Development and Discussion

Infinite Ores, Refining, Ore Processing ...

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Light
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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Light »

Breith wrote:The only way you can have enough iron/copper/tin/thelastone plates is to smelt the corresponding crushed mineral in addition to the ore melting.
Using Angel's Smelting can improve the plate output from ore, but it won't prevent the usage of the default crushed mineral completely (and yes, it will take a lot of space / power to do that, you need to have an automatic way to produce robots (MK2 is better) and solar panel (MK2 is better) before you start the advanced smelting area).


By the way, anyone found a good solution for Crushed Stone? After 48h played, I have something like 15 silos full of it. I started to destroy my full silo to get rid of it. It's really depressing. Useless biasproduct is fine, but the quantity of crushed stone we get is definitevelly waaaayyyy to big.
As someone who usually plays maps with very large bodies of water, I usually dump crushed stone into creating stone ore and then create massive chests of landfill. The other method is creating massive chests of concrete.
I've found that the production of both usually keeps the problem at bay, if not a deficit at times when thousands are suddenly required in a new area.
jbtw wrote:The alternate alien science requires 21 sulfur per alien science pack (required by three explosive rockets). As a result, once I started churning out those science packs I went through my backlog of sulfur very quickly and have ever since been suffering a chronic sulfur shortage. This requirement is not too bad in vanilla where all oil can be converted to sulfur, but with Angel's Petrochem it's much more difficult.

I only see three sources of sulfur:
  • Oil separation and natural gas separations, which provide 1 sulfur per 100 raw input (via yellow waste water). (You can also get a small amount through a many-step process which ultimately yields a little hydrogen sulfide)
  • Slag / stone processing, which provides slightly more sulfur than it consumes in sulfuric acid (again, via the yellow waste water).
  • Putting coal through Fischer Tropsch and converting hydrogen sulfide to sulfur, which provides 1 sulfur per 15 coal.
So far I've been relying on the first two, and they are not working out well. I am having to store a vast plastic backlog (>100k right now) in order to process enough oil to get even a trickle of sulfur (about 1 sulfur per second compared to about 10 plastic per second). I could set up the third, which looks better but only slightly so. I'd like to get to about 20 sulfur per second, which means 300 coal per second, and burning off the vast quantities of synthesis gas this would also produce.

Did I miss something? Is there an easier way to generate sulfur? Did you consider this potential issue in your recipe design? How would you feel about adding an ore sorting recipe to generate raw sulfur directly? I think that's reasonable from a realism and gameplay balance perspective, since sulfur is mined in the real world.
Recycling of yellow water into purified water produces a hell of a lot of sulfur rather quickly, especially given yellow water is usually a byproduct in many recipes.
With a large ore sorting line making crystal chunks via hydro refining, I've found there's no shortage of yellow water to be used. Often leading to a surplus in my case, with pressure tanks full of product to use. (Thanks so much for pressure tanks)

Perhaps expanding your hydro refining line could improve your sulfur yield better?
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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Light »

Just updated to the latest PetroChem and noticed my entire ore line broke due to new recipes.

After 30 minutes of figuring out how to make the new gas lines, I remembered that Fluorite Ore had no way to be synthesized... until I noticed the Hydro Plant converts Fluoric Waste Water into the ore.
Problem is, the recipe for the hydro plant to convert this waste water is unavailable to those who already researched it, so another migration is needed to get things moving forward.

I love you Angel, for making my finished setups into a redesign nightmare that always keeps me on my toes. :lol:

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by jbtw »

Arch666Angel wrote:That's really more of a balancing problem between the two mods, the main sources for sulfur are the waste water and the hydrogen sulfide, the hydrogen sulfide one is a bit weak at the moment so I can increase that a bit.
Another poorly-thought-out idea: If productivity modules could be used in the hydrogen sulfide -> sulfur step, that would go a long way towards resolving this (although it's not clear how people would realize that this was possible; I don't know how to tell where it is possible to use productivity modules and where it is not).
Else I was thinking about an earlier version of the coal cracking to get some sulfur from coal. Else I would suggest to drop a line in the alternate science pack, maybe using some of the other chemicals in the mod.

Edit: I'm also re-adding the chain to make alien artefacts to the bio-processing at the moment.
Good to know. I'll keep an eye on the bio-processing mod.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by solntcev »

jbtw wrote: I only see three sources of sulfur:
...
You are missing Nickel processing and advanced Lead processing. They both produce Sulfur Oxyde. It can be restored to Sulfur with Hydrogen.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by mexmer »

solntcev wrote:
jbtw wrote: I only see three sources of sulfur:
...
You are missing Nickel processing and advanced Lead processing. They both produce Sulfur Oxyde. It can be restored to Sulfur with Hydrogen.
are not those from bob mods?

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by ukezi »

mexmer wrote:
solntcev wrote:
jbtw wrote: I only see three sources of sulfur:
...
You are missing Nickel processing and advanced Lead processing. They both produce Sulfur Oxyde. It can be restored to Sulfur with Hydrogen.
are not those from bob mods?
your point? they are still there and are working fine. I have a massive sulfur overproduction out of waste water.

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Re: Development and Discussion

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ukezi wrote:
mexmer wrote:
solntcev wrote:
jbtw wrote: I only see three sources of sulfur:
...
You are missing Nickel processing and advanced Lead processing. They both produce Sulfur Oxyde. It can be restored to Sulfur with Hydrogen.
are not those from bob mods?
your point? they are still there and are working fine. I have a massive sulfur overproduction out of waste water.
point is, if OP doesn't use bob mods, he will not have this source of sulfur

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by solntcev »

mexmer wrote:...
point is, if OP doesn't use bob mods, he will not have this source of sulfur
OP plays with Bob's mods:
jbtw wrote:I've been playing a game with Bob's mods, Angels ores and petrochem, no biters, and alternate alien science.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by cdurgin »

Oh lawd. I don't think I can do this. I have everything set up for using Sulfuric acid and I'm already producing so much more sulfur than I use. If the acids are changed then I don't how wants going to happen. Is the only way to make HF acid gas or am I missing how to get Florine ore? Also, Making all that Cl is going to be a hugggggeeeee pain since I cant see how to make salt water other than water purification. Is there anyway we could get the option for switching back to H2SO4? Maybe a way to turn sulfur into acid gas. Love your work BTW

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Re: Development and Discussion

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cdurgin wrote:Oh lawd. I don't think I can do this. I have everything set up for using Sulfuric acid and I'm already producing so much more sulfur than I use. If the acids are changed then I don't how wants going to happen. Is the only way to make HF acid gas or am I missing how to get Florine ore? Also, Making all that Cl is going to be a hugggggeeeee pain since I cant see how to make salt water other than water purification. Is there anyway we could get the option for switching back to H2SO4? Maybe a way to turn sulfur into acid gas. Love your work BTW
Get fluid void and void chest instant. You really need them to avoid going nuts trying to deal with unbalanced outputs. If you can't find versions for 0.14 just edit the json. Then all you need is a pump (or overflow valve from flow control) set up to discharge excess and void chests that get fed into when storage is almost full.

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Re: Development and Discussion

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cdurgin wrote:Oh lawd. I don't think I can do this. I have everything set up for using Sulfuric acid and I'm already producing so much more sulfur than I use. If the acids are changed then I don't how wants going to happen. Is the only way to make HF acid gas or am I missing how to get Florine ore? Also, Making all that Cl is going to be a hugggggeeeee pain since I cant see how to make salt water other than water purification. Is there anyway we could get the option for switching back to H2SO4? Maybe a way to turn sulfur into acid gas. Love your work BTW
You will have a return cycle for each acid to waste water, like the sulfuric waste water has to sulfuric acid, only that the lines for the others acids vary. So the hydrochloric acid would yield saline water after the water treatment, was also thinking about adding sodium hydroxide back because it's basically the reversed reaction.
But I will add a trigger to disable the acid override.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by jbtw »

solntcev wrote:
jbtw wrote: I only see three sources of sulfur:
...
You are missing Nickel processing and advanced Lead processing. They both produce Sulfur Oxyde. It can be restored to Sulfur with Hydrogen.
I agree that those produce sulfur dioxide, but I don't see a way to convert that to sulfur. It can be combined with hydrogen to make sulfuric acid, but not sulfur.

Using the "What is it used for" mod I do see a recipe for sulfur from sulfur dioxide, but it's locked behind sulfur processing, and that tech doesn't seem to be accessible for me. I had assumed that it was disabled by Angel's petrochem. (Instead we have Sulfur Processing 1 and Sulfur Processing 2).

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by aklesey1 »

Question - why sulfur stack so small? - only 50 items............. iron stack has 200 items.... strange :(
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Re: Development and Discussion

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solntcev wrote:
mexmer wrote:...
point is, if OP doesn't use bob mods, he will not have this source of sulfur
OP plays with Bob's mods:
jbtw wrote:I've been playing a game with Bob's mods, Angels ores and petrochem, no biters, and alternate alien science.
i see, my bad then :oops:

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by mexmer »

Ratzap wrote:
cdurgin wrote:Oh lawd. I don't think I can do this. I have everything set up for using Sulfuric acid and I'm already producing so much more sulfur than I use. If the acids are changed then I don't how wants going to happen. Is the only way to make HF acid gas or am I missing how to get Florine ore? Also, Making all that Cl is going to be a hugggggeeeee pain since I cant see how to make salt water other than water purification. Is there anyway we could get the option for switching back to H2SO4? Maybe a way to turn sulfur into acid gas. Love your work BTW
Get fluid void and void chest instant. You really need them to avoid going nuts trying to deal with unbalanced outputs. If you can't find versions for 0.14 just edit the json. Then all you need is a pump (or overflow valve from flow control) set up to discharge excess and void chests that get fed into when storage is almost full.
why void chest? you have clarifier for "water" (in refininng), and "flare" for other fluids(in petrochem), since you mentioned overflow valve, you must have them.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Arch666Angel »

jbtw wrote:
solntcev wrote:
jbtw wrote: I only see three sources of sulfur:
...
You are missing Nickel processing and advanced Lead processing. They both produce Sulfur Oxyde. It can be restored to Sulfur with Hydrogen.
I agree that those produce sulfur dioxide, but I don't see a way to convert that to sulfur. It can be combined with hydrogen to make sulfuric acid, but not sulfur.

Using the "What is it used for" mod I do see a recipe for sulfur from sulfur dioxide, but it's locked behind sulfur processing, and that tech doesn't seem to be accessible for me. I had assumed that it was disabled by Angel's petrochem. (Instead we have Sulfur Processing 1 and Sulfur Processing 2).
The only thing you need sulfur for is producing sulfuric acid, if I'm not completely mistaken.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by Arch666Angel »

Infinite Ores
---0.4.4
-fixed vanilla spawning of angels infinite ores
-added dynamic localization for the description of the angels ores
-fixed bob gem-ore hardness and mining time

Refining
---0.4.1
-added missing migration
-changed mineralized water recipe to use water instead of purified water

Petrochem
---0.2.1
-added trigger to disable the acid override for refining
-added basic chemistry 2
-added chemical plant unlock to basic chemistry 2
-moved water electrolysis to basic chemistry 2
-moved purified water synthesis to basic chemistry 2
-moved calcium chloride recipe to basic chemistry 2

New:
Angel's Triggers - PetroChem - Disable Acid Override

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by orzelek »

aklesey1 wrote:Question - why sulfur stack so small? - only 50 items............. iron stack has 200 items.... strange :(
Yeah this is quite annoying - storing sulfur from water treatment seems to require a lot of space.

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Re: Development and Discussion

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orzelek wrote:
aklesey1 wrote:Question - why sulfur stack so small? - only 50 items............. iron stack has 200 items.... strange :(
Yeah this is quite annoying - storing sulfur from water treatment seems to require a lot of space.
Added changed stack size for the next one.

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Re: Development and Discussion

Post by aklesey1 »

Arch666Angel wrote: -changed mineralized water recipe to use water instead of purified water
Do you think this necessary change? there is no special difference all the same
But all seem to be okay
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