Friday Facts #365 - Future plans

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Re: Friday Facts #365 - Future plans

Post by mrvn »

Khazul wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:27 am
I welcome this news and I agree that a big expansion is the right way to go for the reasons given.

Re mod vs devs implementing in core game: For me, the #'1 advantage of being implemented in the core game is ongoing support and ubiquity. Like many of us, I use alot of the many excellent and well supported mods which is really great until the day it isnt as the author has moved on to other things / life got in the way etc (understandable - it happens). There are definitely some excellent mods that these days I kind of regard as almost core game.

As for what I think would be a cool direction: a factory spread across multiple surfaces (world / regions / space stations, whatever) with transport systems between then - portals, space elevators, spaceships, surface to orbit drones, inter-region trains / ships / mass slings, vac tubes (high speed bulk belts) or whatever.
My question about access to the factorio source was for features that can't be (properly) implemented in mods. Like train tunnels for example.

What is needed is a pair of rails that can be placed by script anywhere on any surface and be connected for the path finding of trains. With that mods can then add the graphics for train tunnels or portals and have trains drive through them. It's also possible for the mod to allow players or cars to use the portals as seen in e.g. Factorissimo. For train tunnels the train could just skip from entry to exit or the inside of the tunnel itself could be on a second surface with graphics to match the inside of the tunnel and length and direction matching. So the tunnel really would go underground and come back up. All can be done in a mod except for actually having the train drive through.
Khazul wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 03, 2021 5:27 am
Maybe add an intelligent biter overlord race present in space and directing the biters to be more annoying (and rampant mod like) say when an overlord is nearby ;) One of the great appeals of factorio vs other factory games is the number of ways we can play it - go for peaceful pure factory building, or all out endless war and mayhem with something like rampant and a bunch of weapons mods etc or whatever in between.

Maybe add some exotic resources only found on some surfaces and giving us a reason to go there and transport the stuff.

I do not see new biomes/tilesets being a useful thing in itself (they dont currently hugely change what you do - maybe a little polution more or less etc), however, I do think they would go well with multiple surfaces that represent alien surfaces, constructed (space station) surfaces etc and especially if certain resources were tied to certain biomes which maybe are tied to certain surfaces.
All that sounds like stuff that can live perfectly in a mod or scenario. Nothing prevents the devs from writing and maintaining mods as add-ons to the game.

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Re: Friday Facts #365 - Future plans

Post by Eternal »

And is also another Friday... Zdar!

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i haven't read the past 13page messages; so appologies if it's already mentioned.

Post by i_i »

Leaving the 1.0 + to the care of MODers

Factorio 2 Expansion PACK. Is HOPEFULLY Probably a more STABLE MOD COMPATIBILITY INTEGRATION.
Applying ALL the extra bulk concepts to a FEATURES filled Concept.

Something in the Lines of Kastorio, Sea Block, Caves, Factorissimo, Space & Planet type WITH the Re-balancing of the TECH like Angels, BOBs, DyWorld, F.A.R.L., LTN, MoMods, Reika, Yuoki Industries, PyMods. Picking all the best Convoluted ones that seems to change the game play. And can Finally add the Basic obvious MODS that you can finally pull out of the Vanilla mind set.
Alien Biomass, RSO, Stamina, increased (Wood, Tree, Coal, Burner) Phase in Industrial Revolution to Black Hole Tech. SO ALL THE BELLS AND WHISTLES. Bugs Ai & Aii of Vehicles.

having Both the Option normal Res Sprites to HIGH RES 3D graphics generating use the power of the Video Card. to compliment the Larger Screens this generation of PCs. Sub-Contracting the new SPRITEs to make it cartoony? to reduce the UPS? like the AfterMath:UFO & AfterShock:UFO look. & Supreme Commander v1 -> v2.

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Re: i haven't read the past 13page messages; so appologies if it's already mentioned.

Post by mrvn »

i_i wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:48 pm
having Both the Option normal Res Sprites to HIGH RES 3D graphics generating use the power of the Video Card. to compliment the Larger Screens this generation of PCs. Sub-Contracting the new SPRITEs to make it cartoony? to reduce the UPS? like the AfterMath:UFO & AfterShock:UFO look. & Supreme Commander v1 -> v2.
Factorio 2 - Now a First Person "shooter". No top down view until you research drones that fly above you and look down. Try building your megafactory in first person view only. :)

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Re: i haven't read the past 13page messages; so appologies if it's already mentioned.

Post by MasterBuilder »

mrvn wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:32 am
Factorio 2 - Now a First Person "shooter". No top down view until you research drones that fly above you and look down. Try building your megafactory in first person view only. :)
I know you're joking, but building your megafactory in first person is exactly how you do it in Satisfactory. And yes, it can be as painful as it sounds.
Give a man fire and he'll be warm for a day. Set a man on fire and he'll be warm for the rest of his life.

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Re: Friday Facts #365 - Future plans

Post by Eternal »

No more complexities... I want diversities... Im sick of all mods making it worst, i want evolving buildings... Im sick of placing assemblies in the nature 😁 , train tunnels, clifs that forms mountains, meh.. i dunno.. something that i can build something interesting 🀣🀣

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Re: i haven't read the past 13page messages; so appologies if it's already mentioned.

Post by mrvn »

MasterBuilder wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 05, 2021 1:30 pm
mrvn wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:32 am
Factorio 2 - Now a First Person "shooter". No top down view until you research drones that fly above you and look down. Try building your megafactory in first person view only. :)
I know you're joking, but building your megafactory in first person is exactly how you do it in Satisfactory. And yes, it can be as painful as it sounds.
Not really joking. They already have 3D models of all the buildings although somewhat scewed so they render good to the top down view. Shouldn't be too hard to reduce the polygon count on them and render details into textures and then have actual 3D models for the GPU to render in real time as first person view.

And hey, then we can ride along inside the train. Or build race courses for the cars. Demolition derby with tanks anyone?

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Wrong Assumption ; GPU Sprites or Vectored images of the changing Sprites.

Post by i_i »

Eternal wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:33 pm
No more complexities... I want diversities... Im sick of all mods making it worst, i want evolving buildings... Im sick of placing assemblies in the nature 😁 , train tunnels, clifs that forms mountains, meh.. i dunno.. something that i can build something interesting 🀣🀣
AGREE & CORRECT your able to see the Diversities of the Art. the Bulding Does Evolve as Vector Graphic instead of SPRITES.

mrvn above misunderstood the Goal; it's STILL viewed TOP View but the Graphics is Vectored and processed by the Video Card reducing the UPS of the CPU. the animation is handled by the Video Card.

Or just make a GAME CODE that uses the Video CARD to store the Sprites in it's DDR and have it independently processed by the GPU instead of the CPU.

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Re: Wrong Assumption ; GPU Sprites or Vectored images of the changing Sprites.

Post by Silari »

i_i wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:47 pm
Eternal wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:33 pm
No more complexities... I want diversities... Im sick of all mods making it worst, i want evolving buildings... Im sick of placing assemblies in the nature 😁 , train tunnels, clifs that forms mountains, meh.. i dunno.. something that i can build something interesting 🀣🀣
AGREE & CORRECT your able to see the Diversities of the Art. the Bulding Does Evolve as Vector Graphic instead of SPRITES.

mrvn above misunderstood the Goal; it's STILL viewed TOP View but the Graphics is Vectored and processed by the Video Card reducing the UPS of the CPU. the animation is handled by the Video Card.

Or just make a GAME CODE that uses the Video CARD to store the Sprites in it's DDR and have it independently processed by the GPU instead of the CPU.
The GPU already handles rendering of the sprites, and they're already stored in the VRAM of the GPU - hence why the game requires 1GB of VRAM, and recommends 2GB. The only thing the CPU is doing is determining what has to be drawn and passing it along to the GPU, which you still have to do in a 3D game, and the sprite atlases the game makes help reduce the CPU load.

All switching to 3d would do is make even fewer people able to play by removing the ability to play the game with a low end GPU, and probably look worse in the process. The only advantage 3d models would have is being able to change the view point.

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Re: Wrong Assumption ; GPU Sprites or Vectored images of the changing Sprites.

Post by mrvn »

Silari wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 05, 2021 10:00 pm
i_i wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:47 pm
Eternal wrote: ↑
Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:33 pm
No more complexities... I want diversities... Im sick of all mods making it worst, i want evolving buildings... Im sick of placing assemblies in the nature 😁 , train tunnels, clifs that forms mountains, meh.. i dunno.. something that i can build something interesting 🀣🀣
AGREE & CORRECT your able to see the Diversities of the Art. the Bulding Does Evolve as Vector Graphic instead of SPRITES.

mrvn above misunderstood the Goal; it's STILL viewed TOP View but the Graphics is Vectored and processed by the Video Card reducing the UPS of the CPU. the animation is handled by the Video Card.

Or just make a GAME CODE that uses the Video CARD to store the Sprites in it's DDR and have it independently processed by the GPU instead of the CPU.
The GPU already handles rendering of the sprites, and they're already stored in the VRAM of the GPU - hence why the game requires 1GB of VRAM, and recommends 2GB. The only thing the CPU is doing is determining what has to be drawn and passing it along to the GPU, which you still have to do in a 3D game, and the sprite atlases the game makes help reduce the CPU load.

All switching to 3d would do is make even fewer people able to play by removing the ability to play the game with a low end GPU, and probably look worse in the process. The only advantage 3d models would have is being able to change the view point.
Which would kind of be a requirement for a first person point of view. :)

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Re: Friday Facts #365 - Future plans

Post by Eternal »

I don't know why am i keep checking here... Clearly abandoned.... πŸ˜•

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Re: Friday Facts #365 - Future plans

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Eternal wrote: ↑
Mon Aug 30, 2021 1:30 pm
Clearly abandoned 😐
Eternal wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 17, 2021 1:10 pm
I don't know why am i keep checking here... Clearly abandoned.... πŸ˜•
I don't know why you're still there either, tbh.
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Re: Friday Facts #365 - Future plans

Post by Impatient »

I can't picture Wube moving Factorio to 3D. They factually had to program a new game. Why would they copy Satisfactory, if they clearly spawned a new subgenre of game, where they are the leader with Factorio?

My guess is, that an extension DLC of Factorio, will - probably/hopefully - alter the the game engine in a way, that they can offer new game mechanics. An expansion will not offer new tiers of existing entities. That road was fully explored by modders, with Bob as a spearhead. Widening the recipe tree is imo a tiny bit more likely (like also so many mods do - think Angels) but still unlikely. A conversion mod is more likely, but IMO still unlikely, as - I think - they are not going to scrap everything from the base game but build on it. Extending beyond the rocket is also likely. Think about Space Exploration and how popular it is. They hired the modder of SX and AAI as a new employee (though the news text says as graphics artist). And I think that former modder's game design views will have some impact.

Btw, on the topic of "hired modders": As far as I have seen on the forum, Wube hired two modders.

Earendel
https://mods.factorio.com/user/Earendel
who showed great interest and skill in adding new game mechanics to Factorio and also in making the necessary graphics for all the new entities.

Therenas
https://mods.factorio.com/user/Therenas
who showed interest and skill in making the complexity of Factorio more manageable.

IMO it is legit to assume, that Wube thinks, their interests, ideas and skills will benefit Wube in the dev process for the next step to come.


FFF#366 can also be an indicator for what they are aiming for. They clean up the game engine to optimize it and make it more generic, so that they are able to efficiently handle new game mechanics with it.

One more thing comes to my mind, which allows to make a deduction on what is to come: Mods.
I think it is safe to say, that modding/mods are a big thing in the world of Factorio. When planning an expansion, the question that arises immediately is: Should mods for the base game be compatible with the expansion? Fully, partially (some and some not, or all will need some changes to them) or not at all. I don't know how the devs answered that question to themselfs but if the answer is fully or partially, then it would impose a constraint on how an expansion can change the base gameplay and existing game mechanics. IMO Factorio has a treasure of mods attached to it and I think it is likely that Wube also wants that treasure or at least some of it to be useable with an expansion.

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Re: Friday Facts #365 - Future plans

Post by mrvn »

There is one thing I really would like to see: Hexagon tiles.

Would need a bit of rework of the map and all new graphics to handle the 6 directions instead of 4. Maybe 12 directions for rails? And all new curves.

On the topic of rail curves. Can't we change the radius just a tiny bit so after a curve the cars align with tiles again?

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Re: Friday Facts #365 - Future plans

Post by posila »

mrvn wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:56 pm
There is one thing I really would like to see: Hexagon tiles.
I'd like to see GTA 6 :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Re: Friday Facts #365 - Future plans

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posila wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 17, 2021 8:04 pm
I'd like to see GTA 6 :lol: :lol: :lol:
Thinking of the original 2D GTA games makes me wonder if the factorio engine would be suitable to relicense to other studios. Displaying a few buildings, explosions and textboxes already works :p.

Impatient wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:26 pm
Btw, on the topic of "hired modders": As far as I have seen on the forum, Wube hired two modders.
Also Bilka. Would be interesting to know who initiated that process.
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Re: Friday Facts #365 - Future plans

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eradicator wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:24 pm
Impatient wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:26 pm
Btw, on the topic of "hired modders": As far as I have seen on the forum, Wube hired two modders.
Also Bilka. Would be interesting to know who initiated that process.
Don't forget Klonan :)
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Re: Friday Facts #365 - Future plans

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Koub wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:49 am
eradicator wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 17, 2021 10:24 pm
Impatient wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 17, 2021 5:26 pm
Btw, on the topic of "hired modders": As far as I have seen on the forum, Wube hired two modders.
Also Bilka. Would be interesting to know who initiated that process.
Don't forget Klonan :)
For some reason I always assumed Klonan went the other way round. Was Klonan hired before or after Rsed ;)?
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Re: Friday Facts #365 - Future plans

Post by Impatient »

mrvn wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:56 pm
There is one thing I really would like to see: Hexagon tiles.
Are you serious? That would practically mean to make a new game engine.

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Re: Friday Facts #365 - Future plans

Post by mrvn »

Impatient wrote: ↑
Sat Sep 18, 2021 6:14 pm
mrvn wrote: ↑
Fri Sep 17, 2021 6:56 pm
There is one thing I really would like to see: Hexagon tiles.
Are you serious? That would practically mean to make a new game engine.
Not really. All the code that translates between map and screen coordinates needs to change and the coordinates for pipe connections in entities in the prototypes. You would probably want all new graphics for a lot of things better fitting the hexagonal form.

But for example inserters have regions where they pick up stuff and regions they drop stuff. With hexagonal tiles they still have regions where to pick up stuff and regions where to drop stuff. Engine wise they don't change at all other than the definition of those regions. Furnaces and assemblers stay the same. fluid dynamic stays the same except a pipe can now have 6 connections instead of 4. Electricity? Stays the same. A lot of the game engine really doesn't care about the shape of the tiles.

Note: you can make hexagonal tiles by using 2x2 squares and offsetting every row by 1. Internally double the size of everything. Adjust the inserter drop off locations to 6 instead of 8 with the offset figured in and you are done there. Make some magic with belts so they go one of 6 directions. Same for rails and pipes and then you are done apart from the graphics department.

Splitters would actually look nice in hexagonal tiles if you make them with only one entry or one exit depending on the direction. A "Y" shape.

PS: Obviously I'm simplifying. I'm not saying hardly any code has to be changed. A lot of details will be using map coordinates and would have to be changed to handle hexagonal tiles. And not just the graphics output, like how the inserter head moves from (1,0) to (0,1) in a 90Β° turn. Other game engines can handle square and hexagonal tiles, Freeciv for example. You can simply select the shape on game start and most of the code is ignorant of the fact.

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