[posila] [0.17.1] Flamethrower turret aiming incorrectly

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Acid_Burn9
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[posila] [0.17.1] Flamethrower turret aiming incorrectly

Post by Acid_Burn9 »

Flamethrower tower, until moving enemy is in range, shooting ahead of him, even if the spot its aiming is out of its range. This wont be an issue, but like that it hits wall and turrets near him, basically burning down defense line he should protect.
This is actually very serious issue. Right now any wall with flamethrowers is not capable to defend base.
My wall, what was holding for 50+ hours without even being damaged (except some single events), after 30 minutes in 0.17 already half destroyed itself.
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another example
another example
Снимок экрана (445).png (14.1 MiB) Viewed 8047 times
another example
another example
Снимок экрана (444).png (13.96 MiB) Viewed 8047 times
another example
another example
Снимок экрана (443).png (13.8 MiB) Viewed 8047 times
Flamethrower trying to lead, shoots out of his range and damages laser turrets near him.
Flamethrower trying to lead, shoots out of his range and damages laser turrets near him.
Снимок экрана (442).png (14.89 MiB) Viewed 8047 times
Last edited by Acid_Burn9 on Tue Feb 26, 2019 9:50 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [0.17.0] Flamethrower aiming bug. VERY SERIOUS ISSUE. Any base, defended with wall with flamethrowers is unplayable!

Post by pistols39 »

Just about to post the same issue. There is a new feature for predictive aiming for the flame turret (see patch notes). Seems to be a bit out of sync though.
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Last edited by pistols39 on Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:00 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: [0.17.0] Flamethrower aiming bug. VERY SERIOUS ISSUE. Any base, defended with wall with flamethrowers is unplayable!

Post by Acid_Burn9 »

pistols39 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:59 pm
Just about to post the same issue. There is a new feature for predictive aiming for the flame turret (see patch notes). Seems to be a bit out of sync though.
Yup. This predictive aiming is broken. I recommend not to play at all for now. You have a chance to be completely eaten by biters now. Especially if you have megabase and you cant fix whole wall quickly.

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Re: [0.17.0] Flamethrower aiming bug. VERY SERIOUS ISSUE. Any base, defended with wall with flamethrowers is unplayable!

Post by Acid_Burn9 »

Forgot to mention! There is also very serious issue with that, you dont get an alarm, when flameturret destroys other turrets (cause they werent destroyed by the enemy). So you wont know your wall was fallen, unless you check it yourself! Please, people, be very careful!

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Re: [0.17.1] Flamethrower turret aiming incorrectly

Post by CobaltBlue »

Another confirmation here. Flamethrower essentially resets to a corner for me while firing. However, since I have other turrets in the corner they are constantly destroyed.
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Re: [0.17.0] Flamethrower aiming bug. VERY SERIOUS ISSUE. Any base, defended with wall with flamethrowers is unplayable!

Post by BlueTemplar »

Acid_Burn9 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 8:00 pm
pistols39 wrote:
Tue Feb 26, 2019 7:59 pm
Just about to post the same issue. There is a new feature for predictive aiming for the flame turret (see patch notes). Seems to be a bit out of sync though.
Yup. This predictive aiming is broken. I recommend not to play at all for now. You have a chance to be completely eaten by biters now. Especially if you have megabase and you cant fix whole wall quickly.
Those look like 0.16 designs - why do you expect them to work with 0.17 ?

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Re: [0.17.0] Flamethrower aiming bug. VERY SERIOUS ISSUE. Any base, defended with wall with flamethrowers is unplayable!

Post by Ranakastrasz »

BlueTemplar wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:39 pm

Those look like 0.16 designs - why do you expect them to work with 0.17 ?
Uhm. Because flame turrets have an aiming area, which they are violating and burning the defense line down?
Because flame turret range hasn't changed?

Why would you expect it to NOT work with 0.17?
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Re: [0.17.0] Flamethrower aiming bug. VERY SERIOUS ISSUE. Any base, defended with wall with flamethrowers is unplayable!

Post by Acid_Burn9 »

Ranakastrasz wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:58 pm
BlueTemplar wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 6:39 pm

Those look like 0.16 designs - why do you expect them to work with 0.17 ?
Uhm. Because flame turrets have an aiming area, which they are violating and burning the defense line down?
Because flame turret range hasn't changed?

Why would you expect it to NOT work with 0.17?
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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Flamethrower turret aiming incorrectly

Post by BlueTemplar »

Because they are leading their target now.

I don't see any examples in the above screenshots where they are violating their aiming area ?
(I'm supposing that for the first screenshot it's the turret above the selected one that is responsible for that fire ?)

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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Flamethrower turret aiming incorrectly

Post by Acid_Burn9 »

BlueTemplar wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:22 pm
Because they are leading their target now.

I don't see any examples in the above screenshots where they are violating their aiming area ?
Please tell me how at least one laser turret from my screenshots is in flame turrets range?

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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Flamethrower turret aiming incorrectly

Post by Ranakastrasz »

Ah, I see it now. It leads, but it leads past the wall, thus horrific failure state.
Ok, that is going to be difficult to fix.

Allow manual minimal range? Or expand minimum range significantly?
Have it check the target point for allied units? Sounds expensive to calculate, and I imagine this is why the biters all got acid immunity.

I would say to have it lead up to the point where they run into a wall, but that is just as expensive.

This is "Working as intended", but the "Intended" is definitively a problem.
Acid_Burn9 wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:23 pm
BlueTemplar wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:22 pm
Because they are leading their target now.

I don't see any examples in the above screenshots where they are violating their aiming area ?
Please tell me how at least one laser turret from my screenshots is in flame turrets range?
Look at the second image. IT shows the range, and the flamethrower is aiming precicely at the furthest back corner point, hitting those turrets.
The first image doesn't show the ranges well, but it is clearly the same problem.

-----
In any case, you just need to have flame turrets in the front line, not behind the laser turrets.
But yes, this looks like a violation of common sense issue.
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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Flamethrower turret aiming incorrectly

Post by Acid_Burn9 »

Ranakastrasz wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:26 pm
Ah, I see it now. It leads, but it leads past the wall, thus horrific failure state.
Ok, that is going to be difficult to fix.

Allow manual minimal range? Or expand minimum range significantly?
Have it check the target point for allied units? Sounds expensive to calculate, and I imagine this is why the biters all got acid immunity.

I would say to have it lead up to the point where they run into a wall, but that is just as expensive.

This is "Working as intended", but the "Intended" is definitively a problem.
Acid_Burn9 wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:23 pm
BlueTemplar wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:22 pm
Because they are leading their target now.

I don't see any examples in the above screenshots where they are violating their aiming area ?
Please tell me how at least one laser turret from my screenshots is in flame turrets range?
Look at the second image. IT shows the range, and the flamethrower is aiming precicely at the furthest back corner point, hitting those turrets.
The first image doesn't show the ranges well, but it is clearly the same problem.

-----
In any case, you just need to have flame turrets in the front line, not behind the laser turrets.
But yes, this looks like a violation of common sense issue.
No its not. Check my screenshots. None of my laser turrets are in flame turrets range. None. But they still getting destroyed.

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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Flamethrower turret aiming incorrectly

Post by BlueTemplar »

I don't see why it's an issue ?
Just leave enough space between the turret coverage and non-wall stuff ?
Acid_Burn9 wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:23 pm
BlueTemplar wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:22 pm
Because they are leading their target now.

I don't see any examples in the above screenshots where they are violating their aiming area ?
Please tell me how at least one laser turret from my screenshots is in flame turrets range?
It technically isn't, except fire covers an area.
That's why even in 0.16 you better had to make a 3-spaced wall so as not to get you/your stuff burned :
Image

EDIT : Yes, I know that in 0.17 the second line of my turrets might now burn the first line down.
But this just means that we need to be more careful with their placement ! (And I probably went overkill on that above screenshot anyway...)
Considering how powerful flame turrets are, this doesn't seem to be out of the question?
Last edited by BlueTemplar on Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:35 pm, edited 2 times in total.

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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Flamethrower turret aiming incorrectly

Post by Ranakastrasz »

Acid_Burn9 wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:30 pm

No its not. Check my screenshots. None of my laser turrets are in flame turrets range. None. But they still getting destroyed.
Did you take splash radius into account?

And is the flame stream ever hitting somewhere OUTSIDE the given range?
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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Flamethrower turret aiming incorrectly

Post by Acid_Burn9 »

Ranakastrasz wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:32 pm
Acid_Burn9 wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:30 pm
And is the flame stream ever hitting somewhere OUTSIDE the given range?
YES. Check the 1st screenshot.

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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Flamethrower turret aiming incorrectly

Post by Ranakastrasz »

Yep. I see it. Or at least I see the flame patch, which is close enough.

Absolutely a problem. My guess is, then, that the check for range, that caps it at edge of range, doesn't take either minimum range, or ARC range into account. But that's just a guess.
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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Flamethrower turret aiming incorrectly

Post by BlueTemplar »

Acid_Burn9 wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:34 pm
Ranakastrasz wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:32 pm
Acid_Burn9 wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:30 pm
And is the flame stream ever hitting somewhere OUTSIDE the given range?
YES. Check the 1st screenshot.
BlueTemplar wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:22 pm
(I'm supposing that for the first screenshot it's the turret above the selected one that is responsible for that fire ?)

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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Flamethrower turret aiming incorrectly

Post by Acid_Burn9 »

BlueTemplar wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:36 pm
Acid_Burn9 wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:34 pm
Ranakastrasz wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:32 pm
Acid_Burn9 wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:30 pm
And is the flame stream ever hitting somewhere OUTSIDE the given range?
YES. Check the 1st screenshot.
BlueTemplar wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:22 pm
(I'm supposing that for the first screenshot it's the turret above the selected one that is responsible for that fire ?)
Look at 2nd screenshot. Same place, top turret selected. Some fire is still outside range.

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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Flamethrower turret aiming incorrectly

Post by BlueTemplar »

I don't see it. Please edit your screenshot to highlight it?

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Re: [posila] [0.17.1] Flamethrower turret aiming incorrectly

Post by Acid_Burn9 »

BlueTemplar wrote:
Wed Feb 27, 2019 7:46 pm
I don't see it. Please edit your screenshot to highlight it?

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