Better mechanism for hand building over ghosts before robots

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ahydra447
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Better mechanism for hand building over ghosts before robots

Post by ahydra447 »

TL;DR
Allow player, if idling, to delete ghost entities and place ghost entities in reach.
What ?
The new cut/copy/paste feature is ABSOLUTELY WONDERFUL. There is just one small problem - it's available from the very beginning of the game, and indeed has uses from early on (when you start to lay a steam engine or electric mining setup), but can't actually be used practically until you have robots to act on the commands to delete/place entities.

My proposal is to allow the player to do this automatically for ghosts within reach if he is not moving. (You could also restrict to "not currently moving or hand-crafting") So if I cut something and paste it nearby, the player will automatically pick up the entities I cut out and put them at the new location. Of course, you have to have room in your inventory to pick up, and the required items in your inventory to put down. If the player moves, then the action is interrupted.

Could be implemented as a game setting if people don't want their player to do this - in particular, once they have robots they may want the robots to handle everything.
Why ?
QoL improvement - less tedious clicking. Makes better use of the cut/copy/paste feature.
Last edited by Koub on Wed Mar 06, 2019 6:40 am, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: Changed title to specify the issue instead of the solution

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Re: Idling player should delete/place ghosts in reach

Post by Koub »

Very similar to a suggestions the devs have rejected : viewtopic.php?f=71&t=62293
I've also seen it several times within other discussions. Hope that the devs change their mind :)
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Re: Idling player should delete/place ghosts in reach

Post by Ambaire »

Koub wrote:
Thu Feb 28, 2019 10:23 am
Very similar to a suggestions the devs have rejected : viewtopic.php?f=71&t=62293
I've also seen it several times within other discussions. Hope that the devs change their mind :)
Rseding91 wrote:
Tue Aug 28, 2018 7:14 pm
Nefrums wrote:I was hoping for a key to fill in the ghosts, so that you could hold it and drag over lots of different ghosts to fill in all.

Could be as simple as leftckick on a ghost
That's the entire purpose of construction robots. We aren't going to add a functionality to the game which just replaces them in an easier way.
Hm. It wouldn't 'replace construction robots', nor would it be 'easier'. Considering that this feature would be limited range and/or require holding a hotkey while mousing over the ghosts... it would be an extremely limited early game 'version of construction bots', if any comparison would be possible.

Construction bots allow you to remotely build and modify your factory from afar. This idea would never allow that.

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Re: Idling player should delete/place ghosts in reach

Post by SyncViews »

Should be easy enough to mod if there is demand, I knocked up a limited version quickly based on something else I had without any extras. And it only requires a control.lua so I think you could even put it on a server without requiring it be modded.

A version using a selection tool of some sorts would also be possible, as should a shortcut bar toggle or such.
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Re: Idling player should delete/place ghosts in reach

Post by Darinth »

No, it's not going to replace construction robots, but it will absolutely and frequently delay people utilizing them. I'd probably be way less likely myself to utilize construction robots early on if I could just click on ghosts in some fashion to lay them down. I think Wube might have the right idea here.

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Re: Idling player should delete/place ghosts in reach

Post by Koub »

My own suggestion on similar discussions was : not even need for clicking, let any ghost within hand reach to be built either automatically or upon a key press.
And I, too, don't think it would chase too much onto the bots' lands.
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Re: Idling player should delete/place ghosts in reach

Post by Ranakastrasz »

I think there was a mod called BLueBuild which did this. In no way did this make me want to not get robots. The range was small, and I had to not move, and it didn't alert you if you ran out of items to place.... Overall it was a huge improvement when you got your personal roboport. But it made early game blueprinting feasible.
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Re: Idling player should delete/place ghosts in reach

Post by BlueTemplar »

Yes, Koub already linked it.

And it's probably a bit too strong (especially compared to the first bots !),
and to Nanobots,
but might probably be balanced,
for instance adding an equipment inventory to all armors (they don't stack anymore anyway),
and making its speed/range depend on the number of ... lets say "inserters" placed there...

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Re: Idling player should delete/place ghosts in reach

Post by SyncViews »

I polished my code a bit, I think its what people were suggesting. I added one extra restriction, it won't build if enemies are near, so no instant replacement of walls/turrets/etc. in a fight. Should work in multiplayer but didn't get time to test MP during lunch.

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/player-auto-build
auto-build.gif
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Re: Idling player should delete/place ghosts in reach

Post by Koub »

SyncViews wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 12:38 pm
I polished my code a bit, I think its what people were suggesting. I added one extra restriction, it won't build if enemies are near, so no instant replacement of walls/turrets/etc. in a fight. Should work in multiplayer but didn't get time to test MP during lunch.

https://mods.factorio.com/mod/player-auto-build
This looks very promising !
One question though : It seems to have a longer range than hand reach. Am I wrong ? I feel auto-placement should be limited to hand reach when there are no bots, to keep things balanced.

Hope something like this makes it to vanilla :)
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Re: Idling player should delete/place ghosts in reach

Post by SyncViews »

I used `reach_distance` and thinking maybe I should have used `build_distance`, but I think both are 10 tiles unmodded?

Was it a particular object or such you noticed it with?
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Re: Idling player should delete/place ghosts in reach

Post by Koub »

As I said, it was an impression watching the gif : I was just reading and moderating a little, one of my meetings having ended a little earlier than expected :mrgreen:
As long as the "autobuild" only does what you could do by hand, I think it's well balanced.
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Re: Idling player should delete/place ghosts in reach

Post by dood »

There were plans for earlier bots which would solve this but no actions taken to implement it.

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Re: Idling player should delete/place ghosts in reach

Post by SyncViews »

You have to make a lot of stuff earlier. First level bots with solar panels are not great.

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Re: Idling player should delete/place ghosts in reach

Post by BlueTemplar »

SyncViews wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:46 pm
You have to make a lot of stuff earlier. First level bots with solar panels are not great.
0.16 solar panels or 0.17 solar panels?
But yeah, they are still pretty slow at start... This is why BlueBuild is too good !
There's also the Nanobot approach of course, but in the end I rarely use them outside combat, as the cost is pretty steep!

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Re: Idling player should delete/place ghosts in reach

Post by orzelek »

BlueTemplar wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 8:28 pm
SyncViews wrote:
Fri Mar 01, 2019 7:46 pm
You have to make a lot of stuff earlier. First level bots with solar panels are not great.
0.16 solar panels or 0.17 solar panels?
But yeah, they are still pretty slow at start... This is why BlueBuild is too good !
There's also the Nanobot approach of course, but in the end I rarely use them outside combat, as the cost is pretty steep!
Nanobots are neat if you have mod that increase ammo count - like 10x bullets per magazine :D
I need to check out BlueBuild and there is new Auto build mod in works also.

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Re: Idling player should delete/place ghosts in reach

Post by PacifyerGrey »

Long ago (when a pickaxe was still a thing) I have made a similar suggestion
Early game blueprint placement - PACK
I really hope devs will implement some kind of a early game blueprint usage

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Re: Idling player should delete/place ghosts in reach

Post by Two »

I think this would make Blueprints way too powerful. Currently they are already destroying some fun of the game, because once you have a perfect setup you are going to copy/paste it everywhere and rapidly build your factories without any changes from game to game. The only time where that does not happen is the early game, because there you have to place them by hand and therefore might make mistakes.

If players would now build Blueprints right from the start Factorio would become a Blueprint stamping simulator.

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Re: Idling player should delete/place ghosts in reach

Post by steinio »

Two wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 10:51 am
I think this would make Blueprints way too powerful. Currently they are already destroying some fun of the game, because once you have a perfect setup you are going to copy/paste it everywhere and rapidly build your factories without any changes from game to game. The only time where that does not happen is the early game, because there you have to place them by hand and therefore might make mistakes.

If players would now build Blueprints right from the start Factorio would become a Blueprint stamping simulator.
100%

Why should i use expensive construction bots if bluebuilding is possible without them.
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Re: Idling player should delete/place ghosts in reach

Post by Koub »

steinio wrote:
Sun Mar 03, 2019 11:22 am
Why should i use expensive construction bots if bluebuilding is possible without them.
Because of the limitations of the "without bots" stuff, like lower speed, shorter reach ? As long as bots are a significative upgrade, at one time, people will upgrade to bots.
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