Version 0.18.2

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Serenity
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Re: Version 0.18.2

Post by Serenity »

Mhh, those sounds will take some getting used to. Not bad, but a lot of high pitched stuff there

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fishycat
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Re: Version 0.18.2

Post by fishycat »

My first reflex was: pressing ESC and decrease volume by a lot. I haven`t been in the sound-options since years. To be fair, some new sounds, like the roboport and there is this swish sometimes when you walk around, awesome.
Most disturbing sounds are belts and new radar sounds like a rusty old grinding-wheel.

My vote is don`t change the sounds. In this regards game experience and feeling is suffering.

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Re: Version 0.18.2

Post by Instant Mix »

I'll be honest, I'm not the biggest fan of some of the new sounds. The phrase "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" comes to mind.

I understand that the devs will want to shape things in a particular direction, and maybe revisiting some of the sounds is a necessary part of that. But replacing some of these sounds with versions that I would argue aren't as good as the original might not be the best way forward.

For example:
metallic-chest-open & metallic-chest-close - both these sounds lack a satisfying open & close transient, sounding more like a sliding door than a box being opened and shut. Even though machine-open & machine-close sound like a (wooden) door being opened rather than a box, they convey the idea of opening and closing something far more effectively with the visceral timbre. The inserter sounds also have a similar issue imo; they sound like metal rubbing against itself ( you know, the not particularly pleasant kind ) and definitely not something you want to be hearing constantly all the time. The variation in pitch does convey the action of moving to drop and back again. Transport belts suffer too, whilst this does sound realistically more like a motor running in the background, it's exactly that - a rather annoying sound at a particular pitch that gets a bit grating over time. The express belts almost remind me of a CRT hum; that's not a good thing.

Don't get me wrong, I'm glad some sounds are being looked at and replaced, the gates for example sound much meatier and nicer, but I don't think all sounds need to be replaced for the sake of changing things, especially when said replacement can be worse than the original for different reasons.

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Drury
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Re: Version 0.18.2

Post by Drury »

Deadlock989 wrote:
Tue Jan 28, 2020 6:56 pm
But the red and blue belts are deep, deep into dentist's drill territory. Have already modded them out. The yellow belt is tolerable.
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Re: Version 0.18.2

Post by DBotThePony »

New conveyor sound is not that bad (at least on my headphones, i use cloud core), but it definitely needs volume cut, or it would be earrape. Old sound had same properties, but at least it was much more quiet and thus it did not create any pressure on ears.

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Re: Version 0.18.2

Post by dyce »

I have to agree with most people here, the fast transport belt sound is really annoying. I also dont like the new train sound, it sounds more like a little electric train of some sort, really does not have that feeling of a massive machine.

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Deztro
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Re: Version 0.18.2

Post by Deztro »

Found a bug.
I've upgraded from 0.17.59 to 0.18.2 and started a new world.
I can't put in half a stack of coal into steam inserters (Ctrl+Right mouse), only full stacks.
As far as i can see it's only with steam inserters, not with other things.

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Re: Version 0.18.2

Post by Koub »

Deztro wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:27 am
Found a bug.
I've upgraded from 0.17.59 to 0.18.2 and started a new world.
I can't put in half a stack of coal into steam inserters (Ctrl+Right mouse), only full stacks.
As far as i can see it's only with steam inserters, not with other things.
If you found a bug, please make a bug report in the Bug report subforum.
Koub - Please consider English is not my native language.

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Deztro
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Re: Version 0.18.2

Post by Deztro »

Koub wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:42 am
Deztro wrote:
Wed Jan 29, 2020 7:27 am
Found a bug.
I've upgraded from 0.17.59 to 0.18.2 and started a new world.
I can't put in half a stack of coal into steam inserters (Ctrl+Right mouse), only full stacks.
As far as i can see it's only with steam inserters, not with other things.
If you found a bug, please make a bug report in the Bug report subforum.
Done ! Sorry about posting it here, new user on this forum :roll:

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Re: Version 0.18.2

Post by DanGio »

If I understand correctly, there can't be more than 3 machines playing the same sound at once :
labs.jpg
labs.jpg (160.12 KiB) Viewed 1699 times

This is very fine for labs.

The new pumpjack sound however has a really distinct splash sound at the very beginning, like a cymbal hit, followed by a quieter pipe sound. Because of this high contrast, the player identifies easily different pumpjacks by their splash sound attack, and easily realize that there's a 2 or 3 maximum pumpjacks sounds playing at the same time, even if there's 10 on screen. Also, when moving around with character, a lot of obvious starting and stopping sound happen as the closest pumpjacks change. This kinda breaks immersion.

I see 2 solutions : make this sound more homogenous to hide this, or raise the limit of simultaneous playing sounds. But then, I fear oil fields sound like a huge cymbal roll :)

Edit: rephrased for clarity's sake
Last edited by DanGio on Wed Jan 29, 2020 12:24 pm, edited 1 time in total.

Sopenas
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Re: Version 0.18.2

Post by Sopenas »

I did not like new inserter sounds. They are not pleasant to hear. Also assembly machines sounds are worse. Previously I used to just stand and listen to their "music"

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Re: Version 0.18.2

Post by Filter62 »

New belt sounds is awful (Only yellow is fine), I hope they do something about them. (At least make them quieter or something) They're drilling into my ears, really reminds about dentist :shock: I don't like them too much ヽ(゚Д゚)ノ. And train sound is more like a toy now, doesn't feel like heavy train, moving sound is nice, I guess it's engine sound problem. (it Really feels like electric car)

Main problem I see, that new sounds not that good when sped-up. =/ (Belts/train)

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Re: Version 0.18.2

Post by Illiou »

My biggest concern is the entity-destroyed sound. It sounds like some far-off metal clang, not like a notification. For the first few minutes I was just wondering what machine made this weird metal clang sound, not even realizing there is something of importance happening. And even after realizing what the sounds belongs to I could see myself not noticing it until half of my base is destroyed...

Edit: also I just noticed the walking sounds named dirt-1-xx sound like wet rubber boots which are suctioning your feet :?

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fishycat
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Re: Version 0.18.2

Post by fishycat »

After some more tests, I found out I was blaming poor radar for nothing. Must have had some other sound in ear yesterday. So radar is off the hook :D

Not sure yet about the new entity-destroyed sound and when you mine rails.

New train sounds weird somehow, out of place.

With most of the rest I heard so far I can live or are better than before.

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Re: Version 0.18.2

Post by T-A-R »

Gonna miss the AM3 bass line. The new inserter/assembler combination sound seem to have way less depth in general. The machines aren't making music anymore: its not a mix of high and lows anymore, shifted all to mid (trying to describe my feelings here, avoiding the word 'noise'). And those belts... please lubricate them, i invest in them to run smooth.

While the wagons have better sound, i miss the powerful burner engine locomotive (not those electric witchcraft like they use in trams).

The new alert does repeat better, but does not really alert anymore. And is not sci-fi anymore. I agree on missing the bot sound, like a flock of bird companions. You should know how many of my partners guitar recordings include those birbs:p
Last edited by T-A-R on Wed Jan 29, 2020 9:05 pm, edited 1 time in total.

fighting.dreamer
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Re: Version 0.18.2

Post by fighting.dreamer »

I'm very sad because I not longer hear these cute robots :( .
Inserters and belts feels weird, like they will break apart in any moment.

In my opinion 0.17 aesthetics was close to final, don't push changes too much because you can overdo it :)
Maybe you feeling like it's not good enough, but I can assure you this game 0.17 was close to perfection.

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Optera
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Re: Version 0.18.2

Post by Optera »

The new train sounds seem to be made by someone who never has heard a real freight train.
Wagons used to produce a quite nice and distinct tak-tak, happening when wheels bounce over rail joints. Locomotives had a pleasant engine noise.

Now wagon wheels have way too much base, reminding me more of techno base line than trains. Locomotive engine sounds are so silent and pathetic I had to listen very closely to even notice it's still there.

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Re: Version 0.18.2

Post by Impatient »

Here is my feedback on the new sounds (as far as I noticed them):

- Offshore pump: Too loud and annyoing. Sounds like a fast spinning electric motor. Sound is on also if it isn't pumping anything (not connected to anything).

- Boiler: sounds fine

- Pump: I can not hear any sound (but that is ok)

- Pumpjack: Ugly and confusing. New sound reminds me like steam hissing or metal smashed together far away. The old sound of a squieking axle and some thick fluid pumped fit better by far.

- Substation: Sounds very good. The deep hum and some high pitched discharge sounds are very substation-like imo.

- Roboport: I love it! Robots talking to each other or to themselfs makes me smile every time i hear it.

- Robots: I like that you made some robots a bit abnormal. Outof the norm or half broken is what I associate with it. BUT, they are very loud and they never shut up. It can be really annoying. I worked on something and next to me was a roboport where suddenly a whole lot of robots had to wait to recharge. Amongst those were two "talkers". They were jabbering their ill talk the whole 30 seconds or minute the were waiting there. That was too much. I think it could be improved by letting them only talk for several 10s of seonds and then they shut up again. But not randomly all robots, but only the ill ones. Also make their jabber a bit less noisy. Also - the robots in my personal roboports are the finest and of perfect quality. They never make any loud ill sounds. If any, only pleasant sounds. Please consider this.

In general I love robots talking and I like that you give them some more personality and life. The roboport sounds are super and I only could wish for some contextual expressions for the robots themselfs. To me the thought, that a robot, a mechnical, computerised machine shows some emotional expression, is intrinsic very funny and I never stop to be entertained by it. Eg if they should deliver or pick up something but when they arrive and it can not be done, then some of them sound disgruntled or confused. Some sound happy, when they can settle down in a roboport. Some sound happy or whiny when they have to go to work. Others sound marveled once they build something. If they get damaged they make pain sounds if they are damaged they sound hurt. If tehy get destroyed they screech. If they repair something, they make encouraging and soothing sounds. If they travel alongside, they talk to each other like work mates. If hundrets depart a roboport at the same time, they make encouraging sounds or cheer.

Here is an idea for the current ill-talk: What about, that the chance for a robot to ill-talk is much higher, when it is damaged? This would also make the player aware that somewhere there is danger to the robots.

- Train: NO! Just no! Really -NOOOOOO! Is the sound engineer trying to sabotage the game development? How can you let anyone ruin the sound of the train engine that much? This must be a palceholder sound. I can not explain it anyhow else. Do me the favor, give yourself a good portion of your own medicine and drive around in a train fueld with rocket fuel. Do you hear that? You must be nostalgics and you are trying to get back to the c64 sound era ... https://youtu.be/oHP3QvE8dCQ?t=105 haha. :?

- The rocket takeoff: I it is good. But I think it would profit a lot from more bass. There should be a roaring thunder when a roacket is launched. Currently it sounds a bit missle-ish.

- The car or what looks like a buggy never sounded like a car to me. I just don't know what that sound you put in there is supposed to be. Here is a sound of a hill climber. Only listen, don't watch and imagine the factory car. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fGQ_fgDzPb4 Way more fun! :-D

- The tank: I guess the sound of the tank is a pass. Though it is faint and pathetic. A tank is very loud. Here is the sound of a ww2 tank: https://youtu.be/nTrt_qPXmQY?t=83

- Belts + ubelts: I don't know ... Way too loud! And I don't like the high pitched noise. The express underground belt sound is more like it. Less intrusive. Still too loud. That sound would be better suited for all of the belts. You have to imagine that those sounds will accompany the player most of the time. Belts usually are everywhere. The noise of belts, u-belts and splitters should be very faint, or they will be some stressing background noise.

- Underground belt and fast underground belt: No sound can be heared.

- Splitters: I like the sound. It is good. Still the overall remark on belt loudness applies.

- Entity destroyed alert: Better than the old one. Less intrusive. Good for something that possibly can be heared very often.

- Shot gun: That is not the sound of a shotgun blast. That is the sound of a real life shotgun blast: https://youtu.be/04u4K5eMMw0?t=4

- Small explosion sound: I don't know why small things like power poles explode at all. The sound does not fit for an explosion at all. Please compare the exploding sound of a gun turret and rails. First why do rails explode, 2nd the explosion of rails sound really good, like an explosion but the explosion of a gun turret sounds like a joke.

- Listener position centered on view: I rather not have this. I liked standing next to the thundering artillery (great sound!) and watching the worms die in the far away thunder. Being able to hear things everywhere on the map as if it was right next to the palyer is weird and it can be exploitet. Think PvP.

- "environment-audible-distance setting increased to 30": Really? The character is standing 20 tiles away from a firing artillery and the transport belt right next to the character is louder than the shots. Zoom is so the monitor width spans 40 tiles (artillery is at edge of screen). This appears really unbalanced to me.


As a summary: On some sounds you met my personla tastes on others you absolutley failed. And as I read other comments I am not the only one the feel like you failed on those particulars. Please get your bearings right. Are you or is your sound engineer able to listen to youtube videos? This should be a job qualitfication criteria for a sound engineer. I am horrified of the thought, that some of those sounds are going to be in the final release.

If you are unsure what the sounds should be - which sounds are apealing to the users - make a vote amongst the forum users. Don't be shy to do it.

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BattleFluffy
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Re: Version 0.18.2

Post by BattleFluffy »

I have played for some hours now, and here is my detailed thoughts about the new sounds, starting with the things I feel most strongly about:


New sound tech includes:
Listener position set to centre of screen by default. This will allow you to hear what you see even when in map mode.


This is a cool idea but having tried it, I think I preferred it being set to the player's location.
Previously I would find a nice location in my factory, with comforting sounds of industry, and look at the map from there.
Now it feels weird to look at the map and hear sounds from a radar image. I feel like I'm not tied to my body anymore.

If the listener position goes back to being at the player's location, I also think the map's Zoom Level should not affect the volume. It should be fixed at the value of the player's "not-in-map" zoom level to give the best sense of connectedness to the player's character, and reinforce that the radar image seen on the map is (potentially) far away.



All transport belts, splitters, inserters, assembling machines, power switch.

I play in lategame, so I always use only blue belts. I think the blue transport belt is far too whiny. As others pointed out, it sounds like a dentist drill. Like the roboport, this is a sound the player will hear a LOT, so it needs to sound delicious. :> I had a think about what I personally would do if I was making a sound effect for belts, and to be honest I really have no clue how I would do it. It's really hard to make something good that doesn't get annoying after a while, and adequately conveys the belty nature of the object. All I can suggest is to try a bunch of different options, and we'll fall all over ourselves to tell you if you hit on a good one. :> The transport belt sound effect is super important so I definitely think it's worth spending extra time to make sure it's right.

The inserters sound good with the different tones for different arm directions. However long-handed inserter (and perhaps others) has a "creaky door" effect within it, I dislike that.



Pump, pumpjack, boiler, heat pipe, offshore pump, substation.

I love these new sounds, they are awesome. I didn't hear the heat pipe yet but I heard all the others and they are really cool. :>

Listening to the offshore pump on the map, I noticed that pressing A or D and moving the screen slightly away from it, would make it cut out very abruptly. Then panning the screen back towards it, it would start playing again very abruptly. It's particularly noticeable with pumps/offshore pumps because they make a constant sound, rather than an intermittent one.

The same thing happens (to a lesser degree) when I run past with a lot of exoskeletons. I think it's mainly an issue on the map, as we can scroll around significantly faster than any train or vehicle.

I could propose a solution. Create a "maximum delta" for sound changes, so they aren't allowed to rise or fall in volume by more than some fixed value per update. If it's expressed in percent, an example would be to not allow more than a 5% volume change per game update. Then it would take about 350ms to fade up from 0 to full volume, and vice versa.


Logistic and construction robots, roboport.

I play with roboports everywhere - a full mesh grid with perfect spacing. So everywhere I go, there is now this particular tone playing. It's a nice tone, but I wish it wouldn't be playing continously like that, it gets slightly annoying after a few hours.


Rocket takeoff sequence.

The door opening sound is great. The sound of the rocket itself left me wanting... I feel like it needs some thundering, oversaturated bass. A real rocket launch also sometimes makes a series of short sharp "ripping the air" sounds, once it starts getting higher. Example: https://youtu.be/OnoNITE-CLc?t=102
That sort of effect might be quite cool to include, it's a nice detail to prevent it being too droney.

One issue I noticed with the rocket launch is that if you are not close to it when it starts, but arrive (or look at it on the map) when it's already halfway airborne, it doesn't seem to make any sound. It could also be that I was looking at the rocket, which is now some ways above the rocket silo, where the actual sound source is located. If that's the case, perhaps the sound source of the rocket should follow the rocket's position instead of staying at the silo.


Train.

These are some cool sounds, but I feel like the levels aren't right. It's very subtle, I had to zoom in a lot to hear it. I'm unable to comment on whether it sounds like a real train or not.


Added some UI sounds that were missing.

I liked all the additions I heard. :> I still wish for sound effects for shift-right-click and shift-left-click. There is no visual or audible confirmation that these operations succeeded at the moment, unless the object visibly changes recipe, which isn't always the case (one example of this is train stops).



The ability to turn off the Doppler effect in Lua, used for the Substation so far.

I didn't notice this yet but Doppler effect is so cool.


environment-audible-distance setting increased to 30 so you can hear entities a bit further away.
zoom-volume-coefficient changed so you can hear more of the world when you zoom out. This will help with combat and give a greater sense of the overall factory.

I didn't notice much effect from these, but they sound like good changes. Will the increased number of sound sources have much of a penalty on performance?

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Re: Version 0.18.2

Post by netmand »

oh no! The sounds of the factory aren't pleasant? oh the irony is delectable.

I think they should make the volume of the environment sounds -not- adjustable unless you can craft earplugs... it can be a 1x1 item that plugs into that annoying extra slot left over from installing the BIE.

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