Expansion hype thread - Any updates on when/if there will be an expansion?

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astroshak
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Re: When will the new DLC be released?

Post by astroshak »

pointa2b wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 4:01 pm
FFF 368 wrote:Work on the expansion is still the top priority for the team, and controller support is no easy task, so if it comes to Factorio, expect it much later this year.
"Sometime this year" is a reasonable deduction from the above snippet. And given controller support would take time for development/testing, that might mean the expansion release is August-October.
Actually, the reasonable deduction from that snippet is “maybe late this year, maybe sometime next year”.

You missed two key components of that snippet : *if it comes* and *much later* …

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Re: When will the new DLC be released?

Post by pointa2b »

astroshak wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 5:36 pm
pointa2b wrote:
Sun Mar 20, 2022 4:01 pm
FFF 368 wrote:Work on the expansion is still the top priority for the team, and controller support is no easy task, so if it comes to Factorio, expect it much later this year.
"Sometime this year" is a reasonable deduction from the above snippet. And given controller support would take time for development/testing, that might mean the expansion release is August-October.
Actually, the reasonable deduction from that snippet is “maybe late this year, maybe sometime next year”.

You missed two key components of that snippet : *if it comes* and *much later* …
You aren't understanding what I'm saying. Whether controller support comes or not is irrelevant. It is the fact if it happens, it will be much later in the year. Couple that with the statement that the expansion is their top priority, perhaps meaning it won't be a focus until the expansion is complete. Much later in the year could reasonably mean November-December. Which leads to my earlier statement- "And given controller support would take time for development/testing, that might mean the expansion release is August-October."

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Re: When will the new DLC be released?

Post by FuryoftheStars »

It should be noted that by saying the expansion has top priority, it doesn't necessarily mean the controller support gets none. It's still possible that they may get the controller support done before they finish the expansion.

Obviously, I'd hope for the expansion being done sooner than later, but I'm just saying that you can't with any level of assurance say when the expansion will be done by that comment they made.
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Re: When will the new DLC be released?

Post by pointa2b »

You're right, its fun to guess with sparse data points. We'll see what happens. 8-)

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A pinned "release" post for the upcoming DLC

Post by i-make-robots »

It's been over two months since the announcement. It would be nice if there was a pinned item in the Releases category with any and all info on the upcoming DLC. In a perfect world it would be updated once a week with something - old placeholder art, a "we're still alive" notice, something.

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Re: A pinned "release" post for the upcoming DLC

Post by ssilk »

moved from suggestions to general

That’s what’s the “News”-board is thought for. After release of 1.0 wube was not longer bound to the promise they gave in 2013 to inform the community every week.

And it would make things easier, if the news-board was not taken over with thousands of post about the war (= should be moved to off-topic board, but we webmasters do not moderate that thread).

Edit: And I know how much time and tears went in the Friday Facts blog posts, and how releasing it must feel when this wasn’t needed anymore, but I think it’s in the most important interest of wube, to inform the community regularly . Regularly doesn’t mean every week. I think it would be something like every six to eight weeks or so. Regularly. Because the most annoying thing is, when someone that is interested in this game doesn’t know when to await the next news.
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Re: A pinned "release" post for the upcoming DLC

Post by grandexar »

It would be nice to see an update post every month, but I'll wait patiently. I know Wube is making a good expansion and I can't wait to buy it and play!

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Re: A pinned "release" post for the upcoming DLC

Post by MariaTorphy365 »

That is the purpose of the "News" board. after the 1.0 wube release. blockpost

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Why are you guys so pressed?

Post by GBrayJ »

Why is everyone so angry at the devs for taking a long time for the expansion?
You haven't paid for it, so what the issue?
They're trying to deliver a quality product, and not a cash grab or glitchy expansion.

Can you guys stop getting on the devs ass and just let them develop the game in peace?
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ssilk
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Re: Why are you guys so pressed?

Post by ssilk »

I would mean it’s not the long time they need, that’s o.k., it’s that the community doesn’t know what they’re doing.

I need to explain.

Factorio was developed very open. We had the blog post every week (FFF), and some features had been changed, cancelled or rewrote due the reactions from there. Not every reaction has been taken (e.g. not binary splittable slot sizes). But the feedback from the community prevented some mistakes. That was a very agile type of development and resulted in much better product quality than developing it all secretly and making a big boom release in the end.

In my eyes (viewing from an agile perspective in which I develop software since over 15 years now), big boom is an anti-pattern. And I think many other players here know that intuitively. That’s why they might been “angry”.

Not saying wube needs to tell us the exact plans, not saying wube needs to post every week. In their own interests they should post regularly (every 4-8 weeks) how the things are standing. The more often, the more feedback. It’s a lot of extra work to handle this feedback, but it’s worth it.
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Re: Why are you guys so pressed?

Post by posila »

ssilk wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:22 am
The more often, the more feedback. It’s a lot of extra work to handle this feedback, but it’s worth it.
I feel scarred for life from responses to some changes ... 0.17 oil change, color correction pass on sprites and removal of pick axe come to my mind immediatelly. But there was more, I think. There is definitelly some resentment burnt into my soul :( I still think all of those were positive changes for the game. And there definitelly were many cases where the community feedback stopped us from doing something bad or stupid (and I don't remember any specific example.) I miss the feedback but I am also glad there is none at this stage of the development. Feedback from team members seems just about right amount to me right now.

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Re: Why are you guys so pressed?

Post by Tertius »

I hope you have game testers that replace the public crowd from initial development that continue to tell you if you're doing "bad or stupid". Not only professional game testers (they often don't really care about a game but only about their given task on paper) but also ordinary players who play the game just for entertainment, because for us players, the entertainment value is the most important property of any game.

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Re: Why are you guys so pressed?

Post by aka13 »

posila wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:51 am
ssilk wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 6:22 am
The more often, the more feedback. It’s a lot of extra work to handle this feedback, but it’s worth it.
I feel scarred for life from responses to some changes ... 0.17 oil change, color correction pass on sprites and removal of pick axe come to my mind immediatelly. But there was more, I think. There is definitelly some resentment burnt into my soul :( I still think all of those were positive changes for the game. And there definitelly were many cases where the community feedback stopped us from doing something bad or stupid (and I don't remember any specific example.) I miss the feedback but I am also glad there is none at this stage of the development. Feedback from team members seems just about right amount to me right now.
Haha, oh boy, I also remember the whole bot-belts thing, it was even bigger than the oil, as far as I can remember.
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Re: Why are you guys so pressed?

Post by JimBarracus »

Removing split fluid wagons also broke some designs.

I actually miss the old steam boilers.

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Re: Why are you guys so pressed?

Post by jodokus31 »

GBrayJ wrote:
Tue Oct 18, 2022 5:01 pm
Why is everyone so angry at the devs for taking a long time for the expansion?
You haven't paid for it, so what the issue?
They're trying to deliver a quality product, and not a cash grab or glitchy expansion.

Can you guys stop getting on the devs ass and just let them develop the game in peace?
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Not sure, who is "everybody". At least in my perception, everything seems quite fine.
Might be, that the seablock community is just a bit more chill and friendly

Whatever, I think, I would be cool the get some insight in the current development. I'm really curios what the devs are going to do, what modding community hasn't be able to, yet. In which direction it goes

The oil disaster was quite heavy. Never experienced such toxicity before and after.

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Re: Why are you guys so pressed?

Post by ssilk »

posila wrote:
Tue Oct 25, 2022 8:51 am
I feel scarred for life from responses to some changes ... 0.17 oil change, color correction pass on sprites and removal of pick axe come to my mind immediatelly. But there was more, I think. There is definitelly some resentment burnt into my soul :( I still think all of those were positive changes for the game. And there definitelly were many cases where the community feedback stopped us from doing something bad or stupid (and I don't remember any specific example.) I miss the feedback but I am also glad there is none at this stage of the development. Feedback from team members seems just about right amount to me right now.
I exactly know what you mean. Response from the customers is sometimes … enervating. For example in my last project there was the big question, how do the customers edit hundreds of datasets (configurations of solar plants). Each dataset contains many dozens or hundreds of values. They made a very logic suggestion: let’s use CSV-files. They made it, because they where accustomed to Excel - because of 10 years they lived with bad software design. I said we’re in the 21st century and things have changed a lot, but they (and especially the product owner, who also insisted to this idea, because he didn’t know it better), and so we added an editor to the program, where you could paste the CSV, edit the lines (with over 1000 characters) and added even an inline validator. It took us nearly two month of the project to implement all of that stupidity. Luckily we worked in the background on a process, to get all that data from the original sources and cumulate it to a consistent configuration. The result was, that the CSV-editor needs to be removed, which took another 2 weeks.

And the points I want to make with this example are
- it is super important to hear what customers need, what they like and what they hate.
- but that shouldn’t be collected by the developers
- instead there is a role (often known as the product owner) who collects those suggestions, handles the conversation with the customers and devs, filters out bad ideas or changes them into good ones and when ready presents the result.

I don’t see that role at wube. Maybe it’s there, but deep in background. Instead I see only developers talking to us (the customers) and it’s clear that this is enervating. I would hate that part also, because it’s a bad job to make things where you exactly know, that this is the best solution that’s possible, and then you need to change the role and present your idea and handle all the critics. This job must be done by someone, who isn’t so deep involved into the implementation.

My favorite picture to show this problem and why it hurts so much is the famous comic
Image
randomly chooses from this blog
The developers are the pigs, they are committed, it really hurts them to present their work and get only bad feedback. But a product owner is only involved. He could handle this kind of user feedback and is the filter you need as devs to not be so scared about the needs of your customers.
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Re: Why are you guys so pressed?

Post by FunMaker »

I would like to see regular FFFs again. But that is my perspective as a player. On the other hand i see, that writing these and working with the responses of the community is a rollercoaster on its own and including these in the development process.
But there is one thing that Wube should consider: The Hype of the community is gone for now. In the last couple of months i recognized a massive stall of community activity on the forums. And if you want to keep being in the minds of the players, you should tease the community. I know factorio is a kind of a niche game that does not attract everyone walking by and most dedicated players will return if news will show up in 1-2 years. But teasing the community (even with technical stuff) would keep the interest in the game much higher.

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Re: Why are you guys so pressed?

Post by jodokus31 »

FunMaker wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 2:10 pm
I would like to see regular FFFs again. But that is my perspective as a player. On the other hand i see, that writing these and working with the responses of the community is a rollercoaster on its own and including these in the development process.
But there is one thing that Wube should consider: The Hype of the community is gone for now. In the last couple of months i recognized a massive stall of community activity on the forums. And if you want to keep being in the minds of the players, you should tease the community. I know factorio is a kind of a niche game that does not attract everyone walking by and most dedicated players will return if news will show up in 1-2 years. But teasing the community (even with technical stuff) would keep the interest in the game much higher.
When Factorio gets released on switch, there will be more activity, i suppose. Not for 1 year, though...

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Re: Why are you guys so pressed?

Post by MEOWMI »

I, for one, have complete trust in Wube's ability to deliver. I'm sure a very large portion of the playerbase feels the same way, but perhaps it isn't quite as big as one might hope.

A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is always bad.

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Re: Why are you guys so pressed?

Post by Pi-C »

MEOWMI wrote:
Wed Oct 26, 2022 4:05 pm
A delayed game is eventually good, but a rushed game is always bad.
Is English or German your first language? Just asking because "eventually" ("schließlich"/"letztendlich") doesn't have the same meaning as the German "eventuell" ("perhaps"). :-)
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