We support Ukraine

[jodokus31]

Lets suppose that this war had not happened and that Ukraine had become part of Nato, AND nuclear weapons had been stationed in Ukraine. Can you rationally explain how this makes a war of aggression by Nato against Russia more likely, because I just cant see it?

Let's assume Russia, China, India, Brazil and so on, found a defensive alliance. Then they would ask Mexico to join.
What do you think will happen?

NATO didnt ask or force anyone to join them, its the countries that feel threatened by russia join NATO. russia forces countries to join NATO.

I would say, "countries feel threatened" and "NATO asked/offered". No proof yet, though.
But that doesn't answer the question

[CSO]

Lets suppose that this war had not happened and that Ukraine had become part of Nato, AND nuclear weapons had been stationed in Ukraine. Can you rationally explain how this makes a war of aggression by Nato against Russia more likely, because I just cant see it?

Let's assume Russia, China, India, Brazil and so on, found a defensive alliance. Then they would ask Mexico to join.
What do you think will happen?

NATO didnt ask or force anyone to join them, its the countries that feel threatened by russia join NATO. russia forces countries to join NATO.

Exactly. That was the point I was trying to make earlier - and in turn Russia would feel more threatened knowing that NATO / US boots etc.. would now encircle that part of Russia,if Ukraine became a NATO member. Latvia etc.. joined NATO for protection, not aggression, but maybe Russia saw it as a further threat from the West and Democracy.

[enterisys]

The biggest mistake is to consider Ukraine as a united country. Those who have been to northern and southern Italy can roughly imagine what I'm talking about.

74% supported current president, any more fakes?

n December 2021 a Levada Center poll found that 65% approved of Putin personally, That jumped to 69% who had a positive view of Putin in January 2022, and 71% who approved of the Russian president in February 2022 .

How exactly russians supporting putin are relavant to Ukraine being democratic country?

[mmmPI]

I would say, "countries feel threatened" and "NATO asked/offered". No proof yet, though.
But that doesn't answer the question

NATO official policy is the "open door" everyone is free to ask to enter.

https://www.nato.int/nato_static_fl2014 ... nt-eng.pdf

[enterisys]

I would say, "countries feel threatened" and "NATO asked/offered". No proof yet, though.
But that doesn't answer the question

Please stop with no proof bullshit: Moldova has russian army station - wants to join NATO, Georgia has russian army station - wants to join NATO, Ukraine has russian army station - wants to join NATO.

[tuhe]

I did not say the west is to blame - i pointed out that the speaker in the video suggests this. I'm not 'buying' into the bs undercurrents of 'Us vs Them'
in this forum which is abundantly obvious.

Fair enough -- but people suggest all sorts of things on this issue. Putting out a controversial/inflammatory view on this subject without qualifying which parts (if any) you feel are persuasive is imo not such a great basis for a discussion, especially when this topic has been endlessly bombarded by videos.

As I pointed out to mmmPI - I should have specified that the video came out around the 4th March 2022. I simply needed to make myself clear about where I stand. Right in the middle with humanity. I want to have a better understanding of why this has occurred. I take offence only when someone tries to force their views upon me or tries to tell me what I can and can't say. I'm not anti Russian or anti Ukrainian or anti US. We all bleed the same color blood! And no matter what happens in Ukraine, one way or the other, it is already a devastated land!
In what way was I inflammatory/controversial? I made no outrageous comments or suggestions - I simply offered it (video link) explaining what it was generally about, for another point of view, for you, and others, to make up your mind if you watch it and if it was of interest/relevant.
Why should I point out persuasive parts - that not for me to do , that's for you to work out.
Am I not right with my comment with the 'undercurrent' comment - I'm capable of seeing what has transpired throughout this forum if this is what you are referring to. I wasn't forcing anyone to watch it. If you took offence to this, I'm sorry, but that's on you, not me.

So you have found the middle ground between the country which is having its cities destroyed by bombs and the country which is dropping the bombs? How centrist! The same could have been said in 1943.

And no matter what happens in Ukraine, one way or the other, it is already a devastated land!

so..?

[Djmixxx]

How exactly russians supporting putin are relavant to Ukraine being democratic country?

As much as you need, so much interest will be drawn to you. Just do not confuse the president and the real authorities in the country.

[mmmPI]

Let's assume Russia, China, India, Brazil and so on, found a defensive alliance. Then they would ask Mexico to join.
What do you think will happen?

Mexico would say no after a visit of some representative of big corporation

[jodokus31]

Why do you think they do not want to enforce a 'no fly zone' as has been requested by Ukraine? If they interfere, or supply aircraft to Ukraine, enforcing this, it will be taken as military aggression by USA towards Russia, which is part of the reason Russia has gone into Ukraine (concerns that Ukraine would becomes part of Nato ) the overall concern is that it will become WWIII b/w Russia and the US. And the real threat of Nuclear war...

Here we go again about NATO Ukraine.
How exactly a defensive military alliance is a threat to russia considering Latvia (NATO member) is already bordering russia and can set up NATO nukes some 550kms from moscow?
It is obviously a threat to further conquest of ex-ussr states, and THAT is the real reason for the invasion. putin just wants new territories and not some mythical NATO.
NATO threat to russia is fake news for russian babushkas watching TV. It's a threat to putin's ambitions, nothing more.
Dont remember NATO conquering/invading any states, yet russian history is full of invasions with putin or his predecessors.

That's a one sided opinion/view as you don't have any proof for that, right?

I think it is fair to say that the question asked was the opinion, it's highly speculative if you ask "why do you think X doesn't want " how can you proove ? you just say what you think. enterisys had a clear stance since the beginning and has said this already.

The fact that Latvia touches Russia and is part of NATO is public knowledge provided you can place Latvia on a map, which is tricky

Fair, it's already an opinion. An opinion which says "xyz is fake news" and "THAT is the real....". So it tries to claim to be more than an opinion....
For the record, I don't contest the statements about latvia

[mmmPI]

Why do you think they do not want to enforce a 'no fly zone' as has been requested by Ukraine? If they interfere, or supply aircraft to Ukraine, enforcing this, it will be taken as military aggression by USA towards Russia, which is part of the reason Russia has gone into Ukraine (concerns that Ukraine would becomes part of Nato ) the overall concern is that it will become WWIII b/w Russia and the US. And the real threat of Nuclear war...

Here we go again about NATO Ukraine.
How exactly a defensive military alliance is a threat to russia considering Latvia (NATO member) is already bordering russia and can set up NATO nukes some 550kms from moscow?
It is obviously a threat to further conquest of ex-ussr states, and THAT is the real reason for the invasion. putin just wants new territories and not some mythical NATO.
NATO threat to russia is fake news for russian babushkas watching TV. It's a threat to putin's ambitions, nothing more.
Dont remember NATO conquering/invading any states, yet russian history is full of invasions with putin or his predecessors.

That's a one sided opinion/view as you don't have any proof for that, right?

I think it is fair to say that the question asked was the opinion, it's highly speculative if you ask "why do you think X doesn't want " how can you proove ? you just say what you think. enterisys had a clear stance since the beginning and has said this already.

The fact that Latvia touches Russia and is part of NATO is public knowledge provided you can place Latvia on a map, which is tricky

Fair, it's already an opinion. An opinion which says "xyz is fake news" and "THAT is the real....". So it tries to claim to be more than an opinion....
For the record, I don't contest the statements about latvia

yeah both are opinions claiming to be more than this.
The part about Latvia is because i mistook it with Estonia earlier

[Djmixxx]

For the record, I don't contest the statements about latvia

As for Latvia, it won't work. For some reason, they like to choose only one requirement from Russians lists. But the fact is that these requirements are related to each other and work together. And here Latvia is not so suitable.

[jodokus31]

I would say, "countries feel threatened" and "NATO asked/offered". No proof yet, though.
But that doesn't answer the question

Please stop with no proof bullshit: Moldova has russian army station - wants to join NATO, Georgia has russian army station - wants to join NATO, Ukraine has russian army station - wants to join NATO.

I'm allowed to share my opinion. Please, don't insult me

[Djmixxx]

Let's assume Russia, China, India, Brazil and so on, found a defensive alliance. Then they would ask Mexico to join.
What do you think will happen?

Mexico would say no after a visit of some representative of big corporation

All this took place during the Caribbean crisis. Full Internet of the Information on the actions of countries.
But. The main argument here is that nothing in the past has the right to explain the current.

[mmmPI]

Let's assume Russia, China, India, Brazil and so on, found a defensive alliance. Then they would ask Mexico to join.
What do you think will happen?

Mexico would say no after a visit of some representative of big corporation

All this took place during the Caribbean crisis. Full Internet of the Information on the actions of countries.
But. The main argument here is that nothing in the past has the right to explain the current.

Can you please try to rephrase it with another translation ? your sentence has no clear meaning.
Proof of the alliance ?

[enterisys]

How exactly russians supporting putin are relavant to Ukraine being democratic country?

As much as you need, so much interest will be drawn to you. Just do not confuse the president and the real authorities in the country.

English please.

[enterisys]

I would say, "countries feel threatened" and "NATO asked/offered". No proof yet, though.
But that doesn't answer the question

Please stop with no proof bullshit: Moldova has russian army station - wants to join NATO, Georgia has russian army station - wants to join NATO, Ukraine has russian army station - wants to join NATO.

I'm allowed to share my opinion. Please, don't insult me

Claiming a proof is not a proof is not an opinion. You either provide facts or stop being annoying.

[jodokus31]

Let's assume Russia, China, India, Brazil and so on, found a defensive alliance. Then they would ask Mexico to join.
What do you think will happen?

Mexico would say no after a visit of some representative of big corporation

All this took place during the Caribbean crisis. Full Internet of the Information on the actions of countries.
But. The main argument here is that nothing in the past has the right to explain the current.

Do you mean Cuban crysis? That was quite similar and was resolved without WW with a compromise. (to find or follow a way between extremes)

[mmmPI]

Claiming a proof is not a proof is not an opinion. You either provide facts or stop being annoying.

You sounds an awful lot like djimixxx

[mmmPI]

Do you mean Cuban crysis? That was quite similar and was resolved without WW with a compromise. (to find or follow a way between extremes)

That's different, in Cuba there WAS nuclear missile, in Ukraine there is no nuke, like if the USA invade Mexico now because it claims maybe it will go in an alliance with someone else.

I mean the compromise was the removal of the missile right ? after a fail invasion attempt ? we got the failing invasion attempt, but one cannot remove missile if there is no missile !

[Djmixxx]

How exactly russians supporting putin are relavant to Ukraine being democratic country?

As much as you need, so much interest will be drawn to you. Just do not confuse the president and the real authorities in the country.

English please.

Vladimir Alexandrovich Zelensky
He began his political career in 2019 and ran in the 2019 presidential elections in Ukraine. Based on the voting results, he was elected the 6th President of Ukraine.
Incredible political career, full of long years of work for the benefit of the Ukraina, before he became president. But he's a good comedian.

During 2015-2018, Volodymyr Zelenskyy played the role of Vasily Goloborodko, a history teacher who is elected President of Ukraine, in the TV series Servant of the People. The TV series was repeatedly accused of political advertising, and the first three episodes of the third season of the series aired immediately before the first round of the presidential elections in Ukraine in 2019, in which Volodymyr Zelensky took part as a nominee of the Servant of the People party of the same name as the TV series. and received the most votes. After winning the second round of elections, he was elected to the post of President of UkraineGo to the section "Presidential campaign (2019)"