[MOD 0.12.x] SimpleTeleporters

iUltimateLP · Post by **iUltimateLP** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 2:39 pm

Type: Mod
Name: SimpleTeleporters
Description: This mods adds easy-to-use teleporters!
License: Contact me!
Version: 0.0.5
Release: 2015-10-21
Tested-With-Factorio-Version: 0.12.12
Category: (Item, SimpleExtension, Gameplay)
Tags: Free, New Items, Teleportation
Download-Url: https://github.com/iUltimateLP/Factorio ... _0.0.5.zip
GitHub: https://github.com/iUltimateLP/Factorio ... ree/master

Check out GitHub for a wiki of the mod and the latest dev version (may contain bugs)

License

KNOWN BUGS

Long description

Tier Specifications

Pictures

Version history

Have fun with my mod! If you encounter bugs or wish features, feel free to write here!
Also big thanks to woodydaocas for making this mod much harder

WoodyDaOcas · Post by **WoodyDaOcas** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:36 pm

Thanks, awesome idea!

Here come's the "but":
bit easy to acquire I would say

Artifacts are abundant, how about some energy usage, and I mean tremendous power requirements, internal capacitors, ie. "charge up" time.
Thoughts ?

iUltimateLP · Post by **iUltimateLP** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:41 pm

WoodyDaOcas wrote:Thanks, awesome idea!
Here come's the "but":
bit easy to acquire I would say Artifacts are abundant, how about some energy usage, and I mean tremendous power requirements, internal capacitors, ie. "charge up" time.
Thoughts ?

Yep its the first version without power, but I will add this in the future!

WoodyDaOcas · Post by **WoodyDaOcas** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 3:46 pm

awesome, looking forward to it

Thank you

BigD145 · Post by **BigD145** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:18 pm

As it's a teleporter I'd like to see a distance factor in the power requirements but whatever you do it should run in the tens of megawatts.

iUltimateLP · Post by **iUltimateLP** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:23 pm

BigD145 wrote:As it's a teleporter I'd like to see a distance factor in the power requirements but whatever you do it should run in the tens of megawatts.

Yep, power usage is a big point. I also thought about making the teleporter requiring a own crystal which is a ore what can be mined and is very rare, but then people would need to go to new areas of their already existing map to search for it...

Peter34 · Post by **Peter34** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 5:51 pm

BigD145 wrote:As it's a teleporter I'd like to see a distance factor in the power requirements but whatever you do it should run in the tens of megawatts.

Actually no, I don't think power usage for a teleporter makes any sense. Rather, it should be energy usage. And energy is measured in joules, not in watt.

Other than that, though, I agree very strongly. I like mods that add more variety to the game, but sadly many mods are cheesy, or in some cases ultra-cheesy, in that they vastly improve or increase the capabilities of the player character for very little cost, thereby completely screwing over any game balance that the vanilla game actually has.

One of the principles of good mod design, probably the primary one, is that all good tings must come at a high cost. In this case there are several options:
1. High cost to build.
2. Energy cost to use.
3. Power cost to have (Drain - per Link).
4. Time to use/between uses (comes naturally if the item needs to recharge internal energy stores, and if it then has a limit to how quickly it can recharge, similar to Accumulators).

iUltimateLP · Post by **iUltimateLP** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:22 pm

Peter34 wrote:
BigD145 wrote:As it's a teleporter I'd like to see a distance factor in the power requirements but whatever you do it should run in the tens of megawatts.
Actually no, I don't think power usage for a teleporter makes any sense. Rather, it should be energy usage. And energy is measured in joules, not in watt.

Other than that, though, I agree very strongly. I like mods that add more variety to the game, but sadly many mods are cheesy, or in some cases ultra-cheesy, in that they vastly improve or increase the capabilities of the player character for very little cost, thereby completely screwing over any game balance that the vanilla game actually has.

One of the principles of good mod design, probably the primary one, is that all good tings must come at a high cost. In this case there are several options:
1. High cost to build.
2. Energy cost to use.
3. Power cost to have (Drain - per Link).
4. Time to use/between uses (comes naturally if the item needs to recharge internal energy stores, and if it then has a limit to how quickly it can recharge, similar to Accumulators).

Thanks for feedback. The problem is that Im currently using the teleporter as a decorative class cause the other ones would have an interface or something, and decoratives do not drain power. I managed some workaround with invisible lamps that consume power / energy, but that only works at night :/

orzelek · Post by **orzelek** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:24 pm

I'd recommend looking at accumulator type of entities.

You can give them big buffer to slowly charge and then consume some energy for the teleport when executing the action.

This also opens possibility of teleport upgrades (bigger buffer and/or faster charging) that would allow for higher range or more frequent teleports.

iUltimateLP · Post by **iUltimateLP** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:26 pm

orzelek wrote:I'd recommend looking at accumulator type of entities.

You can give them big buffer to slowly charge and then consume some energy for the teleport when executing the action.

This also opens possibility of teleport upgrades (bigger buffer and/or faster charging) that would allow for higher range or more frequent teleports.

Will do that, thanks for feedback!

iUltimateLP · Post by **iUltimateLP** » Wed Jul 22, 2015 6:49 pm

orzelek wrote:I'd recommend looking at accumulator type of entities.

You can give them big buffer to slowly charge and then consume some energy for the teleport when executing the action.

This also opens possibility of teleport upgrades (bigger buffer and/or faster charging) that would allow for higher range or more frequent teleports.

But then the find_entities_filtered does somehow not find the entity if its an accumulator class. When it was a decorative class, the script found it... Strange
TL;DR works now

But can I change the render layer to decorative back? Cause the player is behind the teleporter when he is stepping on that teleporter, but he should be always in the foreground..

iUltimateLP · Post by **iUltimateLP** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:04 am

Peter34 wrote:
BigD145 wrote:As it's a teleporter I'd like to see a distance factor in the power requirements but whatever you do it should run in the tens of megawatts.
Actually no, I don't think power usage for a teleporter makes any sense. Rather, it should be energy usage. And energy is measured in joules, not in watt.

Other than that, though, I agree very strongly. I like mods that add more variety to the game, but sadly many mods are cheesy, or in some cases ultra-cheesy, in that they vastly improve or increase the capabilities of the player character for very little cost, thereby completely screwing over any game balance that the vanilla game actually has.

One of the principles of good mod design, probably the primary one, is that all good tings must come at a high cost. In this case there are several options:
1. High cost to build.
2. Energy cost to use.
3. Power cost to have (Drain - per Link).
4. Time to use/between uses (comes naturally if the item needs to recharge internal energy stores, and if it then has a limit to how quickly it can recharge, similar to Accumulators).

WoodyDaOcas wrote:Thanks, awesome idea!
Here come's the "but":
bit easy to acquire I would say Artifacts are abundant, how about some energy usage, and I mean tremendous power requirements, internal capacitors, ie. "charge up" time.
Thoughts ?

Okey, I did some power consuming now, what value you would think is good for cost? My current, very weak setting is that the Teleporter has a energy buffer from 5MJ and one teleport costs 2.5MJ at the start teleporter. What energy values you think a good?

WoodyDaOcas · Post by **WoodyDaOcas** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 9:34 am

Wow, that was fast

thanks for that, also for feedback from others..
As far as the energy values.. ( and yes, for it to use wattage as a value, it would have to be kept open(~wormhole?: ), to consume an energy "at this rate" : ) I would like to ask others for help..
But in the meantime: could you please say, what are the values for charging, too ? Also, about settings for priority, if it could be set to primary network, secondary and so on (at least as I know it from, say.. Factorio)
long story short, I don't want teleporter to charge if there's not enough power to run a base for instance

Thanks for the enthusiasm

iUltimateLP · Post by **iUltimateLP** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:36 am

WoodyDaOcas wrote:Wow, that was fast thanks for that, also for feedback from others..
As far as the energy values.. ( and yes, for it to use wattage as a value, it would have to be kept open(~wormhole?: ), to consume an energy "at this rate" : ) I would like to ask others for help..
But in the meantime: could you please say, what are the values for charging, too ? Also, about settings for priority, if it could be set to primary network, secondary and so on (at least as I know it from, say.. Factorio)
long story short, I don't want teleporter to charge if there's not enough power to run a base for instance
Thanks for the enthusiasm

These are the current power settings:

Code: Select all

    energy_source =
    {
      type = "electric",
      buffer_capacity = "5MJ",
      usage_priority = "terciary",
      input_flow_limit = "300kW",
      output_flow_limit = "0W"
    },

So I think what you mean is the usage_priority which is set to terciary, and I think that means the 3rd one. About the energy consumption, its currently really rudimentary. So what it does is, it loads up 5MJ inside his own buffer, and if the teleporter is linked and I have over 2.5MJ of power inside the buffer, than I can teleport. As I said, really cheap. About keeping open, I have nothing at the moment. So could you please explain a bit what you mean? You mean it keeps it open so it consumes always a bit power and especially high power when its teleporting?

WoodyDaOcas · Post by **WoodyDaOcas** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:42 am

omg, I am sorry.. First, I said "as I know from Factorio", lol, I meant "DyTech".. hhh and second of all, I was merely referring to someone's post on the first page, when he was talking about ..let's not use Watts, let's use Joules.. and I am like yes, for one time teleport (what you have done.. ) it's obvious, yes, please let's do that (and you did) but to be able to "use the watts as a values" it would have to be an entity, that would consume energy continuously, not that I would like it to work like that, sorry

) Unnecessary confusion, sorry for that..
I like it how it is now, thanks, also that it is set for tertiary circuit. I would just wait for more ideas for balancing from others.
Peace

iUltimateLP · Post by **iUltimateLP** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 10:45 am

WoodyDaOcas wrote:omg, I am sorry.. First, I said "as I know from Factorio", lol, I meant "DyTech".. hhh and second of all, I was merely referring to someone's post on the first page, when he was talking about ..let's not use Watts, let's use Joules.. and I am like yes, for one time teleport (what you have done.. ) it's obvious, yes, please let's do that (and you did) but to be able to "use the watts as a values" it would have to be an entity, that would consume energy continuously, not that I would like it to work like that, sorry ) Unnecessary confusion, sorry for that..
I like it how it is now, thanks. I would just wait for more ideas for balancing the values
Peace

Haha ok

I just take a look on a generic power production in my singleplayer level and how much a teleport could cost.. And I maybe do that with that special ore to make the crafting more challenging..

WoodyDaOcas · Post by **WoodyDaOcas** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:29 am

well, I guess it's "decided"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjCRUvX2D0E

Currently after a long time /played I got a capacitor with volume 3.something GJ, and according to a video.. it would be a nice touch to make it 1.21GJ as.. I don't know what, really, max capacity ? (edit: that's nonsense

that's too low

) But I guess you also need to come up with some formula for energy usage according to distance. I have couple screens wide base, going from one end to another should be cheap~ish, to make me wanna use it, if I am in need, but if there's no rush, so that I would rather go on foot.. I have modular armor with like 8 speed leg modules w/e it's called now.
Looking on my battery of 600 solar panels, producing 200kW each, that's some 120MW, which would charge this in 10 seconds, I suppose it would be appropriate to make it like .. 30 ? Would be like too cheap, to go from one end to another, then immediately back..
So Iam thinking: hard cooldown of 10 seconds, to literally let the pad cool down a bit. Cap the charging speed, so that even if you have enough power in the grid, it's not charged instantly, it should take at least I dunno.. 10-20 seconds ? (I am thinking some graphic, like 4 stages to illustrate the charge level : ) (none-empty, charging, ready to use.. something in between, maybe 5 total) and to try to wrap this up.. going from one end to the other (of the base) should be easy, so I dunno, max zoom out, 3 screens ~1GJ, going from the base to some further base should be like 10 at least.. I would be totally fine to not be able to afford it at the moment, (ie. my nooby play of dytech, max power during the day ~400MW), to let it charge like.. minutes ?
Makes any sense ? Thoughts ? Ty

edit: ore ? Nope, sorry..should be like hundreds(if not thousand?) of alien artifacts to construct one pad. We're not that far in the future with Factorio world, making space rockets.. this is still almost the magic level, so to pump this stuff with artifacts should be appropriate, if not needed.

iUltimateLP · Post by **iUltimateLP** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 11:50 am

WoodyDaOcas wrote:well, I guess it's "decided"
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mjCRUvX2D0E

Currently after a long time /played I got a capacitor with volume 3.something GJ, and according to a video.. it would be a nice touch to make it 1.21GJ as.. I don't know what, really, max capacity ? (edit: that's nonsense that's too low ) But I guess you also need to come up with some formula for energy usage according to distance. I have couple screens wide base, going from one end to another should be cheap~ish, to make me wanna use it, if I am in need, but if there's no rush, so that I would rather go on foot.. I have modular armor with like 8 speed leg modules w/e it's called now.
Looking on my battery of 600 solar panels, producing 200kW each, that's some 120MW, which would charge this in 10 seconds, I suppose it would be appropriate to make it like .. 30 ? Would be like too cheap, to go from one end to another, then immediately back..
So Iam thinking: hard cooldown of 10 seconds, to literally let the pad cool down a bit. Cap the charging speed, so that even if you have enough power in the grid, it's not charged instantly, it should take at least I dunno.. 10-20 seconds ? (I am thinking some graphic, like 4 stages to illustrate the charge level : ) (none-empty, charging, ready to use.. something in between, maybe 5 total) and to try to wrap this up.. going from one end to the other (of the base) should be easy, so I dunno, max zoom out, 3 screens ~1GJ, going from the base to some further base should be like 10 at least.. I would be totally fine to not be able to afford it at the moment, (ie. my nooby play of dytech, max power during the day ~400MW), to let it charge like.. minutes ?
Makes any sense ? Thoughts ? Ty

edit: ore ? Nope, sorry..should be like hundreds(if not thousand?) of alien artifacts to construct one pad. We're not that far in the future with Factorio world, making space rockets.. this is still almost the magic level, so to pump this stuff with artifacts should be appropriate, if not needed.

Haha

So I summarize up what youre saing here, please correct me if Im wrong
- more alien artifacts (maybe 350 per teleporter?)
- charging of the teleporter takes up 30 seconds
- 10 seconds cooldown
- the charging speed / input flow is already capped to 300kW - i dunno how much this is in seconds
- So you mean the longer the distance between the teleporters is, the more energy one teleport will cost? I dont know.. Need to measure some coordinates to check what the distance is, maybe I add a debug distance measurement tool

The 5MW and 2.5MW are only values because I wanted to test the mechanism in a test world without many power, but the values can be pushed up whenever I want

Peter34 · Post by **Peter34** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:05 pm

iUltimateLP wrote:Okey, I did some power consuming now, what value you would think is good for cost? My current, very weak setting is that the Teleporter has a energy buffer from 5MJ and one teleport costs 2.5MJ at the start teleporter. What energy values you think a good?

I think they should be much higher.

1 fully running Steam Engine outputs a bit over 500 kwatt, which is 500 kJ/s, so one such Steam Engine would need to run for 5 seconds to power a single teleport, and for 10 seconds to fill up the Teleporter's in-built battery. Like most players, I tend to plonk down Steam Engines 10 at time (in "lines" along with 13-14 Boilers), so 2.5/5 MJ really isn't much.

I suggest each teleport should cost 15 MJ, to start with, and the device be able to store 60 MJ. Let's try that out, see how it works.

Although ideally, you should base it on range, so that below a certain floor value teleports cost as little as 10 MJ but very long ones can cost as many as 60 MJ (one full charge). If you don't implement that, yet or ever, then I think my 15 MJ figure is a good general-purpose cost to have.

Peter34 · Post by **Peter34** » Thu Jul 23, 2015 12:11 pm

I think my Solar Panels only produce 60 kW each, not 200 kW.

The recharge rate of 300 kJ/s should obviously be increased proportionally with my suggested increase in flat-rate teleport cost. I think I suggested a factor of 6 increase in cost, from 2.5 MJ to 15 MJ, thus 1800 kJ/s which might as well round to 2 kJ/s.

Finally, I think each Teleporter Entry/Exit point should have a Power Drain. Maybe 50 kW each. That way, one Steam Engine can power 10 of them, so that the player is discouraged from building overly many of them.

As for graphics, if you don't already have them, forum poster Yoki (or however his name is spelled) is apparently quite willing to make fancy graphics for modders, so maybe you can ask him...

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