Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

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fuinril
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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by fuinril »

conn11 wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:16 am

Such designs weren‘t possible when fluid mixing was a thing. It just bricked your pipe network.
The backup input should be something achieveable with a little more sophisticated contraption.
Though funktional fluid mixing would have some use for flamethrower turrets, in most other entities it would collide with the fluid boxses.
A little bit out of scope for 1.0 IMO.
As for a post launch rework of fluid dynamics ...
For the sake of discussion I rolled back to 0.15 and checked. This design was perfectly doable without bricking anything.
All it required was :
- on the input side. A tank for each fluid you would like to flow to be able to check the level, one pump after the tanks linked to a circuit breaker and some logic.
- on the output side. One pump for each fluid controlled by a circuit breaker linked to a tank.

And now you can control your oil stock and, if it runs low, just stop the input pump, enable the output one to purge the system, enable the backup input pump and disable the corresponding output pump. That's not even a complex system.


And I have to say my idea of a fluid loading deck is very doable in the vanilla 0.17 game (or would have been if fluid mixing was still possible) as you have multiple fluids (not a lot but still) and tank wagons. So that's another potential use for the base game.

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by terradus »

I hate redesign!!!
This is very big mistake from developers!!!
i hate 3 redesigns:
1) Beacons (and icons for this)
2) electric drill (and icons for this) !!!!!!!!!!
3) Science packages (and icons for this)

Please get back old disign for electric drill !!!!!!!!

or tell me please how i can getback old disign for my local ? (without changing of version of the game).
2,752 hours in factorio.

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by conn11 »

fuinril wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 7:33 am
conn11 wrote:
Tue Jun 16, 2020 5:16 am

Such designs weren‘t possible when fluid mixing was a thing. It just bricked your pipe network.
The backup input should be something achieveable with a little more sophisticated contraption.
Though funktional fluid mixing would have some use for flamethrower turrets, in most other entities it would collide with the fluid boxses.
A little bit out of scope for 1.0 IMO.
As for a post launch rework of fluid dynamics ...
For the sake of discussion I rolled back to 0.15 and checked. This design was perfectly doable without bricking anything.
All it required was :
- on the input side. A tank for each fluid you would like to flow to be able to check the level, one pump after the tanks linked to a circuit breaker and some logic.
- on the output side. One pump for each fluid controlled by a circuit breaker linked to a tank.

And now you can control your oil stock and, if it runs low, just stop the input pump, enable the output one to purge the system, enable the backup input pump and disable the corresponding output pump. That's not even a complex system.


And I have to say my idea of a fluid loading deck is very doable in the vanilla 0.17 game (or would have been if fluid mixing was still possible) as you have multiple fluids (not a lot but still) and tank wagons. So that's another potential use for the base game.

So automated pipe/entity flushing would also do the trick. Potentially induced by circuit condition.
Sure it wouldn't be that flexible, but on the other hand is keeping the QoL improvements of inhibited fluid mixing.
If anything seems not entirely out of scope before 1.0, then this.
For reintroducing true fluid mixing, the scope of the rework of fluid dynamics (if this is even still a thing) should be better defined.

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by Reika »

I just had a pretty unpleasant surprise with the new fluid system: we lost the "pipe will have X fluid" overlays, which means that planning complex systems just got a lot harder and more annoying: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=86029&p=498962#p498962
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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by Koub »

Reika wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 1:22 am
I just had a pretty unpleasant surprise with the new fluid system: we lost the "pipe will have X fluid" overlays, which means that planning complex systems just got a lot harder and more annoying: viewtopic.php?f=28&t=86029&p=498962#p498962
Related : viewtopic.php?f=6&t=86031
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by AndrewIRL »

Beacon re-redesign is fantastic

Love the module visibility

Re-redesign > Old Beacons > Redesign
Last edited by AndrewIRL on Wed Jun 17, 2020 11:49 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by bobucles »

It's amazing how difficult the fluid mixing system has been to deal with. It probably would have been easier to have a warning icon whenever fluids crash in the pipe network. :lol: That and the new pipe flushing system could have taken care of most things.

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by BadManJose »

Can anyone explain what's going on in the fluid flushing video with the Pump (not Offshore Pump) directly pumping water? I thought that was a cool thing that I didn't know about until I tried it, and you can't place a Pump in the water.

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by Klonan »

BadManJose wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:28 pm
Can anyone explain what's going on in the fluid flushing video with the Pump (not Offshore Pump) directly pumping water? I thought that was a cool thing that I didn't know about until I tried it, and you can't place a Pump in the water.
Its an offshore pump

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by BadManJose »

Klonan wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:49 pm
Its an offshore pump
Does that mean the Offshore Pump is also getting a redesign then? Cause it looks very much like just a Pump.

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by valneq »

BadManJose wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:19 pm
Klonan wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:49 pm
Its an offshore pump
Does that mean the Offshore Pump is also getting a redesign then? Cause it looks very much like just a Pump.
It is an offshore pump. Already re-designed. See also
https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-336

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by 5thHorseman »

BadManJose wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 5:19 pm
Klonan wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 4:49 pm
Its an offshore pump
Does that mean the Offshore Pump is also getting a redesign then? Cause it looks very much like just a Pump.
Got. It got a redesign.
Image Image

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by tempstuff »

I spent a lot of time in Factorio and to me it is the most absorbing, fun and imagination triggering game I ever played. I don't know if i am getting tired or what but all those recent changes put me a little-litle bit off... However - I am patiently waiting for 1.0. Thank you and good night :)

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by BadManJose »

valneq wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:04 pm
It is an offshore pump. Already re-designed. See also
https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-336
Strange. I used future tense because it still looks like the old one in my games. That post is from the end of Feb and mentions release next week though. Is it just in the Experimental and not the Stable version yet or something?

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by valneq »

BadManJose wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 8:37 pm
valneq wrote:
Wed Jun 17, 2020 6:04 pm
It is an offshore pump. Already re-designed. See also
https://factorio.com/blog/post/fff-336
Strange. I used future tense because it still looks like the old one in my games. That post is from the end of Feb and mentions release next week though. Is it just in the Experimental and not the Stable version yet or something?
Exactly. The stable version is 0.17.79 and was released on Nov 19, 2019. Every change (and FFF) since then is exclusive to the 0.18 experimental branch.

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by BadManJose »

Cool, thanks!

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by Brambor »

The JS rolling image seems to be a bit off for me on Android phone.
As I move the slider, the assemblers move a bit...

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by terradus »

this is totaly wrong way for dewevoping of this game!!!!

Image

Reasons:
1) Now grifers can remove all oil!
2) Now grifers can turn pipes for mix!
3) Now you can wrong with pipe.
2,752 hours in factorio.

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by Klonan »

terradus wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:42 am
this is totaly wrong way for dewevoping of this game!!!!

Image

Reasons:
1) Now grifers can remove all oil!
2) Now grifers can turn pipes for mix!
3) Now you can wrong with pipe.
So kick the griefers, or disable the permission to flush

If you have griefers, they can do a lot more damage than flushing 1,000 oil.

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Re: Friday Facts #351 - Beacon re-redesign & Simplified fluid mixing

Post by terradus »

Klonan wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 11:00 am
terradus wrote:
Thu Jun 18, 2020 10:42 am
this is totaly wrong way for dewevoping of this game!!!!

Image

Reasons:
1) Now grifers can remove all oil!
2) Now grifers can turn pipes for mix!
3) Now you can wrong with pipe.
So kick the griefers, or disable the permission to flush

If you have griefers, they can do a lot more damage than flushing 1,000 oil.
It’s good that there is such a setting that you can disable deletion. But who know how possible tune it ?


+ I want to explain the essence in the form of an analogy in another area:
Any safe for savings can be hacked. Nevertheless, they are used - for a simple reason, they complicate theft.

Safes are made in order to increase the chances of safety.
And you removed the safe from home and tell me: If you have robbers, then they can steal much more than can fit in a safe. So put an alarm or concrete your savings in the wall.

You have the wrong logic. Why change the game this way? what are the advantages?

What are the advantages of the new electric drill? which obscures the review and its animation no longer speaks of a lack of energy? You just changed the electric drill for the worse. The design of the previous electric drill was functional - it could be used to determine if there was enough energy for drilling, the old drill was informative and did not block the view (it was better!).

You began to slide down! such a feeling that you have changed the game designer or he did not care before the game.

Everyone makes mistakes, but why don't I pay attention to them, amid the fact that everyone praises you?

guys i respect you very much, and up to this point I thought you were the best of the best in the game industry (in all world) - but the time has come when you need criticism, otherwise you will make the game worse(Because there are reasons in the form of electric drill and pipes).

And I love this game.

Electric drill must be revised.

Give us the right to choose a setting that allows us to make the logic of the pipes the same as it was (the pipes were highlighted by the type of liquid even if there was no liquid in it)
2,752 hours in factorio.

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