[0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Some mods, made by Bob. Basically streaks every Factroio-area.

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[0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by bobingabout » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:07 am

We've been talking about plans for 0.17 a fair bit in the 0.16 topic, which is kind of drowning out when people do talk about 0.16.
So even though 0.17 isn't out yet, here's a place to talk about 0.17, plans and progress.

As you might know, I have source access, and have contributed code to the game this release, I wrote the fluid energy source stuff, so we can make most entities powered by steam/oil.
I've also been slowly updating all my mods for use on 0.17, however progress isn't exactly fast, the fact that updates constantly break my mods means that when I do sit down to do something, I spend most of my time just getting everything working again.

Anyway, Discuss.
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Re: [0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by bobingabout » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:07 am

Patch notes and stuff:

0.17 launch:
ingredient_count removed from all entities.
Removed hardness from resources
fluid fuel powered boilers
Toolbelt technology in base game gives +10 inventory space, mod does the same and adds levels of character inventory space to the end.
adapted to all the changes to fuel values.
Laser turrets now shoot beams
Personal/Vehicle laser defence now shoot beams
Laser rifle now shoots beams
Change artifacts to enabled by default
my artillery projectiles are now true artillery projectiles.
Distillery added 5 levels
Oil boiler's introduced, split the steam power techs up as to not pair boilers with steam engines, or Heat exchangers with steam turbines.
Lots of other shit I didn't take note of.

upgrade planner: next_upgrade=
Belts (and UG and Splitter) done.
Assembling machines (and electronic)
Chemical, mixing and electric furnaces
water and air pumps
Chemical plants
Oil refinery
Power mod's entities, but not poles
Inserters (and stack)
chests
storage tanks
Pumps

Modules 0.17.1:
fixed game breaking crash with productivity filters

clock 0.17.1:
fixed game breaking error

inserters 0.17.1:
Fixed game breaking error when placing with a ghost inserter in hand.

logistics 0.17.1:
Fixed game breaking error when placing with a ghost inserter in hand.

clock 0.17.2:
Added more options
Change button style to match other top bar buttons

Tech 0.17.1:
Science pack cost balance.
Chemical changed to 14 seconds for 2 packs, same recipe.
Logistics now costs 2 brass chests instead of 1 steel chest.
Production science pack now costs assembling machine 2 instead of 3, and chemical plant instead of mining drill.
Utility now costs 6 processing units instead of 2.

All mods updated after this point gain a thumbnail icon

Plates 0.17.1:
Halved the power usage of my burner furnaces to bring them in line with new base game.
Furnace based resource (rubber and glass), metal plate and alloy recipes are now multiples of 3.2 instead of 3.5
change advanced electronics 3 to use production science instead of utility

Logistics 0.17.2:
added pipes for nitinol and copper-tungsten
Change fast replace group of underground pipes to pipe
Fixed belt non-HR graphics out of alignment.
Fixed wrong belts on basic underground belt.
Updated underground belt icons
Reworked inserter technology around fast inserters.
Fixed mining times of belts and pipes
Fixed train wagons and locomotive had no sprite in map view

clock 0.17.3:
Added a new font and option to change it, and colour.

assembly 0.17.1:
Chemical plant 2 speed changed to 1.75 and power consumption 260kW instead of 2 and 300kW to scale better against Chemical plant speed reduction from 1.25 to 1.
Added an option to turn ingredient limits back on
Updated recipes to use Copper tungsten pipe and Nitinol pipe if available.

Warfare 0.17.1:
All laser rifle batteries damage amount fixed.
Adjust exoskeleton equipment tiers

Power 0.17.1:
Locale entry for "enable new steam power" was mislabelled as oil refineries.
Updated recipes to use Copper tungsten pipe and Nitinol pipe if available.

Mining 0.17.1:
scaled up mining drill speeds a little. Regular doubles each level
Updated recipes to use Copper tungsten pipe and Nitinol pipe if available.

Tech 1.17.2:
fix Productivity science pack requirement
changed logistic trash slots technology to use Logistic science pack
Same to personal/vehicle roboport 2
Utility science pack gives 4 items per cycle over 28 seconds

Modules 0.17.2:
balanced technology prerequisites of effect transmission 1 and 3
fixed that Productivity/Speed/Efficiency 2 requires advanced electronics 2 and P/S/E 3 requires production science pack research

Electronics 0.17.1:
change advanced electronics 3 to use production science instead of utility

classes 0.17.1:
Fixed class select would show even when it shouldn't, such as if you were in spectator mode or map editor.
removed old classes to prevent a crash.

ores 0.17.1:
Attempted to use the new ore spawn functions. requires Factorio version 0.17.5 or later.

15/3/19

Assembly 0.17.2:
Converted assembling machines to new pollution.
Converted electronic assembling machines to new pollution
Converted Electronic furnaces to new pollution
Converted chemical plants to new pollution
Converted Electrolysers to new pollution
Converted Oil refineries to new pollution

Mining 0.17.2:
Changed mining drill fluid boxes to allow pass through fluid flow
Converted mining drills to new pollution
Converted pump jacks to new pollution
Converted water miners to new pollution

Plates 0.17.2:
Converted Furnaces to new pollution
converted pumps to new pollution
Converted Distillery to new pollution

Power 0.17.2:
Converted oil power generators to new pollution
Converted oil boilers to new pollution
Converted boilers to new pollution

Logistics 0.17.3:
Removed pump pollution

Classes 0.17.2:
Fixed that the character entity wasn't actually replaced.

21/3/19

Warfare 0.17.2:
Changed ammo stack sizes to 200 to match base game. (Gun, Shotgun, Rocket and Tank ammos)
Removed armor durability

Logistics 0.17.4:
Removed Lubricant from Logistics 3 research.
Updated pipe cost of underground pipes to match tiers.

Revamp 0.17.1:
Changed lubricant prerequisite to include "chemical plant" and removed the unlock from other technologies.
Removed the move of liquid fuel and resin from oil from oil processing to chemical processing 2.

Electronics 0.17.2:
Solder alloy (lead free) recipe always unlocks on Electronics now.

Inserters 0.17.2:
GUI opens on left when you left click an inserter, opening together with base game inserter GUI instead of point to it and press Shift + E

Classes 0.17.3:
Updated class values to reflect 0.17 changes

22/3/19

Inserters 0.17.3:
Added an option to choose if the Inserter configuration GUI opens with Shift + E as of 0.17.1 and older, or with the main GUI as of 0.17.2. Default will be old method.

29/3/19

Logistics 0.17.5:
Added options for fluid wagon and storage tank size base. this is the MK1 size and higher tiers will scale up accordingly.
Logistics 3 now has Logistics 2 as a prerequisite
Adjusted costs of Logistics 2, 3, 4 and 5, costs changing depending on Inserter overhaul being enabled.
Reduced cost of Fluid wagon technology.
Renamed bob-logistics technologies to logistics to fix the Factorio 0.17.23 non-contiguous technology name issue.

Warfare 0.17.3:
Renamed battery-equipment technologies to bob-battery-equipment to fix the Factorio 0.17.23 non-contiguous technology name issue.
Renamed energy-shield-equipment technologies to bob-energy-shield-equipment to fix the Factorio 0.17.23 non-contiguous technology name issue.

Power 0.17.3:
Fixed Factorio 0.17.23 Accumulator technology rename issue.

31/03/19

Logistics 0.17.6:
Renamed worker-robots-storage-4 technologiy to bob-infinite-worker-robots-storage to fix the Factorio 0.17.23 technology name issue when used with Big bags mod.
Added Space science pack technology prerequisite to infinite research.

11/04/19

Enemies 0.17.3:
Changed Bob's spawner enemy spawns to be more in line with new base game.
Bob's nests spawn further out from the starting area.
Spitters and Worms will now target their spit to a position ahead of you and not home like 0.17 base game spit projectiles.
Added option to choose Leviathan spawn frequency (at Evolution Factor 1.0)
Added option to allow harder enemies to spawn at a lower Evolution Factor level
Added option to increase the health of most bob enemies between huge and behemoth
Added option to add a higher tier spawner

12/04/19

Enemies 0.17.4
Fixed crash when health overhaul was enabled and super nest disabled.

22/04/19

Assembly 0.17.3:
Chemical plant power usage reduced from 210kW to 160kW
Assembling machine 3 power usage reduced from 375kW to 210kW
Updated for 0.17.29 pollution method
Updated furnace and oil refinery graphics to HD
Removed upgrade from non-effect technologies
Added colours update option

Electronics 0.17.3:
Added prerequisite of chemical processing and alloy processing to Electronics (for Carbon and Solder)

Inserters 0.17.4:
Removed the option, the GUI now just opens with Shift + E in the center and with the main GUI on the left.

Logistics 0.17.7:
Removed upgrade from non-effect technologies
Renamed bob-infinite-worker-robots-storage technologiy to bob-infinite-worker-robots-storage-1 to make it display a number
Fixed iron underground pipe fast replace (And all other methods such as upgrade planner)
Changed default value of belt speed overhaul speed per level to 15. strange things happen unless you use specific numbers (multiples of 3.75)

Mining 0.17.3:
Added upgrade to steel-axe technology
Removed upgrade from non-effect technologies
Updated for 0.17.29 pollution method

Modules 0.17.3:
Removed upgrade from non-effect technologies

MCI 0.17.3:
Changed cheaper steel energy_required to match 0.17 values
Added new steel alternative recipe in the options, on by default.
Removed upgrade from non-effect technologies
Updated for 0.17.29 pollution method

Power 0.17.4:
Fixed oil generator smoke. It's a bit heavy, but there seems to be a bug where anything less than the current frequency causes it to not show at all.
Updated for 0.17.29 pollution method
Removed upgrade from all technologies

Revamp 0.17.2:
Removed upgrade from chemical plant technology
Changes to satellite recipe now effect space science pack technology (Which unlocks the satellite in 0.17) instead of rocket silo.
Change rocket-fuel-updates.lua to check for what rocket-fuel.lua created instead of what it's looking for, to prevent it tripping up from other non-bob mods.

Vehicle equipment 0.17.1:
Vehicle Roboport no longer draws power. Like personal version.
Removed upgrade from all technologies

Warfare 0.17.4:
Fixed battery-equipment and energy-shield-equipment technologies locale entries
Removed upgrade from non-effect technologies


01/05/2019

Warfare 0.17.5:
updated bob-power-armor-3 prerequisites for 0.17.35 changes

Tech 0.17.3:
updated personal-roboport-equipment-2 for 0.17.35 changes

MCI 0.17.4:
Updated for 0.17.35 player -> character changes

Assembly 0.17.4:
Updated for 0.17.35 player -> character changes

electronics 0.17.4:
Updated for 0.17.35 player -> character changes


02/05/2019:

Classes 0.17.5:
Updated for 0.17.35 player -> character changes

Vehicle equipment 0.17.2
Added allow_robot_dispatch_in_automatic_mode to cargo wagons
Added 4 tiers of roboport and modular roboports for vehicles.


Date: 09. 05. 2019

Equipment 0.17.1:
Added missing beams.


11/05/2019

Logistics 0.17.8:
Added higher tiers of repair packs.
Added "infinite" (max level 10) logistic trash slots research.

Warfare 0.17.6:
Increased my Artillery turret health by 1000.
Remove personal equipment. Moved to it's own mod.
Changed icons of Artillery ammo to make them more obvious, and added them to artillery technologies.
Added plasma turrets, similar to the equipment in Vehicle Equipment mod.


15/05/2019

MCI 0.17.5:
Added Steam and Petroleum gas for gas venting (void) pump
Added sulfur-dioxide to productivity filter list
Fixed order of gears and bearings.
Added Thorium nuclear fuel processing chain.

Power 0.17.5:
Added heatpipe 2 and 3 to heat exchanger technologies to steam power option.
Added nuclear reactor 2 to new nuclear power 2 technology, on it's own option.
Added recipe tweak for the nuclear reactor.
removed MK from all tier numbers.


17/05/2019

Modules 0.17.4:
Removed polluting circuits from module merging technologiy, as no merged modules actually use them.
Added allow_as_intermediate = false to all module combining recipes. This should cause hand crafting a no side effects high end module avoid trying to make the previous tier using the combine recipe.

Electronics 0.17.5:
Added allow_decomposition = false to a few items to avoid confusing entries.
fixed resin from heavy oil chemical plant colours

Revamp 0.17.3:
Added all rocket fuel production chain fluids to productivity filter.
Added Thorium reactor overides

Power 0.17.6:
Updated heatpipe colours on nuclear reactor 2.
Added nuclear-reactor as an ingredient to nuclear-reactor-2

MCI 0.17.6:
Added lead and random result component from nuclear fuel reprocessing recipes.
Added allow_decomposition = false to a lot of key resources. (to avoid confusing entries like it telling you electronics need lithia water)
Edited the centrifuge to use colours set on recipes (the green graphics will default to black if other modded recipes haven't set a colour.)
Side effect, the glow on the centrifuge is always white now, a game update to read colour from recipes on light sources could fix this
Updated steel plate recipe changes in such a way it shouldn't error if steel recipe has been previously removed.

Logistics 0.17.9:
New titanium chest graphics.
Added animated port to the top of the new logistic chests.
Recoloured Robochests and added HR Door animation.
Recoloured the lights on robot charge pads 2 and 3.
Adjusted Logistic zone expander to include an antenna on top instead of a chargepad. It was misleading as it hasn't had a charge pad for a long time.
Included HR Antenna graphics for LZE and LZI.
Added tier colours and HR graphics to the Roboports.


19/05/2019:

vehicle equipment 0.17.3:
fixed laser defence 2 buffer capacity.
Recoloured the lights on robot charge pads 2 and 3.
Fixed that Roboports weren't all supposed to cost steel plates
Fixed science pack replacements when Bobtech Logistic science pack exists.

equipment 0.17.2:
Recoloured the lights on robot charge pads 2 and 3.
Fixed that Roboports weren't all supposed to cost steel plates
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Re: [0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by kingarthur » Tue Jan 15, 2019 9:45 am

Besides the changes to Bob's mods related to base game changes like pick axe is there any other changes to be expected.

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Re: [0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by bobingabout » Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:20 am

Yes. Plenty.

Lets start with the new feature. With the introduction of fluid energy source, Bobpower has added oil boilers. Remembering that a Heat Exchanger is worth 2 of it's tier of Boiler (2x B3 = HE1, 2X B4 = HE2 etc), the Oil (powered) Boiler is worth 1.5 of it's tier of Boiler. it's also set right between Boiler and Heat Exchanger on the tree, so... 1.5x B2 = OB1, 1.5x B3 = OB2 etc. Likewise a steam turbine is worth 2 of it's tier of steam engine, so 2x SE3 = ST1.

Another way of looking at it is that a Boiler MK3 can power 2 Steam Engine MK3, an Oil Boiler MK2 can power 3 Steam Engine MK3 and a Heat Exchanger (MK1) can power 4 Steam Engine MK3.

The tech tree is also going to be split so that you research boilers and steam engines separately, and heat exchangers and steam turbines separately, this allows you to pick whichever branch of the tree you want instead of being forced to research steam engines just because you want boilers, if you intend to instead use steam turbines beyond tier 3.
on that note, nuclear power will only unlock the heat exchanger, not the steam turbine, and will require a boiler MK3 to craft, as such boiler 3 will be a prerequisite.
Steam Turbine will be it's own technology branched off steam engine 3.

There are ideas for Thorium processing and a thorium burning nuclear reactor MK2, but this isn't written yet.


Crude oil has an energy value only because it was requested, however, I will be setting a pollution multiplier (keep forgetting) that is pretty high, maybe 50x, so although you can burn it directly it would be discouraged, you could process it for Heavy oil, Light oil and Petroleum gas that would likely result in more power output and far less pollution. There are some other burnable fluids/gasses in the mods such as Hydrogen, Hydrazine and Liquid fuel.
All fuel values on fluids and solids will need to be rebalanced due to the fuel value nerf in base game, due to boilers no longer having an efficiency of 50%. on top of this all burner fuel efficiency values and power consumptions will also need to be rebalanced.


Another feature of 0.17 is the upgrade planner, which marks specific entities for upgrade. what upgrades into what is defined in game data, so modders control this. I've added a fair few upgrade tags around the place. I'm fairly sure all entities in the power mod were programmed to be upgradable EXCEPT the power poles, however they can still be fast replaced.

And that's it for the power mod, for now.


The Assembly mod had the same upgrade planner treatment, as well as belts and inserters. Some other entities that could be upgradable via the upgrade planner haven't been written yet, but I have made a note that certain things like pumps need looking at.

Transport belts have also seen a buff from 13.33 Items per second per tier to 15 in the base game, so my belt speed overhaul to set things to 10 per tier with an extra tier doesn't make much sense, so I set the "IPS per tier" to be configurable, default value will be 12.5, but you can set it to what you like. 10 or 15 are both good numbers, depending if you want the old nostalgia of the current versions overhaul, or follow the current base game steps.

Seems that's the bulk of my progress so far, everything else has been bugfixing, or working around changes in the base game just to make things work. I've been working on redoing science packs too.
Pickaxes have been removed and replaced with some research to increase player mining speed.


I mentioned the Thorium thing... here is what my notes say for the plan.

Code: Select all

Thorium processing same as Uranium processing... 10 ore for 10 seconds -> 1 T232
19 T232 + 1 U235 + 10 iron plates for 10 seconds -> 10x thorium-fuel-cell (maybe instead of iron make it lead. same for base game fuel)
used-up-thorium-fuel-cell for 10 seconds -> 1x U233
U233 can then be used, possibly with U238 to make more fuel cells.

100 water -> Chemical plant(Or I could add pipes to the centrifuge and use that) -> 99.5 Pure water + 0.5 Semi-heavy water. (which is a generous ratio towards the heavy water, but that's still an excessively small value. You'll be pressed for what to do with all that pure water)
You already know what to do with pure water.
Semi-heavy water -> Electrolysis -> Oxygen + hydrogen-deuteride (in theory it will actually be a mix of Hydrogen, hydrogen-deuteride and Deuterium, values same as pure water electrolysis values)
hydrogen-deuteride (+ Possibly some other intermediate, like sulfuric acid) -> Chemical plant -> Hydrogen + Deuterium.
Deuterium + Oxygen -> Chemical furnace? (Only 1 fluid input, Maybe Chemical plant) -> Heavy water
Heavy water -> Electrolysis -> Oxygen + Deuterium (Reverse process of the above)
I haven't decided what the Deuterium or heavy water should be for yet, but I've wanted to do the cycle for a long time.
Thorium plan also seems incomplete.
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Re: [0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by Tomik » Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:30 am

bobingabout wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:20 am
Transport belts have also seen a buff from 13.33 Items per second per tier to 15 in the base game, so my belt speed overhaul to set things to 10 per tier with an extra tier doesn't make much sense, so I set the "IPS per tier" to be configurable, default value will be 12.5, but you can set it to what you like. 10 or 15 are both good numbers, depending if you want the old nostalgia of the current versions overhaul, or follow the current base game steps.
Wait. I thought the modded belts would go:
Gray: 15
Yellow: 30
Red: 45
Blue: 60
Green: 75
Violet: 90
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Re: [0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by Serenity » Sat Jan 19, 2019 2:11 pm

I thought efficiency was still available to modders. Just hidden at 100% in the base game

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Re: [0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by Light » Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:28 am

Tomik wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:30 am
bobingabout wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:20 am
Transport belts have also seen a buff from 13.33 Items per second per tier to 15 in the base game, so my belt speed overhaul to set things to 10 per tier with an extra tier doesn't make much sense, so I set the "IPS per tier" to be configurable, default value will be 12.5, but you can set it to what you like. 10 or 15 are both good numbers, depending if you want the old nostalgia of the current versions overhaul, or follow the current base game steps.
Wait. I thought the modded belts would go:
Gray: 15
Yellow: 30
Red: 45
Blue: 60
Green: 75
Violet: 90
Soon have to start labeling violet as mach 1. I can't imagine it being safe having items fly that fast on a belt.

Those numbers are also what I expected as well. Although, I couldn't imagine many people using green/violet belts unless you love to go heavy with modules and beacons. Those that do would absolutely love it.

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Re: [0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by orzelek » Sun Jan 20, 2019 11:14 am

Light wrote:
Sun Jan 20, 2019 1:28 am
Tomik wrote:
Sat Jan 19, 2019 8:30 am
bobingabout wrote:
Tue Jan 15, 2019 11:20 am
Transport belts have also seen a buff from 13.33 Items per second per tier to 15 in the base game, so my belt speed overhaul to set things to 10 per tier with an extra tier doesn't make much sense, so I set the "IPS per tier" to be configurable, default value will be 12.5, but you can set it to what you like. 10 or 15 are both good numbers, depending if you want the old nostalgia of the current versions overhaul, or follow the current base game steps.
Wait. I thought the modded belts would go:
Gray: 15
Yellow: 30
Red: 45
Blue: 60
Green: 75
Violet: 90
Soon have to start labeling violet as mach 1. I can't imagine it being safe having items fly that fast on a belt.

Those numbers are also what I expected as well. Although, I couldn't imagine many people using green/violet belts unless you love to go heavy with modules and beacons. Those that do would absolutely love it.
Fastest tiers are for main bus - inserters start to have problems grabbing from those. You build a bus from violet ones and then split out to red/blue.

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Re: [0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by Recon777 » Sun Jan 20, 2019 2:51 pm

What kind of plans do you have for Science and its recipes, considering that this has gotten a pretty significant overhaul in vanilla.

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Re: [0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by bobingabout » Sun Jan 20, 2019 10:23 pm

I'm not going to reply to anyone specific here, just a general response.

by default belt speeds will go from grey, yellow, red, blue, purple, green... 7.5, 15, 30, 45, 60, 75.
if you enable the speed overhaul they will go 12.5, 25, 37.5, 50, 62.5, 75, but you also have a "Belt speed per tier" option set to 12.5.
if you change that to 15, then the belt speeds will go 15, 30, 45, 60, 75, 90.

Keep in mind that a speed of 75 in 0.17 still physically moves on the belt at the same speed as a 66.66 speed belt in 0.16, which is what green belts move at if you don't turn on the speed overhaul, and only 60 if you do. This is because items are 1 pixel closer together in 0.17, and why I chose the numbers that I did.

To note, setting insane speeds doesn't crash the game, I accentually did a multiply by 32 instead of divide by 32 and ended up with an express belt speed 40960ips, which when you step on it instantly teleports you 160 tiles away.
As for inserters, even with these faster values, an ultimate inserter should be able to grab items off an ultimate belt. How do I know this? back during the overhauls, I did experiments to see just what inserters could grab items from what belts, my findings was that basically, an inserter can grab from a belt of the next tier up, so a fast inserter could grab items of an express belt with no issues.


Science overhaul, there is one, but it's not exactly balanced in it's current state, and after removing the flying robot frame from utility science, I'm a bit stuck as to what to replace it with that's high-tech enough to make sense.
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Re: [0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by DawnbringerHUN » Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:23 am

Hey Bob!

I like the idea of the oil boilers, we always make dirty energy :twisted:

What's up with compressor and Pump? Their box is 2x2 but the model looks like a 2x1
https://imgur.com/a/5jffu5A

What is the rate for the different MK boilers-steam engines? 1:20:40 (offshore-boiler-steam engine) is looks like working for MK1 and 2.

What's your plan with pickaxe removal? Will we get the upgraded mining speeds (like cobalt) after researching the tech?

Do you plan to add some kind of Trash can? (a container which deletes the items placed in)

Do you plan to add some kind of loaders? (Like Deadlock's compact ones)

Do you plan to add new ores? (0.17 and beyond)

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Re: [0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by bobingabout » Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:02 pm

DawnbringerHUN wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:23 am
What's up with compressor and Pump? Their box is 2x2 but the model looks like a 2x1
https://imgur.com/a/5jffu5A
Don't worry, I'm working on new graphics.
DawnbringerHUN wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:23 am
What is the rate for the different MK boilers-steam engines? 1:20:40 (offshore-boiler-steam engine) is looks like working for MK1 and 2.
Basically the same, the difference is the temperature of the steam.
DawnbringerHUN wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:23 am
What's your plan with pickaxe removal? Will we get the upgraded mining speeds (like cobalt) after researching the tech?
Replacing it with a technology that increases mining speed.
DawnbringerHUN wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:23 am
Do you plan to add some kind of Trash can? (a container which deletes the items placed in)
No, but there are existing mods out there that add things like this.
DawnbringerHUN wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:23 am
Do you plan to add some kind of loaders? (Like Deadlock's compact ones)
no, most loader mods add in bob's mods additional tiers, so with all this 3rd party support, I didn't feel it necessary to do it myself.
DawnbringerHUN wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:23 am
Do you plan to add new ores? (0.17 and beyond)
Nothing currently planned.
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Re: [0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by DawnbringerHUN » Wed Jan 23, 2019 2:25 am

bobingabout wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 12:02 pm
DawnbringerHUN wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:23 am
What's up with compressor and Pump? Their box is 2x2 but the model looks like a 2x1
https://imgur.com/a/5jffu5A
Don't worry, I'm working on new graphics.
DawnbringerHUN wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:23 am
What is the rate for the different MK boilers-steam engines? 1:20:40 (offshore-boiler-steam engine) is looks like working for MK1 and 2.
Basically the same, the difference is the temperature of the steam.
DawnbringerHUN wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:23 am
What's your plan with pickaxe removal? Will we get the upgraded mining speeds (like cobalt) after researching the tech?
Replacing it with a technology that increases mining speed.
DawnbringerHUN wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:23 am
Do you plan to add some kind of Trash can? (a container which deletes the items placed in)
No, but there are existing mods out there that add things like this.
DawnbringerHUN wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:23 am
Do you plan to add some kind of loaders? (Like Deadlock's compact ones)
no, most loader mods add in bob's mods additional tiers, so with all this 3rd party support, I didn't feel it necessary to do it myself.
DawnbringerHUN wrote:
Tue Jan 22, 2019 11:23 am
Do you plan to add new ores? (0.17 and beyond)
Nothing currently planned.
Thanks for your answers, and for your awesome mods. ;)

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Re: [0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by bobingabout » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:11 pm

With the recent changes to science packs, as shown in FFF 275, I've been thinking back to a suggestion that someone once made that I rejected many years ago.
This suggestion was given to me back when the only science packs were 1, 2, 3 and Alien.

The suggestion was basically to pick different trees, Logistic, Automation, Production, Military etc, and make a science pack 1, 2 3 and 4 for each of them.
Given that currently in 0.16 we have what is effectively science packs 1, 2, 3 and high tech being 5, with military, production and with bob's mods, Logistics, plus space for infinite, and also alien based science packs, I'm reconsidering this suggestion.

what I'm considering, and this is mostly just thinking at the moment, is a system something like...
Materials:
Science pack 1 would just be a materials pack, Stone, Iron plate and Copper plate. Assuming you have bob's plates installed, maybe also Tin.
Science pack 2 would be Lead, Steel, Bronze, maybe Glass too. Obviously we can't really have a 2nd tier without bob's mods here.
Science pack 3 would start to include resources where you have to venture out of your starting area. Aluminium, Brass (or straight up Zinc), Nickel, Cobalt. could also include non-ores like Plastic.
Science pack 4 could include Titanium, Tungsten, and Ceramic.

I've mostly listed raw materials, but it could also include intermediates, like electronic circuits, engine units and stuff.
Science pack 3 in new 0.17 is chemical, featuring solid fuel, engine unit and a circuit. Throw in some new material like Aluminium (my existing SP3 includes bronze) and this is quite fitting.

Logistics:
Starting at science pack 2. probably not much different than existing science pack 2, a belt, an inserter.
Science pack 3 would keep the inserter and belt tradition, depending what's available with logistics mod or not. Probably red belt and a red inserter, steel chest, perhaps a flying robot frame.
Science pack 4, basically existing bob's mods logistic science pack level. Blue inserter and belt, higher tier flying robot frame, logistic chest of some kind.

other items to think about could be rails, Pipes, storage tanks. Vehicles would be pushing it a but far to be honest.

Military:
Not much thought here yet either, but again starting at science pack 2.
Could include things like guns, ammo, robots, Walls, Turrets...
Could also be more dependant on alien artifacts.

Production science:
Again I've not put much thought into what exactly would be in each pack yet, but like everything except Materials, start at level 2 and go to level 4.
Would likely include things like buildings, assembling machines, furnaces etc. Could also include some modules.

High Tech / Utility science pack:
Could keep a unified SP5, or split it into each group.

Space science will remain for infinite research, possibly alternate versions for Logistics, Production and Military.


Layout
That's a lot of science packs to try and squeeze into one lab, so if you look at my alien lab, it doesn't even try. currently gold science is science packs 1+2+3 fused together.
Lets ditch the whole "this is tech 4, so you need production science and all the packs that came before it" method. It's tier 4, it should cost science packs in the 3 and 4 range, not below.
As such, "Lab" would only include science packs 1 and 2 from all branches. additionally there'd be higher tier labs for 2-3, 3-4, and 4-5, you will need to upgrade your labs in order to research higher tier things, but also not replace them entirely in case you need to come back to that one research you missed.
Of course you could keep the "Lab" around for legacy and external mod support.



These are my thoughts so far. what do you think?
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.

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Re: [0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by orzelek » Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:57 pm

Sounds really interesting.
I see where it could get tricky to play around with what would end up as lots of science packs.
Would end up at what... like 12 of them total?
I think space science with potentially diffrent variants depending what you send in the rocket would be nice.

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Re: [0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by bobingabout » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:21 pm

orzelek wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:57 pm
Sounds really interesting.
I see where it could get tricky to play around with what would end up as lots of science packs.
Would end up at what... like 12 of them total?
I think space science with potentially diffrent variants depending what you send in the rocket would be nice.
My plan there lists 15.
4 for material, 3 each for logistic, production and military, High tech/Utility and Space. Potentially more if you include high tech and space being split up too.
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.

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Re: [0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by Light » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:35 pm

bobingabout wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:11 pm
These are my thoughts so far. what do you think?
This sounds like a remarkable pain in the ass, while also conflicting with pretty much every mod that uses many packs per lab.

Having multiple lab areas to handle a few select techs sounds like a chore and not worth building towards, especially with the base labs comprising the majority of all base game and non-Bob mod techs. Assuming there are good techs to be obtained, you'd create a temporary lab setup for the research then instantly tear it down once it's done, only to never be used again. That's rather counterproductive and time wasting compared to a proper lab setup that's useful and can be upgraded over the entire course of the game.

Multiple pack tiers also seem redundant and can even soft-lock you by preventing you from researching ahead for better recipes. Even though you may lack the materials to create the structures, the recipes from a tech could help you better prepare for advanced materials in the near future. Tier packs undermine that by forcing you to halt advancement until you get that material first, when a recipe further down the tree could have been very useful but now has come too late.

I could be off the mark on how you're viewing the process, but I simply dread the idea of having to constantly fuss around with such a core gameplay element just to get something simple done.

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Re: [0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by mexmer » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:57 pm

Light wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:35 pm
bobingabout wrote:
Mon Jan 28, 2019 7:11 pm
These are my thoughts so far. what do you think?
This sounds like a remarkable pain in the ass, while also conflicting with pretty much every mod that uses many packs per lab.

Having multiple lab areas to handle a few select techs sounds like a chore and not worth building towards, especially with the base labs comprising the majority of all base game and non-Bob mod techs. Assuming there are good techs to be obtained, you'd create a temporary lab setup for the research then instantly tear it down once it's done, only to never be used again. That's rather counterproductive and time wasting compared to a proper lab setup that's useful and can be upgraded over the entire course of the game.

Multiple pack tiers also seem redundant and can even soft-lock you by preventing you from researching ahead for better recipes. Even though you may lack the materials to create the structures, the recipes from a tech could help you better prepare for advanced materials in the near future. Tier packs undermine that by forcing you to halt advancement until you get that material first, when a recipe further down the tree could have been very useful but now has come too late.

I could be off the mark on how you're viewing the process, but I simply dread the idea of having to constantly fuss around with such a core gameplay element just to get something simple done.
there is not much to add to this.

except i hate increasing science pack count in general, unless it adds some unique technology branch (like alien packs for ammo). and tiering science packs in each respective category, particulary because you might want to progress at different pace in different branches.

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Re: [0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by anorganicbear » Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:28 am

I don't see any discussion here yet of the assembler complexity limit being dropped. I know I saw some discussion on that in the other thread. Are there any plans solidified yet as far as whether you'll be keeping the item limits?

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Re: [0.17.x] Bob's Mods: General Discussion

Post by bobingabout » Fri Feb 01, 2019 9:04 am

anorganicbear wrote:
Fri Feb 01, 2019 8:28 am
I don't see any discussion here yet of the assembler complexity limit being dropped. I know I saw some discussion on that in the other thread. Are there any plans solidified yet as far as whether you'll be keeping the item limits?
I have already stated somewhere in the 0.16 general discussion thread that I have already removed all ingredient count limits from all machines in my mod. I currently have no plans to add any back in, but it has been suggested that I make it an option in the settings.
Creator of Bob's mods. Expanding your gameplay since version 0.9.8.

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