.151 Sprites loaded
  10.206 Generated mipmaps (4) for atlas [3] of size 16384x4288   
  10.228 Generated mipmaps (3) for atlas [4] of size 8192x3696   
  10.272 Generated mipmaps (3) for atlas [5] of size 16384x6880   
  10.283 Generated mipmaps (3) for atlas [6] of size 4096x1600   
  10.294 Generated mipmaps (4) for atlas [7] of size 4096x1792   
  10.305 Generated mipmaps (3) for atlas [11] of size 8192x2352   
  10.306 Custom mipmaps uploaded.
  10.310 Custom inputs active: 8
  10.354 Factorio initialised
  10.372 Info HttpSharedState.cpp:54: Downloading https://updater.factorio.com/updater/get-available-versions?username=GoRingo&token=<private>&apiVersion=2
  11.276 0 packages available to download (experimental updates enabled).
  19.066 Loading map E:\Games\Factorio_0.17.36\saves\_autosave2.zip: 37560508 bytes.
  19.145 Loading level.dat: 87306010 bytes.
  19.150 Info Scenario.cpp:187: Map version 0.17.47-0
  21.207 Loading script.dat: 2127291 bytes.
  21.209 Checksum for script E:/Games/Factorio_0.17.36/temp/currently-playing/control.lua: 1876143224
  21.215 Checksum for script __TheFatController__/control.lua: 2109475847
  21.216 Checksum for script __AfraidOfTheDark__/control.lua: 2322376383
  21.217 Checksum for script __Bottleneck__/control.lua: 303320138
  21.218 Checksum for script __FasterStart__/control.lua: 2229302617
  21.223 Checksum for script __Fill4Me__/control.lua: 89059952
  21.224 Checksum for script __VehicleSnap__/control.lua: 1248096782
  80.268 Info AppManagerStates.cpp:1752: Saving finished
 130.220 Time travel logging:
  22.727 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 73) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 67)
  22.729 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 74) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 67)
  22.731 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 82) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 78)
  22.731 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 83) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 78)
  22.731 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 84) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 78)
  22.732 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 85) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 78)
  22.732 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 87) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 78)
  22.732 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 88) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 78)
  22.733 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 90) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 78)
  22.733 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 94) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 78)
  22.733 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 95) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 78)
  22.733 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 127) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 123)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 185) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 186) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 187) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 188) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 189) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 190) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 191) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 192) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 194) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 195) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 196) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 197) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 198) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 199) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 200) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 201) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 202) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 204) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 205) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 206) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.735 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 207) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.736 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 208) from book (player-index: 0, ID: 209)
  22.736 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 0)
  22.736 Popped blueprint record (player-index: 0, ID: 55)
Factorio crashed. Generating symbolized stacktrace, please wait ...
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-xbypap\libraries\stackwalker\stackwalker.cpp (924): StackWalker::ShowCallstack
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-xbypap\src\util\logger.cpp (383): Logger::writeStacktrace
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-xbypap\src\util\logger.cpp (534): Logger::logStacktrace
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-xbypap\src\util\logging.cpp (96): Logging::logAndAbortOrThrow
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-xbypap\src\util\logging.cpp (90): Logging::logAndAbortOrThrow
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-xbypap\src\rail\train.cpp (1714): Train::resolveRailTransition
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-xbypap\src\entity\rollingstock.cpp (292): RollingStock::Carriage::moveFrontJointForward
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-xbypap\src\entity\rollingstock.cpp (366): RollingStock::move
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-xbypap\src\rail\train.cpp (1953): Train::tryToMove
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-xbypap\src\rail\train.cpp (1823): Train::move
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-xbypap\src\rail\train.cpp (1324): Train::updateSpeedAndMove
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-xbypap\src\rail\train.cpp (1046): Train::update
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-xbypap\src\rail\trainmanager.cpp (245): TrainManager::update
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-xbypap\src\map\map.cpp (1498): Map::updateEntities
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-xbypap\src\game.cpp (201): Game::update
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-xbypap\src\scenario\scenario.cpp (1216): Scenario::update
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-xbypap\src\mainloop.cpp (1155): MainLoop::gameUpdateStep
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-xbypap\src\mainloop.cpp (1022): MainLoop::gameUpdateLoop
c:\cygwin64\tmp\factorio-build-xbypap\src\util\workerthread.cpp (42): WorkerThread::loop
c:\program files (x86)\microsoft visual studio\2017\buildtools\vc\tools\msvc\14.15.26726\include\thr\xthread (230): std::_LaunchPad<std::unique_ptr<std::tuple<void (__cdecl MapGenerationHelper::*)(void),MapGenerationHelper *>,std::default_delete<std::tuple<void (__cdecl MapGenerationHelper::*)(void),MapGenerationHelper *> > > >::_Go
c:\program files (x86)\microsoft visual studio\2017\buildtools\vc\tools\msvc\14.15.26726\include\thr\xthread (209): std::_Pad::_Call_func
minkernel\crts\ucrt\src\appcrt\startup\thread.cpp (115): thread_start<unsigned int (__cdecl*)(void * __ptr64)>
ERROR: SymGetLineFromAddr64, GetLastError: 487 (Address: 00007FF8883A7974)
00007FF8883A7974 (KERNEL32): (filename not available): BaseThreadInitThunk
ERROR: SymGetLineFromAddr64, GetLastError: 487 (Address: 00007FF8884EA271)
00007FF8884EA271 (ntdll): (filename not available): RtlUserThreadStart
Stack trace logging done
 131.597 Error TrainSignalLogic.cpp:110: this->reservedSignalsClose[0].signal == signal was not true
Logger::writeStacktrace skipped.
 131.597 Error CrashHandler.cpp:177: Map tick at moment of crash: 14243686
 131.597 Error Util.cpp:97: Unexpected error occurred. If you're running the latest version of the game you can help us solve the problem by posting the contents of the log file on the Factorio forums.
Please also include the save file(s), any mods you may be using, and any steps you know of to reproduce the crash.
 153.545 Uploading log file
 153.569 Error CrashHandler.cpp:222: Heap validation: success.
 153.569 Creating crash dump.
 153.680 CrashDump success
My save crashes at exact time and moment. Prior to crash I was not doing anything with tracks / trains so I cant track it down.

PurpleTonberry
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Re: [0.17.47] Crash: "this->reservedSignalsClose[0].signal == signal was not true"

Post by PurpleTonberry » Sun Jun 09, 2019 1:20 am

Also just got this crash. I wasn't doing anything noteworthy when it occurred, just running around my base. Happens every time I load this save about 3-4 minutes after loading it.
Attachments
_autosave2.zip
(25.48 MiB) Downloaded 5 times
factorio-dump-current.dmp
(745 KiB) Downloaded 3 times
factorio-current.log
(32.55 KiB) Downloaded 5 times

Concordian
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Re: [0.17.47] Crash: "this->reservedSignalsClose[0].signal == signal was not true"

Post by Concordian » Sun Jun 09, 2019 5:41 am

I've never crashed Factorio before, but crashed with this error twice now over the last 2 days. The first time, I placed a train with a blueprint, and it crashed a minute later. The second time, I did nothing - in fact, I was watching TV while the game ran. It crashed after about 10 minutes of no input.

This error log is from the second time. The autosave is timestamped about 10-15 minutes prior to the crash. I can't seem to attach the autosave here, perhaps too big??
Attachments
factorio-dump-current.dmp
(1.15 MiB) Downloaded 6 times
factorio-current.log
(18.67 KiB) Downloaded 8 times

CliftonFI
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Re: [0.17.47] Crash: "this->reservedSignalsClose[0].signal == signal was not true"

Post by CliftonFI » Sun Jun 09, 2019 9:06 am

Also getting this same error on game crash, happens even without any player input always at the same time (roughly 5 seconds into this save file). Have not built anything in the last 15 minutes leading to the crash.
Attachments
Crash.zip
Save file
(41.89 MiB) Downloaded 6 times
factorio-dump-current.dmp
(758.92 KiB) Downloaded 5 times
factorio-current.log
(26.16 KiB) Downloaded 4 times

kovarex
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Re: [0.17.47] Crash: "this->reservedSignalsClose[0].signal == signal was not true"

Post by kovarex » Mon Jun 10, 2019 10:50 am

Thanks for the report. I fixed few things around the signals and as far as I could tell, the mentioned saves are not crashing anymore.

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Re: [kovarex] [0.17.47] Crash: "this->reservedSignalsClose[0].signal == signal was not true"

Post by vargad » Tue Jun 11, 2019 5:37 pm

I've got a simlar problem:

When using the deconstruction planner to remove rails while an automatic train is approaching - or directly on one of the tiles that are to be removed - the game crashes.

Haven't noticed any malfunctioning traffic lights nearby, though... can anyone reproduce or should I file a new bug report with savegame etc?

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