Hello, Ogro.

I don't disagree that an in-game calculator can be useful occasionally.

When I first started playing Factorio slightly over a decade ago, I didn't rely on an external tool/calculator/excel or anything because I was just starting out and doing simple stuff. I balanced the ratios ...

I am going to return to the topic of guidance on both quality and spoilage mechanics.

I had a chance to play a new game fairly recently. I was impressed with their guidance; I think some lessons from how it guides players could carry over to quality and spoilage mechanics.

This is an automation ...

You are, as a reflex, suggesting other people are off topic when you don't get your way.

I don't know why that is. But it's very easy to identify as a personal issue you have.

It is such a reflex that when we first discussed things even when I agreed with your premise you accused me of being off ...

I found it enlightening. "Quantity isn't quality" hits extra hard in this context.

What do you mean by "enlightening"?


Those are Gleba Science Pack biochambers with productivity modules, and the picture shows them producing 349 Gleba SPM steadily for hours.

They have beacons, in contrast to ...

You're not understanding my question, then. I was simply asking to try to understand who was who and who made what when. I don't know how or why I would be trying to "gotcha" anybody or anything. That really doesn't make any sense.

I don't know precisely why this happens, but it is a frequent ...

You seem like you know what you're doing. You're polite as someone who got a radically different product than they were expecting can be. The product is, by my own understanding, meant to be a challenging puzzle. Love to talk about how this stuff falls apart but hard to do that without a common set ...

Gleba Science Pack recipe resets freshness to 100%, regardless of the ingredient's freshness. [...]
Your response to both points indicates that you completely missed the point here.


The sheer audacity and irony in just those two sentences.
You come into this thread complaining for weeks, but ...

Vulcanus. Unlimited iron and copper. Both for use on Vulcanus and for exporting off-world.

Do I really need any other reasons?

What is the purpose of your list? What should someone do with it? And who is this someone? It's not meant to be a rhetoric question, it's not my intention to dismiss anything. But such a list is pointless if no one does anything with it.

The only use I see is to give the developers a hint what ...

Spoilage onboarding: As both Hurkyl and myself have pointed out: There is onboarding. There are trigger techs. By engaging with those, players will inevitably get to experience spoilage; immediately. And they will keep experiencing it after that.

Part of the spoilage onboarding experience unlocks ...

I am writing this post as succinctly as humanly possible. So I have to keep quotation blocks to a minimum and keep most responses limited to two paragraphs. The sole exception is the list, and it is already fairly short.



... let's give this one last good try:

What do you mean when you say ...

The pot calling the kettle black.

When people start to treat any slight meaningful criticism as "they must hate it", they lose the plot.

I have seen it happen before in other communities, and I am seeing some of the same patterns repeating.



Let's turn your argument around:
In my opinion ...

Spoilage has a poor introductory experience and struggles even more to teach people how to design properly.

That's not how I remember my first encounter with spoilage when I first arrived on Gleba. I had no trouble at all. I observed how my hand crafted intermediates all turned into spoilage ...

Forgive me, I'm working on responses slower because I'm busy.

There's a reason why I'm going "Wait, there's not actually a way to do about this" from the perspective of "optimization".

But there's a valid challenge there: what if you take away the language of stats or optimization, can you get ...

Having seen a lot of posts from people who have trouble with Gleba, here are a list of the issues I've seen people struggle with:

* Seed shortages, either due to lacking productivity or allowing fruit to spoil.

* The inconsistent nature of Agricultural tower harvesting and its effects on ...

That's a really astute observation about how these mechanics work. I think the intended analogue to that idea would be that people would be given the option of playing with the mechanic at chemical science.

And then... success!?

The practical reality is just different. When we ask that question ...

This is an interesting idea, but it lacks specifics (as it relates to quality). And those specifics are kind of important.

For example, I feel that the Tips&Tricks entries on quality are not just poor introductions to the concept, but they are actively harmful to properly building setups to ...

No. I said I took quality in the early game as a technical challenge. Said that you could build an experience that was rewarding every four hours or so out of that.

No one is disputing that people learn.

The lack of learning experience before using quality modules creates a mental attention tax ...

Consider:
Production science buys beacons. I cannot ship in beacons if I do not research that, which is what happens if someone tries the Rush to Space achievement. So. I can sell that no beacons + basic assemblers and modules, is a component of an achievement.

But saying it is easier than say ...

The complaint of the OP was that inserter and splitters work on normal quality as default, and they had to change filter settings to work on mixed quality as well. This is a non-issue, it's some new thing to do if you deal with mixed qualities. If you think about it, the default cannot be any ...