[15.11] Mapzoom Bug

[Sander_Bouwhuis]

Can't this be modded?

[ray4ever]

I also find the "new" map behavior unintuitive. You can zoom in quite near in "map view" (i normally never zoom in that far in map mode) and than it "suddenly" switches to "normal view" with a limited view distance.
Even worse ist that sometimes it remembers that you used the map zoomed in (just before it switches to "normal view"). So when pressing "M" again you just see some "blobs" that don't look nice.

It would be realy nice to have at least some options for this as the behavior pre 15.10 was fine for my taste.

[Blackraz0r]

Can't this be modded?

Nope, devs decided to make it not modable.

[Sander_Bouwhuis]

Aaaaaaaaaaah SHOOT!!! WHY NOT?!?

[Blackraz0r]

Aaaaaaaaaaah SHOOT!!! WHY NOT?!?

Oh it would be so awesome to know right? But devs decided to dont let us know.

[Klonan]

After playing with it we decided that the switch was too far out
When players would try to inspect the actual map, to see map tags, labels, to read ore patches etc. it would switch to zoom to world before being able to see the map information.

This information, such as turret range, electric network visualization, is more important at this specific zoom than the zoom to world, so we moved the switch point

We are still listening to feedback and gathering opinion on the perfect switch point, but we feel this is a move in the right direction,
That isn't to say it won't be moved out somewhat in the future, but for now we aren't going to revert to the old zoom level

There were also some graphical and rendering issues with the old zoom level

[Mooncat]

Can't this be modded?

Nope, devs decided to make it not modable.

He just said currently there is no API to mod this feature. It was not a statement of decision.

After playing with it we decided that the switch was too far out
When players would try to inspect the actual map, to see map tags, labels, to read ore patches etc. it would switch to zoom to world before being able to see the map information.

This information, such as turret range, electric network visualization, is more important at this specific zoom than the zoom to world, so we moved the switch point

We are still listening to feedback and gathering opinion on the perfect switch point, but we feel this is a move in the right direction,
That isn't to say it won't be moved out somewhat in the future, but for now we aren't going to revert to the old zoom level

There were also some graphical and rendering issues with the old zoom level

How about... when you are in the range of zoom to world, hold SHIFT = map, release = world?

[justarandomgeek]

After playing with it we decided that the switch was too far out
When players would try to inspect the actual map, to see map tags, labels, to read ore patches etc. it would switch to zoom to world before being able to see the map information.

This information, such as turret range, electric network visualization, is more important at this specific zoom than the zoom to world, so we moved the switch point

We are still listening to feedback and gathering opinion on the perfect switch point, but we feel this is a move in the right direction,
That isn't to say it won't be moved out somewhat in the future, but for now we aren't going to revert to the old zoom level

There were also some graphical and rendering issues with the old zoom level

While I agree it wasn't perfect before, it seems nonsensical to me that the map view ends up showing a smaller total area, given that the whole appeal of map view is to work in larger blueprints essentially.

How about... when you are in the range of zoom to world, hold SHIFT = map, release = world?

That will make it difficult to shift-click things Perhaps a dedicated key/ui-widget to inhibit zoom-to-world is in order (for examining blocky-map close up)?

[Blackraz0r]

How about... when you are in the range of zoom to world, hold SHIFT = map, release = world?

That will make it difficult to shift-click things Perhaps a dedicated key/ui-widget to inhibit zoom-to-world is in order (for examining blocky-map close up)?

this is already possible. you can set different hotkleys for map zoom and alternate map zoom.

when you set the alternate map zoom to shift+scroll wheel, you wont enter the different map modes by simply scrolling anymore, you would have to hold shift then.

[Mooncat]

Ooops, forgot we can build things in zoom-to-world.

How about... when you are in the range of zoom to world, hold SHIFT = map, release = world?

That will make it difficult to shift-click things Perhaps a dedicated key/ui-widget to inhibit zoom-to-world is in order (for examining blocky-map close up)?

this is already possible. you can set different hotkleys for map zoom and alternate map zoom.

when you set the alternate map zoom to shift+scroll wheel, you wont enter the different map modes by simply scrolling anymore, you would have to hold shift then.

Oh wow, good to know we have alternate map zoom! How come its default control is the same as the original map zoom.
It is working, but not the way I was thinking - a simple toggle.
Shift doesn't work, how about other keys like Ctrl or Space.

[jojo_steed]

After playing with it we decided that the switch was too far out
When players would try to inspect the actual map, to see map tags, labels, to read ore patches etc. it would switch to zoom to world before being able to see the map information.

This information, such as turret range, electric network visualization, is more important at this specific zoom than the zoom to world, so we moved the switch point

We are still listening to feedback and gathering opinion on the perfect switch point, but we feel this is a move in the right direction,
That isn't to say it won't be moved out somewhat in the future, but for now we aren't going to revert to the old zoom level

There were also some graphical and rendering issues with the old zoom level

My personal opinion is that the original levels of zoom were great but agree that there was room for improvement. The primary utility in the zoom to world view for me almost instantly became in gaining a better overview of my factories while running, and also in planning out large scale structures in the later stages of the game. It opened up much more opportunities for creativity for me, making it easier to design and plan things out with ghosts, and then watching as i release my cloud of diligent little personal construction bots and they set to work putting my vision together - which is where a lot of the joy of playing lies for me.

The larger than player view has been a phenomenal quality of life improvement for me. After putting in close to 130hours in new 0.15.x factories that QoL improvement has become integral to how i play. With the current change, this QoL improvement has effectively been removed and the closer view feels very claustrophobic to me, so much so that it becomes an unpleasant experience for me to play. The effect of having the regular map view able to zoom in as close as the regular play max zoom also feels unpleasant to me - zoomed in that close the regular map view does not look nice (and it seems more often than not that it keeps defaulting to that level of zoom when i open it).

I totally agree that there were issues with the old switch point being just above where you would often want to be for reading player tags and ore quantities etc. and i did find that irritating, and i had noticed a few graphical issues with the more zoomed out world view. For me, those negatives were vastly outweighed by the previously mentioned QoL improvement, however I can understand that you would want to resolve those issues but I am not convinced that this is the best way to do it.

I think that what others have suggested in having separate hotkeys for each type of map view would be great - and I'd like to offer an expansion on that idea:

• Map key to open the regular map (preferably always open the map with a minimum of one zoom level further out than either the current the player zoom or the player max zoom)
• Separate map key to open the world view, at whatever the current player zoom level is.
• Maximum zoom out on world view as it was before the changes.
• TWO different switch over points for the map view/world view when scrolling. eg: when in map view, scrolling in will switch to world view when the player max zoom level is reached. When in world view, scrolling out will switch to map view one or two levels of zoom ABOVE player max zoom.
• Have the default zoom levels, and the switch over points customisable by the player in the game settings, with warnings about possible graphical and UPS issues on higher levels of zoom out on the world view.
• Optionally: introduce new techs to enable/improve world view functionality

The reason for preferring the map view to open zoomed out further than player view is that I honestly cannot think of a situation where I would want to switch to regular map view at the same or closer level of zoom as my current player zoom. My reasons for looking at map view are either to get an overview of the surrounding area, or because i want to quickly look at a distant area so having to zoom out after switching is grating, especially with the recently introduced less aggressive zoom.

Opening the world view at the current player zoom level makes sense to me as I would expect that this is the zoom level the player will be most comfortable with for viewing world view - otherwise it probably wouldn't be the zoom level they were using!

Having the two different switch points would allow players to switch to map view and inspect all the new information that has been added to map view at a much closer level than had previously been possible - I hope that that would solve the primary issue - but still allow the greater creative freedom and factory overview potential that being able to zoom out further on world view allowed while retaining the convenience of switching between the two with the scroll wheel.

Having it all customisable so that players can set their own preferences is something i have seen people from both sides of the debate request - and would allow those that have computers able to handle higher zoom out on world view without UPS drops, aren't bothered by the graphical issues, and feel they would use it etc. would be able to.

I would welcome the addition of various techs to research to enable/improve different aspects of the world view, as others have mentioned elsewhere as it would give us more non-biter focused things to research and add to the sense of progression through to later stages of the game. Additionally, it would mean that those who seem to be against the world view or thought it was overpowered could happily skip it entirely or leave it at a level they feel is reasonable.

[sploof]

This change has been irritating me a lot in the last few weeks.

I agree that the two views should be separated into two separate hotkeys. Each view complements one another, but they also each have a completely different functionalities. These functionalities do not give the player equal amounts of power - the 'satellite' map view can basically extend the operational range of bots from the player avatar indefinitely, giving a player almost infinite levels of remote control over production within the bot network. I really like this style of play, I think the game is only made stronger if there are more ways to play, and would love to have it integrated further into the game. At the moment it is possible, but very awkward and inconvenient. You can't zoom out very far in the satellite view, and the map view zoomed in at the level when the switch occurs is, well, basically a bunch of useless pixel blobs.

The functionality difference and power disparity between the two map views suggest that optimally they should be separated into two different views, research lines, and even buildings. Radar domes work fine as is as a way of interacting with the regular map view, but something along the lines of a satellite uplink center, with levels of research that correspond to a higher maximum zoom and more ease of remote operations seems like it would mesh really well with the existing power curve in the game. It could even be integrated into the existing rocket system - launch more satellites for more remote map coverage and zoom levels or something.

But I mean, this is just an implementation problem with a potentially very rewarding new feature in a patch that has exceeded my expectations in every other way. You guys have made the best video game, I hope you know that.

[Jürgen Erhard]

How about an addition toggle in the "toggle bar" (heck, I hate not having/knowing proper terminology) where you switch electric grid and logistics network?

Call it… "satellite view". One, people expect (as soon as they learn that those are toggles and what they do) stuff there, and second, and very importantly, pretty much everyone knows "satellite view" from Google Maps. And then you can and *SHOULD* do away with any switchover nonsense completely.