[0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

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BinarySpike
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[0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

Post by BinarySpike »

See images below for issue.

Started my first non-peaceful game (just launched a rocket on peaceful). I switched to hostile enemies. After a bit, two spawners spawned literally in my base.
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someloser
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Re: [0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

Post by someloser »

I can report the same thing. A Biter spawner and a big worm set up camp near my initial coal deposit

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Re: [0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

Post by Aranian »

Would you consider adding a setting like 'enemy aggression' instead of simply fixing/changing this? I kinda like the idea of the aliens trying to take back what was theirs.

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Re: [0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

Post by Oxyd »

Not a bug. Set up defences if you don't want aliens in your base.

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Re: [0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

Post by nonstickfrypan »

Not a bug? If that's so then that's horrible intended behaviour. How do you set up defenses when the things can spawn anywhere they like including inside your base?

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Re: [0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

Post by Oxyd »

nonstickfrypan wrote:Not a bug? If that's so then that's horrible intended behaviour. How do you set up defenses when the things can spawn anywhere they like including inside your base?
You place some turrets. Also they don't spawn, they migrate. If you don't allow them to get inside your base, they won't get in. If you do allow them to get in, too bad.

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Re: [0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

Post by nonstickfrypan »

Oxyd wrote:
nonstickfrypan wrote:Not a bug? If that's so then that's horrible intended behaviour. How do you set up defenses when the things can spawn anywhere they like including inside your base?
You place some turrets. Also they don't spawn, they migrate. If you don't allow them to get inside your base, they won't get in. If you do allow them to get in, too bad.
So you set up 1000 turrets around the outside of your base/outpost/whatever and somehow one slips through the defenses (obviously you have to kill it otherwise it'll just keep destroying stuff) and suddenly they can migrate inside an already built "zone"?

Edit: If that's the case then where do you set up these additional turrets? Next to every factory/inserter/power pole?

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Re: [0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

Post by Oxyd »

I set up turrets around my outposts and have turret clusters on places on the perimeter of my main base where attacks have happened or I suspect they might happen.

In your case, just placing a few turrets around those miners should work just fine – I'd probably place around four turrets, one in each corner. If you had those turrets in place, they would attack the biters before they could set up a new base.

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Re: [0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

Post by Loewchen »

nonstickfrypan wrote:
Oxyd wrote:
nonstickfrypan wrote:Not a bug? If that's so then that's horrible intended behaviour. How do you set up defenses when the things can spawn anywhere they like including inside your base?
You place some turrets. Also they don't spawn, they migrate. If you don't allow them to get inside your base, they won't get in. If you do allow them to get in, too bad.
So you set up 1000 turrets around the outside of your base/outpost/whatever and somehow one slips through the defenses (obviously you have to kill it otherwise it'll just keep destroying stuff) and suddenly they can migrate inside an already built "zone"?

Edit: If that's the case then where do you set up these additional turrets? Next to every factory/inserter/power pole?
Build a perimeter with overlapping turret range around the base or the part that faces enemies, if there are too many enemies, reduce the settings.

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Re: [0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

Post by nonstickfrypan »

I guess what I'm asking is that, apart from turrets, can you stop the enemies from "migrating" like in 0.12.x by building something?

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Re: [0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

Post by 5thHorseman »

Do they actually migrate, or does the game spawn a new base somewhere near another base? I mean, was new base spawning changed to maybe only occur at the location of a current biter?

If so, that's awesome. Especially if some biters are actually "base makers" that actually wander around looking for a suitable base (or at least randomly walk to a new place to set up a base).

If not, can a new base spawn "near" an old base, but across your defensive lines? That doesn't sound all that kosher but it will make collecting alien artifacts easier :)
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Re: [0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

Post by Oxyd »

5thHorseman wrote:Do they actually migrate, or does the game spawn a new base somewhere near another base? I mean, was new base spawning changed to maybe only occur at the location of a current biter?

If so, that's awesome. Especially if some biters are actually "base makers" that actually wander around looking for a suitable base (or at least randomly walk to a new place to set up a base).

If not, can a new base spawn "near" an old base, but across your defensive lines? That doesn't sound all that kosher but it will make collecting alien artifacts easier :)
They have to migrate – nothing's changed about this aspect since prevoius versions. Only which chunks they're allowed to migrate to.

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Re: [0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

Post by ixnorp »

Oxyd wrote:
5thHorseman wrote:Do they actually migrate, or does the game spawn a new base somewhere near another base? I mean, was new base spawning changed to maybe only occur at the location of a current biter?

If so, that's awesome. Especially if some biters are actually "base makers" that actually wander around looking for a suitable base (or at least randomly walk to a new place to set up a base).

If not, can a new base spawn "near" an old base, but across your defensive lines? That doesn't sound all that kosher but it will make collecting alien artifacts easier :)
They have to migrate – nothing's changed about this aspect since prevoius versions. Only which chunks they're allowed to migrate to.
I never did the "Victory Post" thing myself as it seemed a bit too cheaty for my taste, but I've heard it mentioned a fair amount by YouTubers and such. Examining the debug output of show_enemy_expansion_chunks and the new show_enemy_expansion_chunks_values shows minor objects seem to only reduce the chance for a chunk to be an expansion candidate by a small amount where as large, enclosed areas prevent it entirely. Rather than the former behavior of simply disallowing any new bases from spawning in a particular area. Which leads to the result of chunks on the perimeter of bases being candidates for expansion. Interesting.

This seems like it may lead to some very dense biter bases in the wild over time as chunks right on top of other bases are still allowed to be considered expansion candidate chunks.

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Re: [0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

Post by Oxyd »

ixnorp wrote:large, enclosed areas prevent it entirely.
That is not true, actually. There is still the mechanic that an expansion candidate chunk has to be within 7 chunks of any already existing base. This is so that the migration distances are kept reasonable and biters don't just randomly migrate across the entire map. So what you're seeing is that the middle of your factory isn't within 7 chunks of any other biter base.

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Re: [0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

Post by mooklepticon »

nonstickfrypan wrote:I guess what I'm asking is that, apart from turrets, can you stop the enemies from "migrating" like in 0.12.x by building something?
Lots of walls.

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Re: [0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

Post by 5thHorseman »

Oxyd wrote:
5thHorseman wrote:Do they actually migrate, or does the game spawn a new base somewhere near another base?
They have to migrate – nothing's changed about this aspect since prevoius versions. Only which chunks they're allowed to migrate to.
Oxyd wrote:There is still the mechanic that an expansion candidate chunk has to be within 7 chunks of any already existing base. This is so that the migration distances are kept reasonable and biters don't just randomly migrate across the entire map. So what you're seeing is that the middle of your factory isn't within 7 chunks of any other biter base.
I think I'm misunderstanding migrating. For you, does "migrating" and "spawn a new base somewhere near another base" mean exactly the same thing?

I don't actually know how it used to work. I'm fairly new (I don't even have triple digit hours into the game yet!) and currently my only interaction with biters is that they attack my stuff and I attack their stuff.
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Re: [0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

Post by Loewchen »

5thHorseman wrote: I think I'm misunderstanding migrating. For you, does "migrating" and "spawn a new base somewhere near another base" mean exactly the same thing?

I don't actually know how it used to work. I'm fairly new (I don't even have triple digit hours into the game yet!) and currently my only interaction with biters is that they attack my stuff and I attack their stuff.
It means, that enemy bases don't just pop into existence. A biter has to "plant" the new enemy base, if there are turrets it will fight and (hopefully) die instead and no base will be created.

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Re: [0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

Post by 5thHorseman »

Loewchen wrote:It means, that enemy bases don't just pop into existence. A biter has to "plant" the new enemy base, if there are turrets it will fight and (hopefully) die instead and no base will be created.
Okay cool so a factory surrounded by turrets and/or walls is totally safe from a spontaneous biter base appearing right next to your oil pumps. Thank you. And that's a cool mechanic and exactly what I wanted. I won't say I never used victory poles, but I will say I never liked it :)
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Re: [0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

Post by m44v »

5thHorseman wrote: I think I'm misunderstanding migrating. For you, does "migrating" and "spawn a new base somewhere near another base" mean exactly the same thing?

I don't actually know how it used to work. I'm fairly new (I don't even have triple digit hours into the game yet!) and currently my only interaction with biters is that they attack my stuff and I attack their stuff.
migrating means that a group of biters will go to a place suitable for expansion, and wait there, if they are left alone the spawners spawn. Once in a while I check the map for any red dots in places where they shouldn't be and wipe them out before they put down roots so to speak.

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Re: [0.13.0] Spawners spawn far too close

Post by Rseding91 »

You can always just enable peaceful mode or disable biters completely if you don't want to fight them.
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