pY Raw Ores Discussion

[pyanodon]

All i can say now:
MOAR SALT TO SALTY GOD!!!! MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! AND MOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRR ROCKS WITH SALT!!!!

I walked in creative mode about 10 minutes and 1 salt rock contains over 3 000 000 salt but its only 1 mine and i can put there only 1 speed module what means salt will mine some slowly

SLOW????

[pyanodon]

Just updated, you seem to have forgotten the migration files. Now I can't unlock acetylene.

There´s no migration file in that version. Since it was very bugged at launch.

[aklesey1]

All i can say now:
MOAR SALT TO SALTY GOD!!!! MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! AND MOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRR ROCKS WITH SALT!!!!

I walked in creative mode about 10 minutes and 1 salt rock contains over 3 000 000 salt but its only 1 mine and i can put there only 1 speed module what means salt will mine some slowly

SLOW????

Just remember about all recipes where solt and sodium hydroxide is needed
I intend not to convert salt to sodium hydroxide, bcuz it'll be very expensive to make salt water
And of course i think now niobium plates consuption will be increased bcuz more meeded

[pyanodon]

this mod is now supported by RSO...if you´re having trouble with salt consuption, you can always set the amount of salt rock higher... Even i playing here having no issues with salt.

[immortal_sniper1]

All i can say now:
MOAR SALT TO SALTY GOD!!!! MOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!! AND MOOOOOOOOAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRR ROCKS WITH SALT!!!!

I walked in creative mode about 10 minutes and 1 salt rock contains over 3 000 000 salt but its only 1 mine and i can put there only 1 speed module what means salt will mine some slowly

SLOW????

Just remember about all recipes where solt and sodium hydroxide is needed
I intend not to convert salt to sodium hydroxide, bcuz it'll be very expensive to make salt water
And of course i think now niobium plates consuption will be increased bcuz more meeded

use ore mover if needed to move them closer

[nagapito]

You´re right! That was a typo that created that impossible loop. Oh boy...dunno how long it will be until next release.

Because you need Nexela to do the changes on the code or because you actually have other plans?

Coz, you have a couple of people around that will happily track the problem and submit a change request on github?

[pyanodon]

Because you need Nexela to do the changes on the code or because you actually have other plans?

Coz, you have a couple of people around that will happily track the problem and submit a change request on github?

I do the changes, but i know nothing about code a new release, migration and such. Nexela is my right hand on it and im very glad for it.

[NexZone30]

Py,

Hey again, I've discovered something that may be of interest to you as I'm rather perplexed by it. After researching Iron 2, you're greeted with the option of either smelting grade one iron or simply smelting processed iron. From my calculations (and practical application), you actually gain more from smelting the processed iron at a 5 Ore : 6 Plate ratio versus the grade one iron at a 25 Ore : 24 Plate Ratio (better than the Iron 1 way). Ultimately, since the grade one iron requires more machines and energy, shouldn't it produce more iron?

Overall, I do understand that you'll need the grade one iron for further progression into high grade iron. But from researching Iron 2, it just seems better to just use one machine and get the extra iron.

[pyanodon]

Py,

Hey again, I've discovered something that may be of interest to you as I'm rather perplexed by it. After researching Iron 2, you're greeted with the option of either smelting grade one iron or simply smelting processed iron. From my calculations (and practical application), you actually gain more from smelting the processed iron at a 5 Ore : 6 Plate ratio versus the grade one iron at a 25 Ore : 24 Plate Ratio (better than the Iron 1 way). Ultimately, since the grade one iron requires more machines and energy, shouldn't it produce more iron?

Overall, I do understand that you'll need the grade one iron for further progression into high grade iron. But from researching Iron 2, it just seems better to just use one machine and get the extra iron.

makes sense...but direct smelt of processed iron ore takes a lot of time, while grade 1 iron takes almost half of that time. You may dont gain in raw production, but when you dimension it a bit, less time = more production and less energy consumption. Also, you would never reach upper levels of iron (and better yields) is you decide to stop in processed iron ore. This mod is for people adapt their needs to the map they are; If you have few titanium, makes more sense invest more in that chain than invest in iron if you have plenty of it near you.

[NexZone30]

Ah, makes more sense now.

[live22morrow]

Py,

Hey again, I've discovered something that may be of interest to you as I'm rather perplexed by it. After researching Iron 2, you're greeted with the option of either smelting grade one iron or simply smelting processed iron. From my calculations (and practical application), you actually gain more from smelting the processed iron at a 5 Ore : 6 Plate ratio versus the grade one iron at a 25 Ore : 24 Plate Ratio (better than the Iron 1 way). Ultimately, since the grade one iron requires more machines and energy, shouldn't it produce more iron?

Overall, I do understand that you'll need the grade one iron for further progression into high grade iron. But from researching Iron 2, it just seems better to just use one machine and get the extra iron.

A lot of the recipes aren't very balanced yet. For example, I calculate that for iron, the high grade step gives a yield of 15 ore : 4 plate. And most of the advanced smelting steps reduce the yield. For example, high grade iron direct smelting is 1 hg : 10 plates, while turning to liquid first gives 1 hg : 7.5 plates. After bugs and deadlocks are fixed there will probably be balance passes to fix the yields on many of the chains.

[NexZone30]

A lot of the recipes aren't very balanced yet. For example, I calculate that for iron, the high grade step gives a yield of 15 ore : 4 plate. And most of the advanced smelting steps reduce the yield. For example, high grade iron direct smelting is 1 hg : 10 plates, while turning to liquid first gives 1 hg : 7.5 plates. After bugs and deadlocks are fixed there will probably be balance passes to fix the yields on many of the chains.

Yeah, aluminum seems a bit borked too at the moment. You go from a 6:1 (ore:plate) ratio, to a 5:1 ratio (aluminum 1), to a 6.25:1 ratio (aluminum 2) for basically the same speed and more resources. I don't mind the issues though, it's part of playing such an early release. Hope I'm helping when I can find these things. :3

[pyanodon]

Now a lot of people will think the recipes are unbalanced, but its all part if the plan. In the end, it isnt a matter of how many ores enter and how many plates came out, theres more variables there. Put all machines working at the same time with each recipe for the same plate and you will see if theres some less production for real. If so, theres a real inbalance, but mostly you will see each step giving more yield.

[nagapito]

Now a lot of people will think the recipes are unbalanced, but its all part if the plan. In the end, it isnt a matter of how many ores enter and how many plates came out, theres more variables there. Put all machines working at the same time with each recipe for the same plate and you will see if theres some less production for real. If so, theres a real inbalance, but mostly you will see each step giving more yield.

What Pyanodon means is, dont just look at the recipes as stand alone.
Simulate the whole chain on Helmod. There you will be able to compare the different chains in two ways:

- If you configure it on the perspective of producing X amount in Y time, you should compare the infrastructure needed to produce the same amount of results in the same time, the power needed and the material input amount required.

- If you configure it on the infrastructure perspective (X amount of machines), you can compare how much each chain produces with similar infrastructures in the same amount of time

This might be similar (haven't had time to check it yet) with Angels smelting... Casting the melted ore into a sheet and then cutting it into plates seems worse when you only look at the recipe but its stupidly faster to make the sheet and cut it then to directly cast to plates. So you loose a little ore but produce a LOT more in the same amount of time. And later techs with coolant are even less efficient but way more faster. This loss of efficiency is compensated by the gains done in the processing and the speed boost just makes your iron plate production be much faster. So the latest tech in Angels does not look like but it gives a similar ratio of ore to plate at a much much faster rate!

[pyanodon]

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

[splatlevel]

I think there's a bug in the iron chain. It looks like most of the late game raw ore processing chains can follow the pattern of high grade ore -> reduced ore -> sintered ore -> liquid -> plate. Iron has a reduced block but there's no way to craft it. For the iron chain, you can only go straight from high grade to sinter. Since the reduced block for iron exists in the game and has no crafting recipe to produce it, it makes me think it's a bug.

[IpsumEstPan]

Oh venerable pY.

I thank you for being so patient with us, those who are blessed with your many gifts. I ask a question, not as a request, but as a wondering.

Are there plans about changing the graphics for vanilla resources, coal, iron, copper, uranium, wood, stone?

Edit: Since there has been talk about balancing, I would gladly help out in balancing efforts. I don't know how to program in lua, but I'm a mathematician, I can probably help somewhere.

[pyanodon]

I think there's a bug in the iron chain. It looks like most of the late game raw ore processing chains can follow the pattern of high grade ore -> reduced ore -> sintered ore -> liquid -> plate. Iron has a reduced block but there's no way to craft it. For the iron chain, you can only go straight from high grade to sinter. Since the reduced block for iron exists in the game and has no crafting recipe to produce it, it makes me think it's a bug.

Confirmed...fixed thanks

[pyanodon]

Oh venerable pY.

I thank you for being so patient with us, those who are blessed with your many gifts. I ask a question, not as a request, but as a wondering.

Are there plans about changing the graphics for vanilla resources, coal, iron, copper, uranium, wood, stone?

Edit: Since there has been talk about balancing, I would gladly help out in balancing efforts. I don't know how to program in lua, but I'm a mathematician, I can probably help somewhere.

haha no. Sorry.

[NexZone30]

Okay, I installed Helmod and went through the numbers. Yeah, aluminum definitely appears to get worse as you progress from Aluminum 0 to Aluminum 2. No real speed increase, more power (even if you use foundries instead of steel furnaces), more of a foot print, more inputs, and technically less efficient. I used 1000 plates per minute to see if there was an economy of scale, there really isn't.