Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

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Mike5000
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Re: Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

Post by Mike5000 »

valneq wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:40 am
Mike5000 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:52 am
[…] researching is just tedious with several clicks on widely separated parts of the screen just to say "research this next".
Shift + Click on a technology in the technology window
will start research/queue up the technology. How much more convenient do you need it?
Thank you. I'm glad to learn that.

As part of reviewing 0.18 I ran through the entire campaign again and it didn't tell me that. In fact it didn't even explain the various shift control left right clicks for moving/crafting different amounts that I thought used to be there.

Nor is shift-click-technology in the tooltip.

Nor TTBOMK is shift-click-technology in Settings/Controls (although backspace is).

So do you think we should recommend new users read all 360 FFFs? Assuming it was covered there and I missed it?

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Re: Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

Post by Koub »

valneq wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:40 am
Mike5000 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:52 am
[…] researching is just tedious with several clicks on widely separated parts of the screen just to say "research this next".
Shift + Click on a technology in the technology window
will start research/queue up the technology. How much more convenient do you need it?
... If you haven't forgotten to click "research queue availability" when creating the map, which I systematically forget to do, as I never go into the advanced tab of map creation. Unfortunately for me, activating it afterwards from console (which most players will probably overlook anyways) voids the achievements so I have to wait until the rocket launch to benefit from it (once it's almost useless).
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Re: Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

Post by 5thHorseman »

valneq wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 1:40 am
Mike5000 wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 12:52 am
[…] researching is just tedious with several clicks on widely separated parts of the screen just to say "research this next".
Shift + Click on a technology in the technology window
will start research/queue up the technology. How much more convenient do you need it?
I'd much prefer double-click.

Oh wait that works too!
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Re: Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

Post by 5thHorseman »

Koub wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 3:30 am
... If you haven't forgotten to click "research queue availability" when creating the map, which I systematically forget to do, as I never go into the advanced tab of map creation. Unfortunately for me, activating it afterwards from console (which most players will probably overlook anyways) voids the achievements so I have to wait until the rocket launch to benefit from it (once it's almost useless).
Yeah that's one of the more annoying parts of the game. Personally I find it easier to just restart when I realize it, which is usually within the first 15 minutes of the game. When I'm not playing with mods which is pretty rare.

But even in that case double click / shift click works to queue research.
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Re: Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

Post by brunzenstein »

I like the older miner with its distinctive 3 D look a lot more then the flat faced newcomer - honestly
And I never had a problem with the size neither have I read any user complaint regarding the old nicer version

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Re: Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

Post by WarpZone »

Oh man, you guys. That crashed ship looks so good! But one tiny nitpick I have is the dirt underneath it.

The state of the ground tells us the story about how the ship crashed. Like, not just "a ship crashed here" but how the crash played out.

Those round silver parts and yellow panels look great! The large round part in the first image looks good. Some of the smaller ship parts are a little indistinct, but they look okay. (Maybe they exploded away from the back of the main craft just before impact, partially cancelling out their forward momentum?)

But the most massive part of the wreck cleaving the shortest trail through the dirt? Dirt piled up on the left side as if it suddenly reversed direction upon impact-- not just stopping but accelerating at full speed in reverse after it hit the ground? A bunch of dirt somehow stuffed inside of the starboard thruster? Perfectly smooth dirt with grass growing on it above the bent stabilizers that look like they're still attached to the main hull, underground?

Maybe these details were intentional, maybe they weren't. I don't know. I wasn't there. But all I can say is that an average fellow like me, with only a layman's grasp of classical physics and no personal experience with plane crashes, I find them counter-intuitive.

Here's an, actionable, measurable rule-of-thumb for whoever photoshops the terrain deformation into the sprites: Streaks go on the left. Piled-up dirt goes on the right. Like a plow. Because all the parts pushed dirt out in front of them as they drove forward through the ground.

Once all the parts get their story straight and start saying the same thing, I think you'll find the crash site as a whole suddenly looks a whole lot cooler, and tells a coherent story no matter what arrangement the pieces randomly spawn in.

Here's a quick-and-dirty paintover showing the general concept (Warning: preview looks much better than full-screen.):
factorio crash site paintover.jpg
factorio crash site paintover.jpg (1.83 MiB) Viewed 1225 times

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Re: Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

Post by mikehendi »

This is the perfect opportunity to change the start from 8 iron plates to

--->>> 9 iron plates start <<<---

Isn't the 8 plates start just an obsolete artifact which allowed you to craft 2 pickaxes to start off with?

With 9 iron plates, a new player could mine a big rock and immediately build a 2nd burner mining drill+furnace, allowing for a more 'flexible' start (without the obligation to need to smelt a single iron plate before being able to do anything else).

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Re: Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

Post by luc »

WarpZone: what have you done?

Now I can't unsee it and will just be disappointed by the 1.0 dirt :(

(Alternative response: that looks really good :o )

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Re: Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

Post by WarpZone »

Haha thanks luc. :D

Took me about 20 minutes. Towards the end I figured out that the secret is to just copy and paste the streaks that already look good. Stretching = bad. Repositioning top and bottom streaks at the top and bottom of parts in the ground = good.

Between that and knowing when to use a big, fuzzy eraser brush (streaks) and when to use a small, sharp eraser brush (dirt lumps,) it should be pretty easy for even an amateur like me to extract the magic from the resources they have and apply it to pretty much any object they want to be sunk in the ground at tremendous horizontal speeds.

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Re: Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

Post by WarpZone »

mikehendi wrote:
Sun Aug 09, 2020 11:33 am
--->>> 9 iron plates start <<<---

With 9 iron plates, a new player could mine a big rock and immediately build a 2nd burner mining drill+furnace, allowing for a more 'flexible' start (without the obligation to need to smelt a single iron plate before being able to do anything else).
I second this suggestion out of self-interest. :mrgreen: But it sort of makes me wonder why they've kept it this way for as long as they have.

I can see how, on paper, it's good game design to gate everything behind the player demonstrating that they understand how smelting works? But something tells me learning how to smelt stuff second instead of first isn't going to be the moment where new players quit the game out of frustration.

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Re: Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

Post by Impatient »

croc_miam wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:54 am
I'm really glad the crash story is acknowledged in freeplay but something has always bothered me: why do we build a rocket if not to leave the planet? Shouldn't the winning condition be "launch ourselves into space" instead of a satellite?
are you telling us, that you really want to leave your factory? something, you spent between 10 to 100 hours of your life without sleeping? the very thing that is made out of your sweat and blood (and the blood of a lot of natives)? that you want to leave the place, where you now can make the most complicated things at almost the snap of your fingers - if it is not built all the time automatically anyways? you want to trade that for your old life, where you had to work for some salary to be able to buy some mediocre stuff? you want to trade a whole planet for an apartment and the streets of a city, social injustice and politics? you want to take off your fully weaponized power armor to go back to a place where, when you point a gun - if you have a gun - you get disarmed by a police squad rather sooner than later, where on Nauvis you can torch a whole forest, set off a pocket nuke and go on a drive-by-rampage in a tank, whenever you think it is funny?

no, no, the satellite's main purpose is to send back the message:
"Dear <appropriate recipient/s>,
finally I am able to send you a message. I am fine. My ship went off course, when I was in hyper sleep. I crash landed on Nauvis, a planet in a system pretty far from my supposed travel route. I was in dire need of everything. And I had to work and fight hard. But you know, in the end I made it. And I made better than you would think. And I really kind of like it here now. So, I am thinking: Kiss my ass, I am staying for a while.

Your faithful engineer

P.S.: In case you wonder: Not having sex for a while might be well worth it. I keep you updated.

P.P.S: Come and visit if you like (coordinates attached). I can provide for your trip back home.



Of course you would only send such message if you are truly anti social. If you can not do without a social life, I would absolutely agree with you. ;)

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Re: Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

Post by Hannu »

croc_miam wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:54 am
I'm really glad the crash story is acknowledged in freeplay but something has always bothered me: why do we build a rocket if not to leave the planet? Shouldn't the winning condition be "launch ourselves into space" instead of a satellite?
As someone mentioned, continued game would not fit very well in that story. Rocket launch is beginning of mid game for many players. Then you have all tech and are able to build actual base. At last I hate building games which force end. Only correct end is when all objectives is met and increasing production feels more boring copying than interesting planning.

Tech level needed for manned spaceflight is also very much higher. Factorio rocket seem to be smallish launcher for small communication satellite. Radiotelescope would also fit in that story.

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Re: Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

Post by disjustice »

croc_miam wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:54 am
I'm really glad the crash story is acknowledged in freeplay but something has always bothered me: why do we build a rocket if not to leave the planet? Shouldn't the winning condition be "launch ourselves into space" instead of a satellite?
I always interpreted it as you are launching a rocket with just enough fuel to put a communication satellite in orbit to call for a rescue. You aren't launching an interstellar vessel: otherwise you'd be fueling it with antimatter or something instead of rocket fuel refined from petroleum. It also makes sense why you would keep playing after launching the rocket - a rescue, if it ever comes, might take months or years, so you'd better dig in and get your base in order!

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Re: Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

Post by plepper1 »

croc_miam wrote:
Sat Aug 08, 2020 9:54 am
I'm really glad the crash story is acknowledged in freeplay but something has always bothered me: why do we build a rocket if not to leave the planet? Shouldn't the winning condition be "launch ourselves into space" instead of a satellite?
There's also the ending where as you take off the 'auto-blueprint' mod takes over and the machines use your amazing, painstakingly built industrial base to chase you home. (robo-biters for factorio2?)


I love the new updates! Great work, everyone!

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Re: Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

Post by catma »

Original lore minded, I have VERY BAD feelings lore wise with the ship that crashed looking like such a one-man-one-use-only ship look. Shouldn't the guy with such wizardly engineering skills come from a civilization of some kind???

I have GOOD feelings when ignoring the official story, that this is a player that played before and just wanted to try a different hemisphere of Nauvis while his first self-replicating megabase eats all the ressources because he forgot to code in a way to stop growing and save some for building off planet (space exploration mod) before all ressources are gone. So he's rushing to the stars with no intent to return to Nauvis --- on borrowed time against grey goo.

As such I think you should either make graphics coherent to lore!!! Otherwise modders will be forced to make lore for you, and people who don't understand the power of modding will have a poorer lore experience.

P.S.: this is the very first DISSONANT LORE VS GRAPHICS that I am aware of. It has however already soured one of my friends to factorio unmoded lore today, and this I will be slow to forgive if it's not fixed. (feel free to call me ENTITLED. Previous lore trained me to expect much...)

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Re: Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

Post by brunzenstein »

I recommend scrapping this absolutely useless and annoying feature "research queue availability" especially annoying targeted at new gamers
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Re: Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

Post by AmericanPatriot »

brunzenstein wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:37 pm
I recommend scrapping this absolutely useless and annoying feature "research queue availability" especially annoying targeted at new gamers
I also dislike it. Why would anyone not enable it. It’s like it was put there to have people forget to change it.
:D

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Re: Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

Post by Koub »

AmericanPatriot wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 7:04 pm
brunzenstein wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 2:37 pm
I recommend scrapping this absolutely useless and annoying feature "research queue availability" especially annoying targeted at new gamers
I also dislike it. Why would anyone not enable it. It’s like it was put there to have people forget to change it.
You might want to voice your support on some suggestions in the relevant subforum :
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=81142
viewtopic.php?f=6&t=66073
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

Post by Therax »

catma wrote:
Tue Aug 11, 2020 8:59 am
Original lore minded, I have VERY BAD feelings lore wise with the ship that crashed looking like such a one-man-one-use-only ship look. Shouldn't the guy with such wizardly engineering skills come from a civilization of some kind???
I prefer to think of the ship as an escape pod/lifeboat of some sort, from a much larger interstellar craft. Think droids landing on Tatooine.
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Re: Friday Facts #359 - Crash site: The beginning

Post by Dima77 »

The drill looks better... But compared to the previous version, it is worse to see whether it works or not.

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