We support Ukraine

[enterisys]

New European 155mm weapons allowed the Armed Forces of Ukraine to kill civilians and children throughout all Donetsk (not only the areas closest to the front). Glory to Ukrainian heroes!

How many European media will write about this glorious victory of the Armed Forces of Ukraine?

Where were you when russian nazis were dombing bambas for 8 years?

[mmmPI]

New European 155mm weapons allowed the Armed Forces of Ukraine to kill civilians and children throughout all Donetsk (not only the areas closest to the front). Glory to Ukrainian heroes!
How many European media will write about this glorious victory of the Armed Forces of Ukraine?

And how would you know it's a European 155mm weapon if not for the European media showing the help they send the Ukraine to fend off the Russian invasion ?

Are you sure it's not a American weapon ? that seem odd to specify it's a european weapon, which country one should know if he's able to tell apart european from american weapon, why not tell us if it was UK or Germany or France or Poland or Estonia or Czech republic or any other of the 27 countries ? There are no "european weapon" as different countries have different equipement that are sometimes from the USA sometimes legacy soviet equipment, sometimes their own national production, but there are no such thing as "european weapons" there no standard equipment even if it's being politically advocated even more by some political parties in europe since the beginning of the war.

Also why do talk about a "front" ? you said there was no war, are you talking about the front of the special military operation ?

Are you refering to something different than what happen in the last 8 years according to your first post on this forum you made a few minutes after your registration ? For example a full scale invasion attempt launched the 24th of february ?


22 journalists killed since Russia began its total war against Ukraine
https://khpg.org/en/1608810486

A large percentage of the 243 crimes against journalists and the media which IMI has recorded since 24 February have also served much the same purpose. The Russian invaders have, in areas under their control, resorted to abductions, threats against media owners and journalists, torture and intimidation to try to force the media to produce pro-Moscow propaganda and to replace Ukrainian media with propaganda media from Russia or occupied Crimea and Donbas.

I don't know how many European media will write about your picture djmixxx, probably just a few since those that need to verify facts before publishing are not allowed to access the Russian occupied part of Ukraine under threat of torture and death. So far i have counted 4 internet info website written in english but hosted in Russia, all of them are new information website created since february 2022 so maybe they all just mirror. It' not the number of media that matters i'd say it's more the quality of the media that provide the information and the evidence of the facts. Because you said on your first comment on this forum that this has been happening during 8 years, how can a journalist know if the picture is new or not ?

I will post information related to Ukraine. Maybe she's one-sided.
I try not to take information from official Russian sources.

All your objections: I manipulate opinion. Yes, even if so. I only stir what angered me.
I am not forbidding you to post anything. As long as you only blame me.

Where did you took your "information" his time ?

[ptx0]

New European 155mm weapons allowed the Armed Forces of Ukraine to kill civilians and children throughout all Donetsk (not only the areas closest to the front). Glory to Ukrainian heroes!

yes, Russians use the same tactics that ISIS and al-Shabab have pioneered. very brave tactics to shield using nearby women and children.

[enterisys]

When Volvo cargo trucks are sanctioned and you need to improvise.

[enterisys]

Every wannabe emperor needs personal clown.
Russian Security Council Secretary Nikolai Patrushev said that Poland is moving to seize territories in western Ukraine.
https://www-interfax-ru.translate.goog/ ... r_pto=wapp

[enterisys]

Started with tractors. Now circle is complete.

[Rubeus]

I'm late to the party here, but haven't been to the forums for a while.

I do NOT support Ukraine, and I would challenge anyone that does. Though, I can get behind supporting those that provide medical aid vs weapons and fighters.

First and foremost, Ukraine has been ranked amongst the top 3 most corrupt countries in Europe for several years running. This is a big deal.
Second, this conflict started in 2014, and if this statement confuses you, do some research before parroting the 'Putin needs to be stopped' narrative.
Third, Poroshenko, Zelensky's predecessor, was the one that fired his version of Attorney General at Biden/Obama's behest due to his investigations into.... Biden and Obama's corrupt dealings in Ukraine. Recently, the case was reopened and wrongdoing was found. Poroshenko also started the oppression of the ethnic Russians in the eastern oblasts. (Zelensky only continued the bombing and oppression.)
Fourth, Zelensky is touring the United States and doing speaking gigs rather than staying in Ukraine to help the people.
Fifth, almost everything parroted from Ukraine about this conflict has been fake propaganda. A huge number of them have been debunked in humiliating ways - from the "Ghost of Kiev", to the people running from a Russian attack in Kiev, to the thousands of tanks and planes Russia lost, to the Russians using civilians as shields, to Russians putting bombs in beds and pianos to kill children, to the tie-fighter and Stormtroopers taking out Russians - it's all been proven false.
Sixth - first-hand accounts show Ukraine is executing any soldiers that try to retreat, and instead push them to fight in impossible conditions.
Seventh - Has anyone even seen what Zelensky was doing before becoming Ukrainian president? Hint: it involves him and another guy playing the same piano with their dicks. Or dancing around in S&M leathers with other men. (This is not what leader looks like.)
Eighth - Zelensky has made many millions of dollars since becoming president of a country that is dirt poor. To the point that he's now possibly considered a billionaire. (It's hard to tell due to the different financial regulations and laws in Ukraine.)
Nineth - They have been lying the whole time about winning against Russia.
Tenth - The Azov battalion was absorbed into the Ukrainian army. Azov is a neo-Nazi group that uses Nazi symbolism, and has been accused of multiple war crimes and torture. These are real, actual Nazis that have been fighting the civilians in Donbas since 2014. With the Ukrainian government's blessing. As in, they saw the fighting, and instead of stopping it, started funding Azov to allow it to not just continue, but escalate.

The way I see it, Zelensky surrendering would save thousands of lives; instead, he is destroying Ukraine. For these reasons, I do not support Ukraine.

[enterisys]

First and foremost, Ukraine has been ranked amongst the top 3 most corrupt countries in Europe for several years running. This is a big deal.

And russia is top 1, so why you support it? And if you forget about rankings and measure in $$$ russia can fit tens of Ukraine's corruptions.

Second, this conflict started in 2014, and if this statement confuses you, do some research before parroting the 'Putin needs to be stopped' narrative.

the conflict started around 2002 when russians started moving in Ukraine putin's narative about reunification of USSR. We lived in peace 1991-2001 but them some revolutions/protests started happening all of a sudden.

Third, Poroshenko, Zelensky's predecessor, was the one that fired his version of Attorney General at Biden/Obama's behest due to his investigations into....
Biden and Obama's corrupt dealings in Ukraine. Recently, the case was reopened and wrongdoing was found. Poroshenko also started the oppression of the ethnic Russians in the eastern oblasts. (Zelensky only continued the bombing and oppression.)

I am ethnic russian (75%) from Odessa (South), the only one is opressing russians in Ukraine is putin's rockets and orks.

Fourth, Zelensky is touring the United States and doing speaking gigs rather than staying in Ukraine to help the people.

You mean speaking gigs through zoom? He never left Ukraine during the "special operation" and current war.

Fifth, almost everything parroted from Ukraine about this conflict has been fake propaganda. A huge number of them have been debunked in humiliating ways - from the "Ghost of Kiev", to the people running from a Russian attack in Kiev, to the thousands of tanks and planes Russia lost, to the Russians using civilians as shields, to Russians putting bombs in beds and pianos to kill children, to the tie-fighter and Stormtroopers taking out Russians - it's all been proven false.

Yet only russian military tv was banned in Europe due to lies and manipulations and not Ukrainian. Coincidence?

Sixth - first-hand accounts show Ukraine is executing any soldiers that try to retreat, and instead push them to fight in impossible conditions.

How come this "first-hand accounts" were not executed the same way? Very interesting statement from russian media.

Seventh - Has anyone even seen what Zelensky was doing before becoming Ukrainian president? Hint: it involves him and another guy playing the same piano with their dicks. Or dancing around in S&M leathers with other men. (This is not what leader looks like.)

Has anyone seen what putin did before ceeing appointed (not elected) as russian president? Correct noone did - he was a KGB spy and what spies do best is lie.

Eighth - Zelensky has made many millions of dollars since becoming president of a country that is dirt poor. To the point that he's now possibly considered a billionaire. (It's hard to tell due to the different financial regulations and laws in Ukraine.)

Surely not as much to afford 1.4 billion putin's villa https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-56007943

Nineth - They have been lying the whole time about winning against Russia.

No one said Ukraine is winning against russia.
But even officially declared russian objectives are still not met after 3+ months. What do you call failed objectives? Yes a failure.

Tenth - The Azov battalion was absorbed into the Ukrainian army. Azov is a neo-Nazi group that uses Nazi symbolism, and has been accused of multiple war crimes and torture. These are real, actual Nazis that have been fighting the civilians in Donbas since 2014. With the Ukrainian government's blessing. As in, they saw the fighting, and instead of stopping it, started funding Azov to allow it to not just continue, but escalate.

You do realise that Azov was formed in 2014 from the very civilians of east Ukraine as a first defence against russian invasion in 2014.
There are close to 40 mil Ukrainians. And how many are there Azov memebers? 1 thousand? 2? And how many of those Azov members are the very civilians of east Ukraine?

The way I see it, Zelensky surrendering would save thousands of lives; instead, he is destroying Ukraine. For these reasons, I do not support Ukraine.

Ah yes good ol russian narative - just give up. Too bad you messed up with too big of a country which has a big history of being just stubborn.

[Rubeus]

enterisys:

You make assumptions about my position. I did no say I supported Russia. I said I did not support Ukraine. That renders much of your rebuttals invalid, and it shouldn't - it means you are not addressing the substance and instead making Straw Man arguments.

I'm not going to attempt to format the mess of quotes.

1) I addressed Ukraine, not Russia. The world is giving billions in aid and weapons to the corrupt Ukraine, not Russia.
2) I said the conflict, meaning the fighting. This did indeed start in 2014.
3) It's true that with all the propaganda, it's hard to tell if they are Russian or Ukrainian bombings. Interviews with residents that have to hide in bomb shelters have claimed they come from the Azov Battalion, not Russia. But I will concede this one is near impossible to verify.
4) He did leave a couple times. Example here: https://www.timesofisrael.com/zelensky- ... ring-trip/
5) Point one: I addressed Ukraine, not Russia. Point two: Ban propaganda or promote their side's propaganda? If you want to believe Zelensky got the Empire from Star Wars and the Ghost of Kiev to fight for him, that's your decision. The fact that it was banned rather than rebuffed is a huge red flag.
6) These first-hand accounts come from people that escaped. Especially the Reddit retards that went to fight thinking they were going to be the next Marvel Avengers. Needless to say, you automatically think all sources of information have to be Ukranian or Russian. I can think of 1 from the UK and 2 others from an English speaking country that was not divulged - all 3 individuals. Please, no 'muh russian troooools' comment, I am aware of the possibility. The statements of the surrendered Ukranian soldiers corroborate. Please, no 'muh russian proooopoooogoooondoooo' comment, I am aware of the possibility.
7) I addressed Ukraine, not Russia.
8) I addressed Ukraine, not Russia.
9) I addressed Ukraine, not Russia. Yes, people are saying Ukraine is winning. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ive-putin/ Although, now that it's becoming more obvious, they are coming around to the truth: https://www.newsweek.com/putin-thinks-w ... st-1712325. Note that Putin's objective was never Kiev. It was always the Eastern part of Ukraine where the ethnic Russians are. As Putin has stated from the start - that was just propaganda, though, right?
10) So... it's not a lot of them, and they fought Russians... so it's okay that they are committing war crimes and torture? Is that your argument?

You make the assumption that this is a binary issue. But it's not. This whole thing was avoidable, as far as I can tell, if Ukraine had followed the Minsk Accords they signed, and now the whole world is paying the price. Both sides are partially at fault, but Ukraine doesn't deserve any pity or support.

[ptx0]

You make assumptions about my position. I did no say I supported Russia. I said I did not support Ukraine. That renders much of your rebuttals invalid, and it shouldn't - it means you are not addressing the substance and instead making Straw Man arguments.

we didn't make assumptions.

this is a war against Ukraine, and if you do not support Ukraine, you are supporting Russia.

it's a war, that's merely how things go. oh, didn't see any criticism of Russia in your post. maybe you are in Russia. and if so, merely speaking out at all in this way, is illegal.

[ptx0]

again for the people in the back, if you're criticising Ukraine in this war it's probably because you don't want them to win.

which, again, means you are supporting Russia.

is this inherently bad? probably. am i saying that? no. you're just a guilty conscience.

[mmmPI]

1) The world is giving billions in aid and weapons to the corrupt Ukraine, not Russia.

I think it's because it's the russian tanks that crossed border toward ukraine, also russian planes, russian missile, russian boats, russian military personnel, and many other things that the russian have way more in number than ukraine. If it was the other way around maybe the world would have send aid to corrupt Russia instead don't you think ?

3) It's true that with all the propaganda, it's hard to tell if they are Russian or Ukrainian bombings. Interviews with residents that have to hide in bomb shelters have claimed they come from the Azov Battalion, not Russia. But I will concede this one is near impossible to verify.

But what are the previously mentionned troop doing in Ukraine then ? just tourism ? taking pictures and giving blankets ? its true that with all the propaganda one might think that, i will concede, but only one that is severly lacking of comon sense.

Since you call it impossible to verify it's literally a rumor : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumor

This has already been discussed in the topic, i could say for example, yes but people says Putin has blood cancer and is already dead for a long time replaced by look-alike :
https://nypost.com/2022/05/14/russias-v ... recording/

I will concede this one is near impossible to verify, yet i'm still posting it, why not ? as a demonstrative example, do you want some more impossible to verify thing ? why would you post them in here in the first place ?

4) He did leave a couple times. Example here: https://www.timesofisrael.com/zelensky- ... ring-trip/

You took this article randomly without understanding that the title ? Clearly the title itself is enough to have the context that this trip occured before the beginning of the war. You're very late to the party, this article is from the 19th of february and the war started the 24th, hence why in the article it is explained that Zelensky is warning of a potential imminent invasion of his country by Russia, which occured a week later ...

This whole thing was avoidable, as far as I can tell, if Ukraine had followed the Minsk Accords they signed, and now the whole world is paying the price. Both sides are partially at fault, but Ukraine doesn't deserve any pity or support.

You have a problem with chronology, the Minsk agreement where signed in September 2014 after the first conflict launched by Russia following the annexation of Crimea. How could Ukraine have avoided being targeted in March 2014 by following the Minsk accord that were only signed later ??

There is this one guy who really tried to avoid the war but he was murdered : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boris_Nemtsov

At the time of his murder, Nemtsov was preparing for publication his next report proving the presence of Russian military in eastern Ukraine (BBC News International, 28 February 2015; a Russian source is quoting journalist Kseniya Sobchak on the matter).[5] In May 2015, the report has been published under the title "Putin. War".[107][108] The publication reported that more than 200 Russian soldiers were then operating in Ukraine.[109]

Also no-one respected the Minsk accord, nor Ukraine who openly recognized not being able to grant autonomy to the eastern province while being attacked by mercrenaries, nor Russia who claimed there were not part of the conflict and it was only the separatist of the eastern oblast vs the regular ukrainian forces. ( Which was contradicted with proof by Boris Nemtsov before he was killed month before it was officially recognized by Russian defense minister)

But the escalation that occured in february 2022 as far as i can tell is totally out of proportion with any kind of reason that where brought there. We are talking about 10 million people who fled their home in the span of 2 month, that is far more devastation and suffering that many of the major natural disaster that occured in recent history. Earhquakes Tsunamis, Drought, floods, diseases, hunger, wars, those makes me sad for the human that suffer from it.

This did indeed start in 2014.

The way I see it, Zelensky surrendering would save thousands of lives; instead, he is destroying Ukraine. For these reasons, I do not support Ukraine.

If Putin didn't launched the war, no-one would have gotten killed, i think you are too much focused on Zelensky (maybe because of the piano dick thing?) he wasn't even there when Putin launched part1, I can understand that the whole "fighting NATO expansion" rethoric is not really popular at the moment due to the opposite happening, but blaming Zelensky who was elected on MAY 2019 for not avoiding something that started in 2014 is going to need some proper explanation. It seem very misinformed at best, pretty dishonnest otherwise.

[enterisys]

You make assumptions about my position. I did no say I supported Russia. I said I did not support Ukraine. That renders much of your rebuttals invalid, and it shouldn't - it means you are not addressing the substance and instead making Straw Man arguments.
1) I addressed Ukraine, not Russia. The world is giving billions in aid and weapons to the corrupt Ukraine, not Russia.

You clearly contradict yourself starting from very first statement: if you hate corruption so much why not hate russia in first place where curruption is higher (tenfold+ in USD levels).
And dont forget that EU gave 100+ billions of aid to russia for resources and only 2-3 to Ukraine. What is your position here when wealthy Europeans support your VERY corrupt country?

2) I said the conflict, meaning the fighting. This did indeed start in 2014.

Then you are wrong and uneducated/uninformed on the subject. Go read some independent resources on the topic.

3) It's true that with all the propaganda, it's hard to tell if they are Russian or Ukrainian bombings. Interviews with residents that have to hide in bomb shelters have claimed they come from the Azov Battalion, not Russia. But I will concede this one is near impossible to verify.

If it's hard to tell why you are so brainwashed to believe that only russian propaganda is correct and any other opinion is automatically false?

4) He did leave a couple times. Example here: https://www.timesofisrael.com/zelensky- ... ring-trip/

So you confirm my point that he never left DURING the conflict. Thanks I guess.

5) Point one: I addressed Ukraine, not Russia. Point two: Ban propaganda or promote their side's propaganda? If you want to believe Zelensky got the Empire from Star Wars and the Ghost of Kiev to fight for him, that's your decision. The fact that it was banned rather than rebuffed is a huge red flag.

Again youre uninformed. Ukraine side officially declared that there is not "Empire from Star Wars and the Ghost of Kiev"
BTW what is your position on moskva flagship sinking? When russia officially acknowledged that it sunk due to normal conditions and missing conscripts from the ship never actually even boarded the flagship?

6) These first-hand accounts come from people that escaped. Especially the Reddit retards that went to fight thinking they were going to be the next Marvel Avengers. Needless to say, you automatically think all sources of information have to be Ukranian or Russian. I can think of 1 from the UK and 2 others from an English speaking country that was not divulged - all 3 individuals. Please, no 'muh russian troooools' comment, I am aware of the possibility. The statements of the surrendered Ukranian soldiers corroborate. Please, no 'muh russian proooopoooogoooondoooo' comment, I am aware of the possibility.

You seem to be experienced person to identify facts from fakes.
How did you exactly identify your "people that escaped" as actual escaped people and not some mosfilm actors?

7) I addressed Ukraine, not Russia.

You specifically addressed a political experience of a president, how come you hate Zelensky past so much but love putin's past and avoid replying to the comment?

8) I addressed Ukraine, not Russia.

You addressed corruption, how come you hate Zelensky corruption so much but love putin's corruption and avoid replying to the comment?

9) I addressed Ukraine, not Russia. Yes, people are saying Ukraine is winning. https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... ive-putin/ Although, now that it's becoming more obvious, they are coming around to the truth: https://www.newsweek.com/putin-thinks-w ... st-1712325.

Why not copy more from WP article?
"Russia’s initial offensive has failed." - True.
"The Russian offensive has already “culminated” — a military term meaning that an army can no longer continue attacking" - True.
"Ukrainian troops have counterattacked and driven the Russians away from Mykolaiv, a city of 470,000 people. As long as Mykolaiv remains free, the Russians cannot attack Odessa — Ukraine’s third-largest city and its biggest Black Sea port — by land and therefore cannot risk an amphibious assault from the sea, either." - True.
Should I continue?

Note that Putin's objective was never Kiev. It was always the Eastern part of Ukraine where the ethnic Russians are. As Putin has stated from the start - that was just propaganda, though, right?

How come you know so much what's inside putin's brain?
Speaking of Kyiv - never an objective, eh? So why did he send half of his army to encircle it instead of "liberating east of Ukraine"?

10) So... it's not a lot of them, and they fought Russians... so it's okay that they are committing war crimes and torture? Is that your argument?

Your comment was about "naZis" why you change it to war crimes, nothing to add?
But I'll take your bait. Speaking of war crimes. How come that the one and only supreme organization in the world to investigate war crimes (which russia is a part of btw) is investigating russian war crimes and not Ukrainian?

You make the assumption that this is a binary issue. But it's not. This whole thing was avoidable, as far as I can tell, if Ukraine had followed the Minsk Accords they signed, and now the whole world is paying the price. Both sides are partially at fault, but Ukraine doesn't deserve any pity or support.

But am I the only one? You do the same by only posting that Ukraine is bad, russia is good. Bit hypocritical, eh?
For example your minsk agreements: as far as I can tell russia was also part of them, no? And russia broke them at least two big times: invading Ukraine and prohibiting elections in temporarily occupied eastern Ukrainian territories.
And speaking of following international accords. Did you forget about Budapest memorandum when russia officially pledged to respect Ukraine's territory and sovereignty? Does these 2 documents prove that russia is unreliable partner and whose word cannot be trusted?

[enterisys]

Tears and joy from occupied territories civilians when ruskis "smoke near explosives" (watch with sound)

[enterisys]

A dose of russian fakes:
1) russian military reported wears trophy Ukrainian helmet, maybe to look cool? Or russian helmets are not good enough?
2) The machinery he is so bravely reporting about gets blown up during the video.

[Rubeus]

this is a war against Ukraine, and if you do not support Ukraine, you are supporting Russia.

That's a nice low-IQ, lukewarm take. I have to support one, huh? I'm either a Russian or a Ukranian? I can't be a Spaniard, a German, an American, or a freaking Somalian? I can't not want a war at all? Well, screw you and pushing your 100% false dichotomy

And so let me clarify: Screw the corrupt Ukraine regime.
Screw the Russians for starting another crappy war.
Screw the globalists for encouraging the war by sending weapons.
And in particular, screw people like you that are telling people that they HAVE to support one side or the other. Doubly so for this one.
I do not support the war, and I do not support Ukraine. I do not think money and weapons should be given to Ukraine, and I do not think money and weapons should be given to Russia.

But what are the previously mentionned troop doing in Ukraine then ? just tourism ? taking pictures and giving blankets ? its true that with all the propaganda one might think that, i will concede, but only one that is severly lacking of comon sense.

Since you call it impossible to verify it's literally a rumor : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rumor

This has already been discussed in the topic, i could say for example, yes but people says Putin has blood cancer and is already dead for a long time replaced by look-alike :
https://nypost.com/2022/05/14/russias-v ... recording/

I will concede this one is near impossible to verify, yet i'm still posting it, why not ? as a demonstrative example, do you want some more impossible to verify thing ? why would you post them in here in the first place ?

The Azov is in Ukraine because they are a Ukrainian troop. And I brought it up because there have been many allegations of war crimes. And look - you all are over here cheering the censorship of the news, then claiming stuff isn't real because the that side isn't publishing news that makes them look bad. Take it all with a grain of salt. And to say Ukraine is doing nothing wrong? Folly. It's rumor in the same way that Joe Biden working with Ukraine to launder money is rumor: it's not being investigated because the ones that WOULD investigate are censored.

But am I the only one? You do the same by only posting that Ukraine is bad, russia is good. Bit hypocritical, eh?

I don't know where anyone gets the 'Russia is good' narrative. You are so biased, you refuse to capitalize the name, which is just petulant. I don't know the text of all the treaties and accords. But I do know that the Minks accords are what Russia used as justification. Whether it was justified or not, I don't care - it shouldn't have happened, and they shouldn't have thought they needed to step in.

You clearly contradict yourself starting from very first statement: if you hate corruption so much why not hate russia in first place where curruption is higher (tenfold+ in USD levels).
And dont forget that EU gave 100+ billions of aid to russia for resources and only 2-3 to Ukraine. What is your position here when wealthy Europeans support your VERY corrupt country?

Wealthy people are free to spend their money wherever they'd like. I don't want MY money supporting a crappy war. And again, screw Russia, screw Ukraine. I am not Russian, nor Ukrainian, and your false dichotomies are childish.

If it's hard to tell why you are so brainwashed to believe that only russian propaganda is correct and any other opinion is automatically false?

It's hard to take you seriously when you accuse me of being brainwashed and can't even bring yourself to capitalize "Russia". Honestly. As I've stated, the news coming out of Ukraine has been a lot of news that is slanted, propaganda, and lies. Probably so for Russia as well - like I said, it needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Again, I point to the "Ghost of Kiev" and how they doubled down on it before finally saying "Yeah, we lied; but it was for morale!!"

So you confirm my point that he never left DURING the conflict. Thanks I guess.

That's fair enough. That was during the escalation before-hand, but I concede the point.

Again youre uninformed. Ukraine side officially declared that there is not "Empire from Star Wars and the Ghost of Kiev"
BTW what is your position on moskva flagship sinking? When russia officially acknowledged that it sunk due to normal conditions and missing conscripts from the ship never actually even boarded the flagship?

Yes, they did - after 'confirming' the Ghost of Kiev was real. "reports had named the ace as Major Stepan Tarabalka". As for the Moskva - I don't know, and I don't really care. Either way, it's one less vehicle in the fight.

You seem to be experienced person to identify facts from fakes.
How did you exactly identify your "people that escaped" as actual escaped people and not some mosfilm actors?

Well, if you look to the Ukrainian officials and media for everything, then Ukraine will never have done anything wrong. I take it all with a grain of salt, and the number of people making these similar claims - while it COULD be a Russian propaganda thing, it doesn't seem like it. Some of these guys are Redditors that were documenting their experience. It would have been interesting to continue reading, but they gave away their positions through those posts and got bombed.

[...]
Fake dichotomy stuff. I'm not going to defend Putin. My point is that Ukraine doesn't deserve international support.

How come you know so much what's inside putin's brain?
Speaking of Kyiv - never an objective, eh? So why did he send half of his army to encircle it instead of "liberating east of Ukraine"?

Yeah, strange. Great point. It couldn't be a standard military maneuver that forces a change in troop deployments to spread their military thin and provide less resistance to where they are cleaning up in the east. That would almost be as silly as just hitting all their top officials with hypersonic cruise missiles that Ukraine doesn't have a defense against and throwing their entire country into disarray. A silly person would think that things were done this way intentionally. /sarcasm

Your comment was about "naZis" why you change it to war crimes, nothing to add?
But I'll take your bait. Speaking of war crimes. How come that the one and only supreme organization in the world to investigate war crimes (which russia is a part of btw) is investigating russian war crimes and not Ukrainian?

Yes, the neo-Nazi battalion that is part of the Ukrainian military has been accused of multiple war crimes.

So let me try again. I do not support Ukraine, but this does not mean I support Russia. And don't try to tell me otherwise, because that would be stupid.

And the reason I posted this in the first place is because I don't like that a non-political business that I spend money with supports a political position I disagree with. As I said, supporting the medical efforts isn't bad - but I'd prefer everyone stay out. This should be treated like the whole Israel/Palestine thing that everyone generally ignores.

[enterisys]

Wealthy people are free to spend their money wherever they'd like. I don't want MY money supporting a crappy war. And again, screw Russia, screw Ukraine. I am not Russian, nor Ukrainian, and your false dichotomies are childish.

For someone who identifies as not russian (member of LBGTQIA+), it is just a coincidence you copy paste russian military tv without changing anything on the agenda. How convenient that you are so well informed on russian military tv content.
Copy pasting recycled material is exactly what gave you out.

It's hard to take you seriously when you accuse me of being brainwashed and can't even bring yourself to capitalize "Russia". Honestly. As I've stated, the news coming out of Ukraine has been a lot of news that is slanted, propaganda, and lies. Probably so for Russia as well - like I said, it needs to be taken with a grain of salt. Again, I point to the "Ghost of Kiev" and how they doubled down on it before finally saying "Yeah, we lied; but it was for morale!!"

I am sorry my grammar mistakes offended you so much. Internet is a ruthless place for uneducated kids without parental support.
Speaking a grain of salt, wasnt naZi aZoV news also from Ukraine, how come you took them as granted without your "grain of salt".

Yes, they did - after 'confirming' the Ghost of Kiev was real. "reports had named the ace as Major Stepan Tarabalka". As for the Moskva - I don't know, and I don't really care. Either way, it's one less vehicle in the fight.

But you lie. You clearly got triggered by some news about your "Ghost of Kiev" coming from Ukraine to come to this forum and spread "your truth", yet you ignore similar news from russia. You blind in one eye or something?

Well, if you look to the Ukrainian officials and media for everything, then Ukraine will never have done anything wrong. I take it all with a grain of salt, and the number of people making these similar claims - while it COULD be a Russian propaganda thing, it doesn't seem like it. Some of these guys are Redditors that were documenting their experience. It would have been interesting to continue reading, but they gave away their positions through those posts and got bombed.

Again there are many reporters in Ukraine from all over the world, yet you only believe what you read from russian military news.
Why so selective? You have troubles investigating evidence to identify facts?

Fake dichotomy stuff. I'm not going to defend Putin. My point is that Ukraine doesn't deserve international support.

Why fake? Because I clearly point out that you a) hate corruption b) hate bad politicians with shady past c) receives international support. Yet every a,b,c apply only to Ukraine in your selective view and corruption, bad politicians and external support in russia is a completely normal phenomenon that you're okay to live by and ignore?

Yeah, strange. Great point. It couldn't be a standard military maneuver that forces a change in troop deployments to spread their military thin and provide less resistance to where they are cleaning up in the east. That would almost be as silly as just hitting all their top officials with hypersonic cruise missiles that Ukraine doesn't have a defense against and throwing their entire country into disarray. A silly person would think that things were done this way intentionally. /sarcasm

But what about those 15 hundred hero paratroopers that were sent deep into the territory to be encircled and terminated? Was that also part of the plan to sacrifice the best of the best?
/sarcasm
/sarcasm off
Saying Ukraine doesn't have defence against fast hot projectiles is like saying russia has no defence against artillery shells. Not a single modern defence provide 100% protection, its the offence that matters. Look up why nukes are so dangerous. Hint - they are so complex that there is no defence against them.

Yes, the neo-Nazi battalion that is part of the Ukrainian military has been accused of multiple war crimes.

Yes, and why UN (russia is a member) is not investigating them? Maybe you should send the evidence if you have any of course. Don't forget to add the evidence that russia also has new-naZi and many of they are in the army.

So let me try again. I do not support Ukraine, but this does not mean I support Russia. And don't try to tell me otherwise, because that would be stupid.

Well it clearly does say you support russia, just look up a,b,c from above.

And the reason I posted this in the first place is because I don't like that a non-political business that I spend money with supports a political position I disagree with. As I said, supporting the medical efforts isn't bad - but I'd prefer everyone stay out.

This should be treated like the whole Israel/Palestine thing that everyone generally ignores.

What's palestine?

[mmmPI]

That's a nice low-IQ, lukewarm take. I have to support one, huh? I'm either a Russian or a Ukranian? I can't be a Spaniard, a German, an American, or a freaking Somalian? I can't not want a war at all? Well, screw you and pushing your 100% false dichotomy

So you start insulting people now ? screw you for pushing disinfomation against a country that is being targeted by the 2nd nuclear power. You low-IQ troll pretending to be the neutral voice of the world yet only here to insult people that are already suffering a war while pretending to be neutral, why not just do your life instead of publishing lies like this one :

So you confirm my point that he never left DURING the conflict. Thanks I guess.

That's fair enough. That was during the escalation before-hand, but I concede the point.

That's too bad the only things you said that seemed remotely backed up by facts from a 3rd party source end up being a complete lie due to you not reading the only sourced information you published. Yet you are the one calling other low-IQ.

And so let me clarify: Screw the corrupt Ukraine regime.
Screw the Russians for starting another crappy war.
Screw the globalists for encouraging the war by sending weapons.
And in particular, screw people like you that are telling people that they HAVE to support one side or the other. Doubly so for this one.
I do not support the war, and I do not support Ukraine. I do not think money and weapons should be given to Ukraine, and I do not think money and weapons should be given to Russia.

Your misinformed opinion repeated several time doesn't make it more true, more smart, more wise or wathever.

"Sending weapon is encouraging a war". This is wrong, Had Ukraine kepts its nuclear weapon Russia wouldn't have dared to attack them. But they gave them away, counting on the Budapest memorandum where security guarantees where given by UK USA and Russia.

Clearly Russia is not respecting this treaty they signed, the 2 others however are respecting their part of the treaty in an attempt at making the war launched by Russia so costly that it would come to an end. And they are having success on this front, by cutting of the funding for the russian war machine, they are actually trying to stop a war.

Feel free to inform yourself on the treaties you don't know and come up with an other way for those 2 countries to respect their words of bringing security to Ukraine.

The Azov is in Ukraine because they are a Ukrainian troop. And I brought it up because there have been many allegations of war crimes. And look - you all are over here cheering the censorship of the news, then claiming stuff isn't real because the that side isn't publishing news that makes them look bad. Take it all with a grain of salt. And to say Ukraine is doing nothing wrong? Folly. It's rumor in the same way that Joe Biden working with Ukraine to launder money is rumor: it's not being investigated because the ones that WOULD investigate are censored.

You brought it up because you are propagating russian narratives, otherwise why not talk about the Wagner group comiting war crime in Ukraine and all over the world ? or that time Putin bombed and killed hundred of people in Moscow in order to justify its war against Chechnya ? Or that time putin poisonned people that were claiming he was a pedophile ?

https://www.thedailybeast.com/alexander ... -pedophile
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_a ... t_bombings
https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/ ... es-belarus
https://www.bellingcat.com/news/2022/03 ... 15-murder/

Also where did you see me cheering the censorship of the news ? nowhere again a lie.

But am I the only one? You do the same by only posting that Ukraine is bad, russia is good. Bit hypocritical, eh?

I don't know where anyone gets the 'Russia is good' narrative. You are so biased, you refuse to capitalize the name, which is just petulant. I don't know the text of all the treaties and accords. But I do know that the Minks accords are what Russia used as justification. Whether it was justified or not, I don't care - it shouldn't have happened, and they shouldn't have thought they needed to step in.

You don't know how to properly attribute quote because you put words in my name that i haven't written. Also this is AGAIN a gross lie, the Minsk agreement were signed in september 2014, what did Russia used as justification for its invasion attempt in March 2014 ? That couldn't possibly be the Minsk agreement that was not yet signed.
It shouldn't have happened, this is correct, this is also the reason why so many countries of the wolrd are helping Ukraine. 141 countries voted to condemn russian invasion. Wether you care personnaly or not doesn't change those facts at all.

Wealthy people are free to spend their money wherever they'd like. I don't want MY money supporting a crappy war. And again, screw Russia, screw Ukraine. I am not Russian, nor Ukrainian, and your false dichotomies are childish.

You are free to spend your money wherever you like, no-one care about your money. Why complain on this forum if your goverment support a war with "your money" you'd better complain about your government no? As like they are the one taking your money and sending it to Ukraine no ?

it's ok you dont support Ukraine, you don't support Russia, you are just here to explain that you don't want to be involved while posting lies and rumors over the suffering Ukrainians repeatdly which is taking a side while at the same time saying you don't want to take a side.

Yeah, strange. Great point. It couldn't be a standard military maneuver that forces a change in troop deployments to spread their military thin and provide less resistance to where they are cleaning up in the east. That would almost be as silly as just hitting all their top officials with hypersonic cruise missiles that Ukraine doesn't have a defense against and throwing their entire country into disarray. A silly person would think that things were done this way intentionally. /sarcasm

"cleaning up" interesting terms to choose for describing war crimes while pretending to be neutral.

Loosing 15K soldier trying to take Kyiv was all part of the plan to confuse the west if i understand your sarcasm ?

So let me try again. I do not support Ukraine, but this does not mean I support Russia. And don't try to tell me otherwise, because that would be stupid.

And the reason I posted this in the first place is because I don't like that a non-political business that I spend money with supports a political position I disagree with. As I said, supporting the medical efforts isn't bad - but I'd prefer everyone stay out. This should be treated like the whole Israel/Palestine thing that everyone generally ignores.

You keep saying people are stupid, but you come here and post tons of crap on a topic that you end up saying people should ignore. You sane bro ?

[Rubeus]

It can't possibly be that people have different ethical concerns from yourselves, and therefore you must assign a role as a troll or a Russian propagandist. No need for logical dialog here, right?

The fact that you 2 are stuck in this dichotomy is sad - it seems the best anyone can come up with is the "Russia is evil" talking points(AKA propaganda from the other side) rather than a logical reason why I should support the defense of a nation that nobody cared about previously. I really wish you could use your brains a little better. Discussing things with warmongers is never pleasant. And yes, you are acting like warmongers. I gave up reading and responding to the replies.

Anyway. The point:

I don't support Ukraine. I don't support my country or any other country funding them with money or weapons, and I don't even like my money being used towards medical aid to support casualties in a pointless battle. I wish the whole thing would have stayed mired in obscurity for the rest of the world as it did when Russia annexed Crimea.

And I think it's a mistake for a company to politicize a previously unpolitical business in such a way.

[mmmPI]

It can't possibly be that people have different ethical concerns from yourselves, and therefore you must assign a role as a troll or a Russian propagandist. No need for logical dialog here, right?

You posted factually inacurate information, and misquoted person, then not responding to their question, after calling one person low IQ.

You can try to blame the others for not having a logic dialog instead of confronting your ignorance and self-contradiction that is not going to lower you credibility anymore.

I don't even like my money being used towards medical aid to support casualties in a pointless battle. I wish the whole thing would have stayed mired in obscurity for the rest of the world as it did when Russia annexed Crimea.

And I think it's a mistake for a company to politicize a previously unpolitical business in such a way.

There are treaties that you are ignorant about like the budapest memorandum signed in 1994 or the Russian Ukrainian friendship treaty from 1997 that were signed and involve other party in the war Russia launched against Ukraine.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian%E ... hip_Treaty
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Budapest_ ... Assurances

Then probably because of your self-centered nature you don't realize that a global food crisis is occuring that makes 3rd party innocent countries suffer from the war due to their food being bombed or stolen by Russia when it's not used as a bargain lever to try and make other countries renounce their promises to defend the sovereignty of Ukraine.

Now you could wish the whole thing would have stayed mired in obscurity but then you'd be completly ignorant about why the food prices are so high no ? Since you seem to care so much about your money and your little person ?

Also it wouldn't have happened if Russia didn't launched a full scale war involving 200 000 soldier of them right ? i mean if you launch a full scale attack claiming you are fighting to curtail NATO or find USA bioweapon and call the United Nation 3 times for that or claim you are fighting the global west , show simulation of nukes falling on cities populated by millions of people, then it's impossible for things to stay mired in obscurity despite your naive wish don't you think ?

I even find hard to believe such low ethic as to say you wish things happened quietly rather than things didn't happen. You wish Russian can annex Ukraine and no-one would care for the million of people suffering rather than wishing for a peace that didn't cause any harm to millions of human and didn't bring to brother countrie in a bloody pointless war ?